An update on Vortex development

[Vagent]

Vortex... what a terrible name. Can you imagine posting on a modding page about "Vortex"?

 

You'd feel like you were trapped in an 80s b-grade sci-fi shlocker.

[MarchinBunny]

In response to post #56028266. #56029941, #56037291, #56037296, #56037301, #56037306, #56037311, #56041476, #56088041, #56228386 are all replies on the same post.

ErusPrime wrote:

With the new mod manager will there be functionality for distributed modpacks via nexus? I know developers don't want third party distribution but nxm is the distribution. The entire system is already in place to have curated lists of mods and configurations that doesn't violate the distribution requirements of the author and gives a nice little one click instead of having to download manually, merge and patch, load order, CTD, google it, find nothing helpful, ask on reddit/discord/forums, get told to google it, say f*#@ it and go play something else.

Ethreon wrote: Mod packages are not allowed according to the rules, not because of technical limitations.

ErusPrime wrote: I feel like you don't understand what I mean when I say mod pack. What I mean when I say mod pack is that nexus has the technology in place to create curated collections of mods without changing distribution. Say I want all the Sim Settlements mods. I go to each page, hit download, configure and load order and all that stuff. With a collection, you only have to distribute the links. A list of those links in a format readable by vortex. One click, all the mods, no broken rules.

Ethreon wrote: If you are posting, press Submit once and wait. This isn't a bug, just server lag.

Mod packs are not allowed, regardless of what you want to call them or how you think they should be done. Even if they were to pursue this and now allow it, what you want would simply not work.

Syfexx wrote: Why wouldnt it work ? i cant see how a collection of mods that work together that can be downloaded with the click of a single button wouldnt work? i doubt any author would have problems letting ppl link their mods for a vortex readable format.

HardRain1911 wrote: I understand exactly what you mean by "modpacks," basically what steam workshop does. From my understanding the tech can do that with Nexus and Vortex.
But I believe what they are saying in their rude way is that feature would 1. be against the rulebook/terms and conditions of Nexus and 2. would possibly infringe on Steams territory as a third party distributor thus risking steam taking action against Nexus as they have a gentlemen's agreement to stay to each others side of the gaming sandbox.

@Ethreon
"Even if they were to pursue this and now allow it, what you want would simply not work."

I would like to present to you curseforge.com, it's quite literally possible and the mod developers for Minecraft have been doing something like this for ages. How it works is all the mods are on curseforge. On their client, people can install mods directly from it. They can configure everything how they like and if they want they can export it which will create a zip file that contains a list of all the mods needed, and any configuration files. From there, you upload it to curse forge give it a name, and wait for your pack to be approved. Once approved anyone using the curse client can install the pack and it will grab all the mods from curseforge as well as all the configuration files that were provided in the zip.

When you say it wouldn't work, you are simply wrong. It's actually a very good system. It allows those who are good at modding and testing to make packs that will work for anyone with the click of a button. I don't see any reason why this should not be allowed here, considering all the mods would come from here and wouldn't literally be included in the pack files itself, just a list would and the client grabs the mods on the list from the official download links like it normally would.

Think of it like a script that just goes through a list and downloads the mods one by one.

Also, yes steam workshop has a pretty similar system. It's time to get with the times. We need mod packs. Mod creators in the Skyrim community really should want this too as it's going to greatly reduce the amount of technical support they will have to give. If people download a pack that works and has already been checked for compatibility and such, they are less likely to run into issues than if they did it themselves.

If anyone is agaisnt this, then they really need to give a pretty good reason as to why they wouldn't want this.

[MarchinBunny]

In response to post #56088421. #56101751 is also a reply to the same post.

tajetaje wrote: OK, this is kind of a repost/summation of all the "modpack" comments so far but here it goes:
It seems that the most functional application of this idea is to have a simple text file or the like, formatted so that vortex can read it, with direct download links that could simply be fed into vortex's download manager. A simple handler for mods that have been removed is all that might be required to address the problem of pulled mods. I, as a semi-decent programmer, see no issue with this whatsoever, nor a rule conflict present.

