V0.13.3 adds spurious dependencies

[Deleted3897072User]

After installing 0.13.3, I noticed that some plugin dependencies have appeared that I didn't set and which relate to mods I know nothing about and don't have installed (and never have had). There seems to be no way to delete them.

 

For example, in SSE I have USSEP installed and a rule has appeared saying "Loads after Lanterns of Skyrim". What is Lanterns of Skyrim? Why would Vortex think I have installed it? And why won't it let me edit the dependency to remove it?

 

This is confusing because now I can't distinguish, by looking for the orange symbol, which mods have rules that I've set and might wish to edit, from spurious ones that Vortex has invented for no apparent reason.

 

I hope this is a bug and not a feature?

[HardwareSc8]

Yeah, that's a bug...

 

LoS is supposed to load after USSEP, according to what I've read, so that one can't even be blamed on LOOT...

[HadToRegister]

It's weird, because why are these rules ending up inside the program?
Like the 0.13.12 bug where you couldn't look at the plugin tab for FO3 and Oblivion because it crashed, listing a failure to load a mod that isn't even installed.

It's like the masterloot list is applying itself or something

[HardwareSc8]

I think it's artifacting in the javascript code; stuff left over from specific behind-the-scenes tests that sneaks into the release versions. Happens all the time in game dev. I've look at my local copies of the LOOT masterlist, and the errors we're seeing don't match up to what's in my list, that's part of the reason I think it's artifacts.

 

Or, I suppose, it could be some form of code corruption; the program tries to repair itself and strange things result.

[LawrenceFB]

It's weird, because why are these rules ending up inside the program?

Like the 0.13.12 bug where you couldn't look at the plugin tab for FO3 and Oblivion because it crashed, listing a failure to load a mod that isn't even installed.

 

It's like the masterloot list is applying itself or something

 

That was, looking at the changelog, an error parsing the masterlist :smile: . The strings causing the error were entries in that list so where independent of what you actually used. This error seems to be something else.

 

Edit: Not an error, see below. I should have taken the time to check the masterlist and/or mod page, or even better left it until the morning :) .

Edited February 22, 2018 by lefbarnes

[Tannin42]

The rules that you can't delete are masterlist rules. Vortex currently displays all masterlist rules stored for a plugin, even if the referenced plugin isn't installed.
For userlist rules that makes sense because otherwise if you disable/remove a mod you wouldn't be able to delete rules referencing plugins in that mod.
For masterlist rules it makes less sense...

 

Regarding

LoS is supposed to load after USSEP, according to what I've read, so that one can't even be blamed on LOOT...

 

This is from the masterlist:

- name: 'Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp'
global_priority: -120
after:
- 'Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm'

This is from the mod page:

This mods edit many exterior cells of Skyrim, so the good loading order is:

- Skyrim
- Update
- Lanterns of Skyrim
- Unofficial Skyrim Patch (or USSEP)
- DLCs and Unofficial patches
- ... All other mods

 

 

This is from the changelog on the masterlist

- Laterns wants to be before USSEP

 

So Lanterns is not supposed to load after USSEP, LOOT intentionally loads it before USSEP in accordance with the suggestion of the mod author.

 

I consider this a nice example of why having rule-based auto sorting is a good thing.

[sopmac45]

"""Yeah, that's a bug...

LoS is supposed to load after USSEP, according to what I've read, so that one can't even be blamed on LOOT... """"

 

... I've never heard that Lanterns of Skyrim must be loaded after the Unofficial Patch ... it does seems to me that you have not read the mod author's description.

 

Even if you do not enter a dependency between those two mods, NMM and Vortex automatically placed Lanterns before the USSEP so I do not know why you are saying what you did ... which bring to the conclusion that LOOT and Vortex sorting are doing the right thing in the first place and second that the mod author ( Lanterns ) did what every single mod author should do : to enter some type of code or load order rule that should be read by Vortex / LOOT so the mod should be placed where they want it to be ( automatically ) rather than we do it manually ... this way, it would simplify what players must do when dealing with load order, just my personal opinion.

 

There are several mods in Skyrim ( from the most downloaded list ) that should be placed at the bottom ( by mod author' recommendations ). For example, Unlimited Enchanting ( Zed ... ) has been advised by the mod author with these words : Hey, load it at the bottom of the load order .... he / she has been very clear about where this mod should be. Not reading the description will end up screwing with your game, period ! Same thing with Lanterns, Flower Girls ( bottom ), My Home is your Home ( bottom ), Patches ( bottom ), etc, etc, etc ... so definitely reading and applying what the mod author' recommend, should be simply unavoidable by any player.

 

Last but not the least, I recommend that you start trusting Vortex load order sorting and LOOT ... reading mod description before installing and trusting those tools are your best friends to have a stable game.

[Deleted3897072User]

The rules that you can't delete are masterlist rules. Vortex currently displays all masterlist rules stored for a plugin, even if the referenced plugin isn't installed.

For userlist rules that makes sense because otherwise if you disable/remove a mod you wouldn't be able to delete rules referencing plugins in that mod.

For masterlist rules it makes less sense...

 

Yes, I see the reasoning. I think it would be less confusing if masterlist before/after rules were only seen if their referenced plugins were installed. Or maybe make it an option in settings to 'display all' vs 'display only relevant'. I can imagine users, seeing a reference to a mod they haven't installed, wondering if perhaps it means that they should install it, just to satisfy the rule. Then you would have to explain to them that, no, it doesn't mean that and then they wouldn't read the explanation ... Anything users can misinterpret, they surely will :D

 

I wish I'd used a different example. I don't care whether Lanterns loads before or after USSEP because I don't use it. And that's the point. I don't need to know.