Sacremas Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 In response to post #56081816. #56081971, #56082201, #56082696, #56082916, #56083201, #56083376, #56083496, #56083506, #56085356, #56086431 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote literallybyronic wrote: I feel like this may cause a bit of strife in mod authors who do large mods or compilations. For instance, my most popular mod is NPC replacers and presets for now going on 11 characters, but they are installed via a FOMOD which is one file on one mod page that lets you pick and choose who you want to install. It's far easier for mod users to use that way but with this points system it actually hurts me to do it that way when I could make a separate mod page for each character and potentially get up to 11 unique downloads from the same user instead of one. This wouldn't really fall under the "milking the patch from a separate page" idea since I'd say at least half of the current NPC replacer mod library on Nexus are single characters so you couldn't really fault someone for releasing them as such. Not just in my own situation either, but let's say the author of Beantown Interiors decided to release their work neighbourhood by neighbourhood instead of an all in one, or like Vivid Landscapes is an AIO now, when they used to be separate downloads for terrain, foliage, roads, etc. Even if these mods were divvied up into categorized segments they would still each be standalone mods in their own right. so not really the same as making a small patch its own page. I don't really know what the best way to deal with this would be tbh but I have a feeling it's going to ruffle some feathers no matter what. Quote ousnius wrote: Each character individually doesn't necessarily give you more total unique downloads , unless you have thousands of fans that download all of your mods, or all of them get into hot files, in which case it's a good thing for you. Quote literallybyronic wrote: "The metric we are using is the unique download count for a user's mod pages as a whole. Note that this is different from the unique download counts for the individual files you can download from a mod page. For example, if you have 14 files available to download on a single mod page and a user downloads each of those files, your unique download counter is increased by 1, and not 14." So, if I'm understanding this correctly, if I have 5 files on one page, and all 5 get downloaded, each file gets 1 unique download but the PAGE only gets 1 unique download for all 5. If I have 5 files on 5 different pages, both each file and each page itself get 1 unique download. As the metric is the PAGE'S unique downloads, having separate pages for each mod (or segment thereof) could increase the unique download count the points system will be using as a metric. If what I'm describing weren't the case and the "unique download" was 1 per downloader per uploader, so if I have 20 files on 20 pages and someone downloads all 20 and I only get 1 unique download because it's counted per user and not per page, the issue mentioned further down the article about people releasing small patches etc on separate pages wouldn't matter. Quote willyb9 wrote: i'm a little curious how this would work for updated files as well, like updates to fix bugs with mods or add or change things with a new main file for example. if a user downloads the original, and later the new file, would those be considered separate unique downloads i assume?anyways, seems like a great idea imo. very well thought out and seems more comprehensive than anything i've seen suggested before. Quote literallybyronic wrote: From what I understand of the system, as long as they are on the same main mod page, one user can only ever produce one unique download for anything on that page in the metric the points use (per page), even if each file on the page gets its own unique download for each new file. Unique downloads per file and per page are two separate metrics. So you'd have to make each update to a fresh page which I'm sure wouldn't fly with staff. But if it's something that can be divided into standalone segments that could potentially each warrant their own page (different characters, different areas, ENBs with multiple presets like CFL or Grim & Somber, etc), it's not something you could really argue against but would obviously benefit the author to release each segment on its own page. Quote willyb9 wrote: ok that makes sense. thanks for clearing that up for me! Quote literallybyronic wrote: Yeah, it's a bit easy to muddle up which is why I'm asking for clarification, I could still be wrong but hopefully Robin or someone from staff will jump in and clear it up if I am. Quote literallybyronic wrote: Also, mod authors could potentially receive a "new" unique download if a user who has already downloaded a file before the mod was opted in downloads a new version after the mod has opted in, that would seem more fair as some bigger mods have crazy amounts of downloads already that they would lose out on. But, from how it's being described it seems like they wouldn't receive any further credit from the same user if that user already gave them a unique download in the past, although I'm not 100% sure on this part either. That may be something they just can't track. Quote literallybyronic wrote: edit: oops, double post Quote Xander9009 wrote: The chosen method isn't fair to everyone. It's as fair as possible to as many people as possible. I remember the thread where we were all discussing this idea and how best to implement it, and there simply isn't a better way to handle it, unfortunately. Quote steve40 wrote: Why bother gaming the system. The size of the rewards we're talking about here is approximately a cup of coffee per month. It won't exactly pay the bills.There's some good points here. Let's take Bijin Warmaidens, likely the most downloaded (495k uniques) appearance overhaul type mod overall, featuring 22 characters in 1 esp, where under these rules it would have been more tempting to release each of them separately on 22 pages with 22 esps and tell the user to merge them themselves if they wish, aside from the hassle of setting up those pages and such of course. Though on the other hand the fact that it's 22 characters probably contributed somewhat to the high number of downloads.There could also be some incentive here to abandon popular mods and make a new one with varations instead of updating the existing one if the mod author is someone who could likely regain a lot of that popularity. And ironically I've been wanting EnaiSiaion to do exactly that instead of completely revising Ordinator (again) for quite some time now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElRizzo Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 In response to post #56081601. #56081651, #56083286, #56083436 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Moksha8088 wrote: Will this proposed recognition be for new mods only or will it extend to established mods? It would be nice to see mod authors receive more than simple praise. Their labors have given us joy and keep us coming back to this site. Quote Dark0ne wrote: Mod authors can opt-in old or new mods alike at their own discretion, but they will not receive Donation Points retrospectively e.g. for unique downloads they've accumulated before the month they opt-in. Hopefully for obvious reasons! Quote Moksha8088 wrote: Too bad it cannot reward the mods that most of us use since we have already downloaded and endorsed them long ago and will remain on our systems for future playthroughs.Will authors benefit from updating their mods? Quote ousnius wrote: Yes, as that counts for a new unique download in the respective month.EDIT: I got told I was wrong, it's only for new unique downloads total, not in the current month. Quote Too bad it cannot reward the mods that most of us use since we have already downloaded and endorsed them long ago and will remain on our systems for future playthroughs.Sure you can, it is called the donations button ;) This new system will be in addition to the donation system in place, not a replacer (at least that is how I understand it), so for mods you are already using and that you think deserve more than an endorsement, just donate the author some bucks directly :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