Behelit79 wrote: Don't know, all this "modpack" thing seems to me just an extreme lazy feat. No offense but there is already an horde of people that doesn't even read mod descriptions, give them a list with just direct download links and they wouldn't even visit the mods pages anymore.

+Behelit79
It's not about being lazy, it's about ease of use. Not everyone has the time to create extensive load orders checking for problems and such reading through tons of documentation just to make sure one mod is compatible with another,

Yes, you are right people who download these packs are unlikely to read any documentation, but that is fine because that is meant to be done by the pack creator. The best example I can show of such a system like this working is for Minecraft. They have been literally doing it for years. Curse Forge. Keeping in mind Minecraft is far more difficult to mod than Skyrim is and the system works absolutely fine.

[acidzebra]

 

If anyone is agaisnt this, then they really need to give a pretty good reason as to why they wouldn't want this.

 

Well, if the authors don't want it, that's their choice. Right?

 

Personally I don't care much either way, I put my stuff on the internet and wished it bon voyage. But not everyone is like that, and if you appreciate the works of those people and want to see more of their output, you should probably respect that.

 

One thought I have is that minecraft and TES games are very different beasts in terms of complexity and if you think you can load up 150 mods and go off on merry adventures in any TES game just by clicking a button and then everything will be fine then you are deluding yourself. For reference, see the skyrim tech support section of the forums. And that's before even considering different versions of mods and patches being released and older versions becoming unavailable (unless again you are prepared to disregard some author's wishes and just reupload at will). And THAT is just the least of the problems I can think of with TES modpacks.

 

 

 

Not everyone has the time to create extensive load orders checking for problems and such reading through tons of documentation just to make sure one mod is compatible with another,

 

Nobody who pours hundreds/thousands of hours into playing videogames should be able to say this with a straight face. It's laziness and nothing more.

 

It's hard for me to have sympathy with a culture where an author spends countless hours on their work but a consumer can't even be arsed to take 2 minutes to read a description page to understand how to install something and just wants "teh modz". And for me that is the opposite of why I mod games - I mod because I want something changed in game(s) according to my tastes, not a whole slew of changes that are good according to someone else's taste. It's a very personal thing, not a "press button to make good" thing. Unless you're lazy AND unimaginative.

[MarchinBunny]

In response to post #56306111.

"Well, if the authors don't want it, that's their choice. Right?"

 

I disagree. I don't see why they would have any more say than any other person here. It's not like anything is drastically changing. The mods would still come from the same source, it just takes far less time, and will help far more people. If they don't want such a system that would be awfully selfish of them.

" But not everyone is like that, and if you appreciate the works of those people and want to see more of their output, you should probably respect that."

 

Their stuff isn't going anywhere, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

"One thought I have is that minecraft and TES games are very different beasts in terms of complexity and if you think you can load up 150 mods and go off on merry adventures in any TES game just by clicking a button and then everything will be fine then you are deluding yourself."

 

You are right, go mod Minecraft manually and come back here and say the same thing. It's far more complex than Skyrim. You think modding Skyrim is time-consuming and difficult, seriously, go try creating a load order in Minecraft. You will be spending months if you want to make a good pack, just to warn you because each mod has its own configuration file. Then you have to deal with recipe conflicts. Sometimes you even will need to know how to script if you want to do anything more complex like changing loot tables.

So no, I am not deluding myself because there is literally an example of this working for a game with modding far more complex than Skyrim.

"It's also hard for me to have sympathy with a culture where an author spends countless hours on their work but a consumer can't even be arsed to take 2 minutes to read a description page to understand how to install something and just wants "teh modz" but that's a different discussion, but yes, it's lazy."

 

It doesn't take just 2 minutes, you are kidding yourself. And them creating mods isn't a good excuse not to make things easier on people. When I create content, I don't tell people they need to stand on one leg to view it. If I find an easy way for them to consume the content I create, I do pursue it because I'm not stuck up. Creating content doesn't entitle me to tell people how they should view content or consume it. I create the content because I wanted to, not for anything in return or to expect people to do anything for me. And yes, I am a content creator, an artist specifically. Used to be a mod developer back in the day during half-life and a little bit into half-life 2.

