Simple manual load ordering plz

[Grestorn]

Again, you cannot override a master dependency in a mod. There's just no way. This has nothing to do with LOOT or its masterlist.

 

The masterlist itself is just an yaml file. If you don't like an entry, you can always remove it yourself, by hand. Any text editor will do.

 

Here are the only entries about BetterSettlers in the current masterlist:

 

  - name: 'BetterSettlers.esp'
    url: [ 'https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4772' ]
    after:
      - 'MoreSkinColors.esp'
      - 'AzarPonyHairstyles.esp'
      - 'Eli_Armour_Compendium.esp'
      - 'Scrap Everything - Core.esp'
      - 'Scrap Everything - Ultimate Edition.esp'
    clean:
      - crc: 0x6A5FC68B
        util: 'FO4Edit v3.2'
  - name: 'BetterSettlersFarHarborPatchMortal.esp'
    url: [ 'https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4772' ]
    req:
      - 'BetterSettlers.esp'
    after:
      - 'BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersCleanFacePack.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersCCAPack1.1b.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersCCAPack2.0.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersAllFemale.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersMortalPack.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersMortalSoldiersPack.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersLightArmorOnly.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersHeavyArmorOnly.esp'
    inc: [ 'BetterSettlersFarHarborPatch.esp' ]
  - name: 'BetterSettlersFarHarborPatch.esp'
    url: [ 'https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4772' ]
    req:
      - 'BetterSettlers.esp'
    after:
      - 'BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersCleanFacePack.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersCCAPack1.1b.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersCCAPack2.0.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersAllFemale.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersMortalPack.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersMortalSoldiersPack.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersLightArmorOnly.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersHeavyArmorOnly.esp'
    inc: [ 'BetterSettlersFarHarborPatchMortal.esp' ]
  - name: 'BetterSettlersCCAPack2.0.esp'
    url: [ 'https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4772' ]
    req:
      - 'BetterSettlers.esp'
    after:
      - 'BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp'
      - 'BetterSettlersCleanFacePack.esp'

There's no relationship mentioned in there between BetterSettlers and UniqueNPC.

 

And if Tannin is correct and I understood him correctly, the dependency you're seeing has been introduced by changing the .esp itself and adding the dependency in there directly.

[HadToRegister]

Again, you cannot override a master dependency in a mod. There's just no way. This has nothing to do with LOOT or its masterlist.

Dude....Just STOP....

 

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by Grestorn. View it anyway?

[Grestorn]

Well you cry for help, and then somebody tries to help you and you push him away.

[UrizenDe]

 

 

I have to jump in here. I have used Vilja in both LE and SE and have messed with load order all the time. I have never had any trouble.

 

Neither have I. I did also not use Viljas Outfit management, which is needed to trigger the issue.

 

 

 

I'm the one that brought up Vilja as an example of using Form ID lists and how that could create a mess while changing load order. (the first time I brought it up I mentioned that this was how I thought that mod worked I wasn't 100% sure)
Arthmoor's explanation of how Papyrus uses plugin names not load index to keep track of things in the save - that pretty much confirmed that this case should not be a worry. So, load order changes is not a problem during a playthrough....

 

Your initial assumption was correct. The fix for the bug is still present in the download section of Vilja.

 

 

 

/Edit: After reading the rest of the postings I understand that this whole Vilja thing was actually just hearsay. No known mod, including Vilja is depending on any mod's index. There is just one known example Tannin brought up, where a mod used an index to store items in an extrenal file (not the save game) and thereby circumventing the internal mechanisms which make sure that the index of all stored data is handled properly. However, since a very long time (in Oldrim), there are libraries for storing data externally (mod index save) by the way.

 

Hearsay you say. And yet the modpage on proboards has an entire section dedicated to it. The download page has a fix for it. But yeah, it was created because of hearsay.

[Grestorn]

Hearsay you say. And yet the modpage on proboards has an entire section dedicated to it. The download page has a fix for it. But yeah, it was created because of hearsay.

Ummm, there was a bug, it was fixed and now it works correctly. In what way does that contradict anything I've said? The mod author made a mistake, no idea how he did it, but he must have done something wrong, badly.

 

And now you're holding tight on that bug as if it has to control every decision anyone has to make about load ordering.

[Jebbalon]

Right and the fix script for the issue in Vilja mod for outfits simply refreshes the form lists involved - in other words the save doesn't get corrupted - The form lists can become messed up over time and they can be refreshed with that script.

I used the de-compiler champol-something to look at the script (the source was not available).

 

My whole point was to give example of mods that need to keep their load order and not have it change throughout the playthrough. Not by locking their index either. Apparently that is not a concern now. How the form lists get messed up is a mystery I guess.

[Jebbalon]

Grestorn - let it go - it was my example anyway.

That issue is not fixed by the way. It can still happen and the script is used to fix it when that happens. That's why it's a separate download.

[UrizenDe]

How the form lists get messed up is a mystery I guess.

At a guess? It´s propagated at the first start of the game, controlled by a quest, then never touched up on again. Making sense as they seemingly seem to be a [FEMALEDAWG] to create using scripts.

[Grestorn]

A form list is actually mod index agnostic.

 

@Jebbalon, I wonder, in what way does the formlist get messed up? I'm simply curious about what's happening in that mod.

[soupdragon1234]

I have evolved my thoughts on this. To me, drag and drop is a complete non-issue. The rules are working fro me. But if I did want to drag and drop, all would I need to do is turn off auto-sorting and do my drag and drop in WB. Vortex won't mess with your LO, as long as auto-sort is off.

 

And in having to resort to using Wrye Bash to accomplish this, you have invalidated any reason to be using Vortex for games Wrye Bash supports. So why bother? You already have the feature you seek in Wrye Bash.

 

Well except FOMOD, Profiles and VFS? Symlinks? Whatever the technical term is you can quickly deploy or purge mods without having to clutter the game's Data folder. Yes, that is helpful as mods are never actually in that folder only links which can easily be removed and the separate mods folder purged. And unlike MO/MO2 it actually works OOTB with tools like SSElodgen, the CK, papyrus compiler etc. Its a simple and very neat solution. The installer is instant. Its just its load order mechanism that needs work. WB despite its useful and unique tools is outdated these days.

 

So this is moot. Please finally understand that the fear of breaking a game because the load order has been changed is nothing but paranoia and completely unfounded. It would be nice, if people would just accept that as a fact. I have the feeling that this whole discussion about automatic vs. manual load order management here has been really polluted by that fear.

 

Then just what is the problem with just letting people simply drag 'n' drop mods around?! Why do we have to mod with our hands constantly tied behind our backs?!

 

This argument is so circular its hilarious.