femshepping Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I think this is a cool idea! And it’s nice that it’s opt in/out so people that don’t like it for whatever reason aren’t forced to be doing it. You also covered all of the questions I would have had about it, so thanks for the extensive post! Looking forward to seeing the system in action :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sopmac45 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) I like the concept very much and I would like to contribute to reward some mod authors that have been very nice to help whenever I have had some troubles with a particular mod; others have gone beyond my expectations and I will have no doubt to reward them forever but at the same time there are others, and probably the majority that are not very nice. My point is that a reward system is about to begin but we, mod users, must have some kind of reward too in the way that whoever mod author gets our vote, must be there for us anytime we need them and not just let us floating in the air with questions ( not answered ) about his/her mod not working properly and/or as it should. So I do not know how are you planning to manage that. Again, I put my knee down, take my hat and pay my tribute ( reward ) to those ( and they are very few btw ) that have been very nice in helping me with their mods. I do not have to mention names but there is one who is my friend and he is a very nice person and a great mod author and I will not hesitate to reward him as much as I can but I cannot say the same about the majority. Anyway I guess I am not that demanding about downloading quantity but quality. I will blindly reward quality and good treatment for using/downloading their mods. Hope you understand my point. Thanks P.S. >> Is there anyway that we can establish a fixed rate for using mods ? Like each user pays $1 for downloading a mod and have full access life-time on that mod ( updates, etc ) ? If the mod author is good, he/she will end up with thousands in his/her pocket, so this way we reward them and for us, mod users, will be a one-time transaction that will be flagged on that mod. Same principle with Nexus, I am a premium member and I paid already for my life-time full access. Edited December 19, 2017 by sopmac45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abot Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) In response to post #56089931. Reveal hidden contents Quote femshepping wrote: I think this is a cool idea! And it’s nice that it’s opt in/out so people that don’t like it for whatever reason aren’t forced to be doing it.You also covered all of the questions I would have had about it, so thanks for the extensive post! Looking forward to seeing the system in action :)I think your metric could be much better factoring also the game e.g.instead of total mod unique download,useA / BwhereA = total unique download for mod,B = total unique downloads for all mods and all modders of that game.,else the 2 or 3 more popular games will get it all.B is even more robust/hard to cheat than A[EDIT]sorry, post was not meant as a quote to femshepping, but to main post by Dark0ne Edited December 19, 2017 by abot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlycher Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I've been waiting for an announcement like this for years! Seems like a solution that takes the best parts Capitalistic Meritocracy combined with grassroots community goodwill. I know there will be hitches with the system, but I'm willing to give it a college try! In fact I feel so good about this announcement that I just purchased a lifetime premium membership. My first personal challenge is recoup that expense with DP :D What a pleasant surprise.....I did not see this announcement coming at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammersmcp Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 In response to post #56090321. Reveal hidden contents Quote sopmac45 wrote: I like the concept very much and I would like to contribute to reward some mod authors that have been very nice to help whenever I have had some troubles with a particular mod; others have gone beyond my expectations and I will have no doubt to reward them forever but at the same time there are others, and probably the majority that are not very nice. My point is that a reward system is about to begin but we, mod users, must have some kind of reward too in the way that whoever mod author gets our vote, must be there for us anytime we need them and not just let us floating in the air with questions ( not answered ) about his/her mod not working properly and/or as it should. So I do not know how are you planning to manage that. Again, I put my knee down, take my hat and pay my tribute ( reward ) to those ( and they are very few btw ) that have been very nice in helping me with their mods. I do not have to mention names but there is one who is my friend and he is a very nice person and a great mod author and I will not hesitate to reward him as much as I can but I cannot say the same about the majority. Anyway I guess I am not that demanding about downloading quantity but quality. I will blindly reward quality and good treatment for using/downloading their mods. Hope you understand my point. ThanksP.S. >> Is there anyway that we can establish a fixed rate for using mods ? Like each user pays $1 for downloading a mod and have full access life-time on that mod ( updates, etc ) ? If the mod author is good, he/she will end up with thousands in his/her pocket, so this way we reward them and for us, mod users, will be a one-time transaction that will be flagged on that mod. Same principle with Nexus, I am a premium member and I paid already for my life-time full access. I don't expect mod authors to provide the same level of support ("anytime we need them") as sopmac45 does, but could there be a way to cancel your unique download if the mod does not perform as described? Or will there be some kind of moderator oversight to determine if a mod is deceptive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loveblanket Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Sounds good, I don't have a problem with it. I wish we had the option to buy mods from modders who wanted to do it full time and give us quality work, but that ship sailed for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacremas Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 In response to post #56092771. Reveal hidden contents Quote Loveblanket wrote: Sounds good, I don't have a problem with it. I wish we had the option to buy mods from modders who wanted to do it full time and give us quality work, but that ship sailed for now.You could just donate to them directly. I've done that in the past for some authors who's works I've used extensively. Other authors have Patreon sites and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patchling Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Noble idea. But I am worried that the implementation may be different than what you intended it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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