"For me that is the opposite of why I mod games - I mod because I want something changed in game(s) according to my tastes, not a whole slew of changes that are good according to someone else's taste"

 

Good for you, now it's time to respect other people who don't mind if they install mods by someone else's taste. Never heard of STEP?

"It's a very personal thing, not a "press button to make good" thing."

 

For you maybe. But stop trying to force you values onto others.

"Unless you're lazy AND unimaginative."

 

Sure, great arguments. >.>
Wahhh do things the way I like to do them cause ... reasons.

"Nobody who pours hundreds/thousands of hours into playing videogames should be able to say this with a straight face. It's laziness and nothing more."

 

Not everyone does pour hundred and thousands of hours into gaming. Some people like to play a few hours here and there, and simply may not have the time to go creating some extensive load order for Skyrim, and so instead they just play other games. To me, it sounds like you are quite the selfish person incapable of understanding other peoples different circumstances and seem to expect everyone to think and be just like you.

Which is sad. You really should consider other peoples views instead of popping a squat and taking a s*** all over it just because you personally feel modding is a personal matter. Funny thing is ... I love modding, so I agree with you about it being personal. But unlike you, I also know how to understand the differences between people and their different circumstances.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Brabbit1987

[acidzebra]

 

To me, it sounds like you are quite the selfish person incapable of understanding other peoples different circumstances and seem to expect everyone to think and be just like you.

Which is sad.

And yet you're perfectly willing to ignore the wishes of content creators while telling me I'm selfish and force my values on others. Hilarious, as funny as the "I have time to game but no time to read instructions" BS.

 

[Ethreon]

In response to post #56306111. #56306391 is also a reply to the same post.

acidzebra wrote:

 

If anyone is agaisnt this, then they really need to give a pretty good reason as to why they wouldn't want this.

 

Well, if the authors don't want it, that's their choice. Right?

 

Personally I don't care much either way, I put my stuff on the internet and wished it bon voyage. But not everyone is like that, and if you appreciate the works of those people and want to see more of their output, you should probably respect that.

 

One thought I have is that minecraft and TES games are very different beasts in terms of complexity and if you think you can load up 150 mods and go off on merry adventures in any TES game just by clicking a button and then everything will be fine then you are deluding yourself. For reference, see the skyrim tech support section of the forums. And that's before even considering different versions of mods and patches being released and older versions becoming unavailable (unless again you are prepared to disregard some author's wishes and just reupload at will). And THAT is just the least of the problems I can think of with TES modpacks.

 

 

 

Not everyone has the time to create extensive load orders checking for problems and such reading through tons of documentation just to make sure one mod is compatible with another,

 

Nobody who pours hundreds/thousands of hours into playing videogames should be able to say this with a straight face. It's laziness and nothing more.

 

It's hard for me to have sympathy with a culture where an author spends countless hours on their work but a consumer can't even be arsed to take 2 minutes to read a description page to understand how to install something and just wants "teh modz". And for me that is the opposite of why I mod games - I mod because I want something changed in game(s) according to my tastes, not a whole slew of changes that are good according to someone else's taste. It's a very personal thing, not a "press button to make good" thing. Unless you're lazy AND unimaginative.

Brabbit1987 wrote:

In response to post #56306111.

"Well, if the authors don't want it, that's their choice. Right?"

 

I disagree. I don't see why they would have any more say than any other person here. It's not like anything is drastically changing. The mods would still come from the same source, it just takes far less time, and will help far more people. If they don't want such a system that would be awfully selfish of them.

" But not everyone is like that, and if you appreciate the works of those people and want to see more of their output, you should probably respect that."

 

Their stuff isn't going anywhere, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

"One thought I have is that minecraft and TES games are very different beasts in terms of complexity and if you think you can load up 150 mods and go off on merry adventures in any TES game just by clicking a button and then everything will be fine then you are deluding yourself."

 

You are right, go mod Minecraft manually and come back here and say the same thing. It's far more complex than Skyrim. You think modding Skyrim is time-consuming and difficult, seriously, go try creating a load order in Minecraft. You will be spending months if you want to make a good pack, just to warn you because each mod has its own configuration file. Then you have to deal with recipe conflicts. Sometimes you even will need to know how to script if you want to do anything more complex like changing loot tables.

So no, I am not deluding myself because there is literally an example of this working for a game with modding far more complex than Skyrim.

"It's also hard for me to have sympathy with a culture where an author spends countless hours on their work but a consumer can't even be arsed to take 2 minutes to read a description page to understand how to install something and just wants "teh modz" but that's a different discussion, but yes, it's lazy."

 

It doesn't take just 2 minutes, you are kidding yourself. And them creating mods isn't a good excuse not to make things easier on people. When I create content, I don't tell people they need to stand on one leg to view it. If I find an easy way for them to consume the content I create, I do pursue it because I'm not stuck up. Creating content doesn't entitle me to tell people how they should view content or consume it. I create the content because I wanted to, not for anything in return or to expect people to do anything for me. And yes, I am a content creator, an artist specifically. Used to be a mod developer back in the day during half-life and a little bit into half-life 2.

"For me that is the opposite of why I mod games - I mod because I want something changed in game(s) according to my tastes, not a whole slew of changes that are good according to someone else's taste"

 

Good for you, now it's time to respect other people who don't mind if they install mods by someone else's taste. Never heard of STEP?

"It's a very personal thing, not a "press button to make good" thing."

 

For you maybe. But stop trying to force you values onto others.

"Unless you're lazy AND unimaginative."

 

Sure, great arguments. >.>
Wahhh do things the way I like to do them cause ... reasons.

"Nobody who pours hundreds/thousands of hours into playing videogames should be able to say this with a straight face. It's laziness and nothing more."

 

Not everyone does pour hundred and thousands of hours into gaming. Some people like to play a few hours here and there, and simply may not have the time to go creating some extensive load order for Skyrim, and so instead they just play other games. To me, it sounds like you are quite the selfish person incapable of understanding other peoples different circumstances and seem to expect everyone to think and be just like you.

Which is sad. You really should consider other peoples views instead of popping a squat and taking a s*** all over it just because you personally feel modding is a personal matter. Funny thing is ... I love modding, so I agree with you about it being personal. But unlike you, I also know how to understand the differences between people and their different circumstances.

1. Learn to use spoiler tags. Nobody wants to scroll 10 years cause you like to quote the whole of Iliad.
2. Minecraft is not Mass Effect, nor is it Skyrim or Fallout or Dragon Age, or the hundred other games that can be modded here. So no, a 1-click lazy button won't do anyone any good.
3. If you're unwilling to put the work into making your game's mod list work correctly, then perhaps consider not modding.

Minecraft is complicated, not complex. Not quite the same horse.

[sopmac45]

In response to post #56306111. #56306391, #56307021 are all replies on the same post.

acidzebra wrote:

 

If anyone is agaisnt this, then they really need to give a pretty good reason as to why they wouldn't want this.

 

Well, if the authors don't want it, that's their choice. Right?

 

Personally I don't care much either way, I put my stuff on the internet and wished it bon voyage. But not everyone is like that, and if you appreciate the works of those people and want to see more of their output, you should probably respect that.

 

One thought I have is that minecraft and TES games are very different beasts in terms of complexity and if you think you can load up 150 mods and go off on merry adventures in any TES game just by clicking a button and then everything will be fine then you are deluding yourself. For reference, see the skyrim tech support section of the forums. And that's before even considering different versions of mods and patches being released and older versions becoming unavailable (unless again you are prepared to disregard some author's wishes and just reupload at will). And THAT is just the least of the problems I can think of with TES modpacks.

 

 

 

Not everyone has the time to create extensive load orders checking for problems and such reading through tons of documentation just to make sure one mod is compatible with another,

 

Nobody who pours hundreds/thousands of hours into playing videogames should be able to say this with a straight face. It's laziness and nothing more.

 

It's hard for me to have sympathy with a culture where an author spends countless hours on their work but a consumer can't even be arsed to take 2 minutes to read a description page to understand how to install something and just wants "teh modz". And for me that is the opposite of why I mod games - I mod because I want something changed in game(s) according to my tastes, not a whole slew of changes that are good according to someone else's taste. It's a very personal thing, not a "press button to make good" thing. Unless you're lazy AND unimaginative.

Brabbit1987 wrote:

In response to post #56306111.

"Well, if the authors don't want it, that's their choice. Right?"

 

I disagree. I don't see why they would have any more say than any other person here. It's not like anything is drastically changing. The mods would still come from the same source, it just takes far less time, and will help far more people. If they don't want such a system that would be awfully selfish of them.

" But not everyone is like that, and if you appreciate the works of those people and want to see more of their output, you should probably respect that."

 

Their stuff isn't going anywhere, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

"One thought I have is that minecraft and TES games are very different beasts in terms of complexity and if you think you can load up 150 mods and go off on merry adventures in any TES game just by clicking a button and then everything will be fine then you are deluding yourself."

 

You are right, go mod Minecraft manually and come back here and say the same thing. It's far more complex than Skyrim. You think modding Skyrim is time-consuming and difficult, seriously, go try creating a load order in Minecraft. You will be spending months if you want to make a good pack, just to warn you because each mod has its own configuration file. Then you have to deal with recipe conflicts. Sometimes you even will need to know how to script if you want to do anything more complex like changing loot tables.

So no, I am not deluding myself because there is literally an example of this working for a game with modding far more complex than Skyrim.

"It's also hard for me to have sympathy with a culture where an author spends countless hours on their work but a consumer can't even be arsed to take 2 minutes to read a description page to understand how to install something and just wants "teh modz" but that's a different discussion, but yes, it's lazy."

 

It doesn't take just 2 minutes, you are kidding yourself. And them creating mods isn't a good excuse not to make things easier on people. When I create content, I don't tell people they need to stand on one leg to view it. If I find an easy way for them to consume the content I create, I do pursue it because I'm not stuck up. Creating content doesn't entitle me to tell people how they should view content or consume it. I create the content because I wanted to, not for anything in return or to expect people to do anything for me. And yes, I am a content creator, an artist specifically. Used to be a mod developer back in the day during half-life and a little bit into half-life 2.

"For me that is the opposite of why I mod games - I mod because I want something changed in game(s) according to my tastes, not a whole slew of changes that are good according to someone else's taste"

 

Good for you, now it's time to respect other people who don't mind if they install mods by someone else's taste. Never heard of STEP?

"It's a very personal thing, not a "press button to make good" thing."

 

For you maybe. But stop trying to force you values onto others.

"Unless you're lazy AND unimaginative."

 

Sure, great arguments. >.>
Wahhh do things the way I like to do them cause ... reasons.

"Nobody who pours hundreds/thousands of hours into playing videogames should be able to say this with a straight face. It's laziness and nothing more."

 

Not everyone does pour hundred and thousands of hours into gaming. Some people like to play a few hours here and there, and simply may not have the time to go creating some extensive load order for Skyrim, and so instead they just play other games. To me, it sounds like you are quite the selfish person incapable of understanding other peoples different circumstances and seem to expect everyone to think and be just like you.

Which is sad. You really should consider other peoples views instead of popping a squat and taking a s*** all over it just because you personally feel modding is a personal matter. Funny thing is ... I love modding, so I agree with you about it being personal. But unlike you, I also know how to understand the differences between people and their different circumstances.

Ethreon wrote: 1. Learn to use spoiler tags. Nobody wants to scroll 10 years cause you like to quote the whole of Iliad.
2. Minecraft is not Mass Effect, nor is it Skyrim or Fallout or Dragon Age, or the hundred other games that can be modded here. So no, a 1-click lazy button won't do anyone any good.
3. If you're unwilling to put the work into making your game's mod list work correctly, then perhaps consider not modding.

Minecraft is complicated, not complex. Not quite the same horse.

Personally I do not create an extensive load order just for the heck of it and matter of fact, in my FO4 I only have 70 mods and I choose what will make my game be much better and must be mods that I cannot do myself, simply because I am not that knowledgable yet ( I have created some custom mods already for myself ) and I read every single description and posts before I download/install a mod, so I agree that some players out there are lazy and they would just want to push a button and voila ... the load order is perfect and go ahead and play ....

.. but the coin has two sides; on the other side I have found mods with zero suggestions about load order / compatibility so you need to ask, investigate and sometimes, you do not get the answer that quick and sometimes not at all and that is not nice. Learning how to use FO4Edit has been a challenge for me but I like to learn and investigate. There are some video tutorials out there about how to handle this tool but they are not specific, they leave you with the taste to learn but at the same time, they do not teach you the STEPS, my point is that even though I appreciate the job done by modders, some of them are lazy by not advising about some important stuff like load order and compatibility and so far, I have not found any professional modder that has taken his/her time to teach the community how to use ( step by step ) FO4Edit. You could be the most knowledgeable person in this world about FO4Edit but if you do not know pedagogy, then you won't be able to properly teach anybody.

Is someone obligated to do this ? No really, but modders create their mods because they love art and like to help the community, so why not a very specific tutorial on how to use mods via FO4Edit ? When you start working with this tool and you do not have any idea how to do this or that ( and I understand trial and error ), you simply give up, especially when you try to find answers by asking and you do not get them, so that is PROBABLY why some players are just "lazy" and would like just to push a button, get a perfect load order and play.

Personally, despite my intention to learn as much as I can about FO4Edit ( so I can make my load order very compatible and have almost a perfect experience and also in the future, be able to create some mods for the community ), I would like Vortex to integrate what LOOT does and more if it is possible. I do not know, I am not a professional programmer and I do not know if it is possible to have Vortex to sort our load order and place mods by categories that have been advised extensively in the net about load orders ( Bug fixes first, Settlements second, etc, etc, etc. ) so at least that way, people will have from the very beginning, a load order setup in the proper way which would not mean at all, that all conflicts between mods would be resolved ( I would also like to have that ... and you can call me lazy - even though I am not - ), so still, the player would have to do his/her part by reading mod description and manually move some mods to the position in the load order, previously advised by the author.

A few years ago, we did not have cars with cruise control; now, it is kind of standard feature and it is nice to have it so you can relax your foot when you are driving for extensive hours .... well, same principle with Vortex. NMM is very good but if Vortex has some capabilities that everybody would love like sorting load orders, clean master files ( what LOOT does ), capable to let us delete mods mid game or add them and replacing them in the right load order, etc, etc ... then Vortex will be the north star of the entire community. Again, I am not a professional programmer and I am just thinking so bear with me if you believe that I am asking something impossible and if so, please give me your insight and teach me so I will be very happy to listen and learn. Edited December 28, 2017 by sopmac45

[MarchinBunny]

 

In response to post #56306111. #56306391 is also a reply to the same post.

 

 

 

acidzebra wrote:

If anyone is agaisnt this, then they really need to give a pretty good reason as to why they wouldn't want this.

Well, if the authors don't want it, that's their choice. Right?

Personally I don't care much either way, I put my stuff on the internet and wished it bon voyage. But not everyone is like that, and if you appreciate the works of those people and want to see more of their output, you should probably respect that.

One thought I have is that minecraft and TES games are very different beasts in terms of complexity and if you think you can load up 150 mods and go off on merry adventures in any TES game just by clicking a button and then everything will be fine then you are deluding yourself. For reference, see the skyrim tech support section of the forums. And that's before even considering different versions of mods and patches being released and older versions becoming unavailable (unless again you are prepared to disregard some author's wishes and just reupload at will). And THAT is just the least of the problems I can think of with TES modpacks.

Not everyone has the time to create extensive load orders checking for problems and such reading through tons of documentation just to make sure one mod is compatible with another,

Nobody who pours hundreds/thousands of hours into playing videogames should be able to say this with a straight face. It's laziness and nothing more.

It's hard for me to have sympathy with a culture where an author spends countless hours on their work but a consumer can't even be arsed to take 2 minutes to read a description page to understand how to install something and just wants "teh modz". And for me that is the opposite of why I mod games - I mod because I want something changed in game(s) according to my tastes, not a whole slew of changes that are good according to someone else's taste. It's a very personal thing, not a "press button to make good" thing. Unless you're lazy AND unimaginative.

Brabbit1987 wrote:

In response to post #56306111.

 

I disagree. I don't see why they would have any more say than any other person here. It's not like anything is drastically changing. The mods would still come from the same source, it just takes far less time, and will help far more people. If they don't want such a system that would be awfully selfish of them.

"Well, if the authors don't want it, that's their choice. Right?"

Their stuff isn't going anywhere, so I have no idea what you are talking about.

" But not everyone is like that, and if you appreciate the works of those people and want to see more of their output, you should probably respect that."

You are right, go mod Minecraft manually and come back here and say the same thing. It's far more complex than Skyrim. You think modding Skyrim is time-consuming and difficult, seriously, go try creating a load order in Minecraft. You will be spending months if you want to make a good pack, just to warn you because each mod has its own configuration file. Then you have to deal with recipe conflicts. Sometimes you even will need to know how to script if you want to do anything more complex like changing loot tables.

 

So no, I am not deluding myself because there is literally an example of this working for a game with modding far more complex than Skyrim.

"One thought I have is that minecraft and TES games are very different beasts in terms of complexity and if you think you can load up 150 mods and go off on merry adventures in any TES game just by clicking a button and then everything will be fine then you are deluding yourself."

It doesn't take just 2 minutes, you are kidding yourself. And them creating mods isn't a good excuse not to make things easier on people. When I create content, I don't tell people they need to stand on one leg to view it. If I find an easy way for them to consume the content I create, I do pursue it because I'm not stuck up. Creating content doesn't entitle me to tell people how they should view content or consume it. I create the content because I wanted to, not for anything in return or to expect people to do anything for me. And yes, I am a content creator, an artist specifically. Used to be a mod developer back in the day during half-life and a little bit into half-life 2.

"It's also hard for me to have sympathy with a culture where an author spends countless hours on their work but a consumer can't even be arsed to take 2 minutes to read a description page to understand how to install something and just wants "teh modz" but that's a different discussion, but yes, it's lazy."

Good for you, now it's time to respect other people who don't mind if they install mods by someone else's taste. Never heard of STEP?

"For me that is the opposite of why I mod games - I mod because I want something changed in game(s) according to my tastes, not a whole slew of changes that are good according to someone else's taste"

For you maybe. But stop trying to force you values onto others.

"It's a very personal thing, not a "press button to make good" thing."

Sure, great arguments. >.>

Wahhh do things the way I like to do them cause ... reasons.

"Unless you're lazy AND unimaginative."

Not everyone does pour hundred and thousands of hours into gaming. Some people like to play a few hours here and there, and simply may not have the time to go creating some extensive load order for Skyrim, and so instead they just play other games. To me, it sounds like you are quite the selfish person incapable of understanding other peoples different circumstances and seem to expect everyone to think and be just like you.

 

Which is sad. You really should consider other peoples views instead of popping a squat and taking a s*** all over it just because you personally feel modding is a personal matter. Funny thing is ... I love modding, so I agree with you about it being personal. But unlike you, I also know how to understand the differences between people and their different circumstances."Nobody who pours hundreds/thousands of hours into playing videogames should be able to say this with a straight face. It's laziness and nothing more."

1. Learn to use spoiler tags. Nobody wants to scroll 10 years cause you like to quote the whole of Iliad.

2. Minecraft is not Mass Effect, nor is it Skyrim or Fallout or Dragon Age, or the hundred other games that can be modded here. So no, a 1-click lazy button won't do anyone any good.

3. If you're unwilling to put the work into making your game's mod list work correctly, then perhaps consider not modding.

 

Minecraft is complicated, not complex. Not quite the same horse.

 

1. Not really a big deal. Wasn't that long, scrolling a few seconds isn't really the same as 10 years. I could understand you pointing this out if it was a much much longer post.

2. You didn't even explain why. All you did was list other games with mods that are not Minecraft as if that is somehow an argument for not being able to do it. You really need to learn how to make a valid argument. Any game pretty much has the capability to do mod packs simply because it's programmable it's not even that complicated to do really as I have already explained an example of it being done. The reason it is done for Minecraft is because of how complex modding is manually. Considering Skyrim has a similar issue, it can most certainly benefit from such a system.

3. Or we could just make it easier as we have been talking about. Seriously, you have some serious issues if you have a problem with just making a process easier for people. I can't believe anyone would argue against ease of use. Please don't ever get into software development you would fail miserably. This reminds me of an old person arguing how back in their day they had to walk 15 miles. It's honestly such a stupid argument. If you can't walk the 15 miles to the store, then perhaps consider not going. Uhh ... no .. think I'm going to use my car because I'm not stupid and don't HAVE to walk.

 

If Minecraft is complicated and not quite complex then the same applies to Skyrim. You are not making an argument here you are just correcting the word we have been using.

 

Quitte frankly, I would actually love to see you make a valid argument instead of replying to people who want such a feature like as if your opinion on the matter is more important. If you can't even provide any good reason for why this feature should not exist, then all you are doing is wasting everyone's time here by arguing against something that would benefit a lot of people. For no other reason than to be a hateful person. It's a very elitist attitude.

 

Ya, let's go back to the old days because if you can't do it the hard way, you shouldn't be able to do it at all. Great logic there. Gold star for you.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Brabbit1987

[Ultros7]

In response to post #56088421. #56101751, #56306091 are all replies on the same post.

tajetaje wrote: OK, this is kind of a repost/summation of all the "modpack" comments so far but here it goes:
It seems that the most functional application of this idea is to have a simple text file or the like, formatted so that vortex can read it, with direct download links that could simply be fed into vortex's download manager. A simple handler for mods that have been removed is all that might be required to address the problem of pulled mods. I, as a semi-decent programmer, see no issue with this whatsoever, nor a rule conflict present.

Behelit79 wrote: Don't know, all this "modpack" thing seems to me just an extreme lazy feat. No offense but there is already an horde of people that doesn't even read mod descriptions, give them a list with just direct download links and they wouldn't even visit the mods pages anymore.

Brabbit1987 wrote: +Behelit79
It's not about being lazy, it's about ease of use. Not everyone has the time to create extensive load orders checking for problems and such reading through tons of documentation just to make sure one mod is compatible with another,

Yes, you are right people who download these packs are unlikely to read any documentation, but that is fine because that is meant to be done by the pack creator. The best example I can show of such a system like this working is for Minecraft. They have been literally doing it for years. Curse Forge. Keeping in mind Minecraft is far more difficult to mod than Skyrim is and the system works absolutely fine.

Modpacks are a good idea and would vastly improve the accessibility of modding Skyrim.

The compatibility issues that would arise aren't a good argument against it simply because that work would fall on modpack authors, they'd have to sort all of that out including their own patches if necessary, then the end user can just install it. It's better than the current system of having every single end user go through the nightmare of getting a stable load order, it's the one thing preventing people from getting into modded Skyrim. You have no idea how many people I've seen who just play vanilla or only use texture/ENB mods because they'd rather not deal with the hassle.
The best "install guides" out there like STEP are still too complicated for most people, and too time consuming. A real infrastructure on a mod client to automate the biggest chunks of the process, or ANY of it at all, would be greatly welcome.

This pushback against progress is not healthy, and I hope whatever's driving people to be selfish and/or elitist like this fades out eventually. If it doesn't, well you're going to have competitors rising up and no amount of bitching about people "stealing mods" will stop them.
Users want the most convenient way of doing things, if it exists they'll go for it and if it doesn't exist someone will be motivated to create it. You either move with the times or get left behind.