Vault 76, What will make you give it a chance?

[mrmini]

I will likely look into it. I'm seeing this as say ARK or something like that with the Fallout IP more than anything else.

[yakalrad]

Being a girl who has never played MP in her life, and loving Fallout as I do, I might have considered playing this game had there been an option to play friendly co-op only. However, the toxic PvP assholes that have invaded and joined the Beth site this past week insures that I will NEVER buy this game. I am upset that Beth has forsaken their core fanbase in lieu of some fly-by-night cash grab. I really hope their catering to pricks pays off in some spactacular blowjobs. Edited June 16, 2018 by yakalrad

[genolune]

I play Fallout to escape real life and the jerks that inhabit it, to deal with raider cannibal jerks that inhabit my virtual life.

 

Fixed for you. ;)

 

No question about it, I think most hardcore Fallout players will not do it if there is toxic PvP. Fallout 76 might just be a game that attracts those types of people. I like the idea of cooperative building and some of the cooperative aspects. Rust was fun and interesting and creative for me when I was on a server with just me and two others (on a supposedly private server) until someone else showed up and wrecked all our progress overnight. That pretty much killed it for me.

[Virde]

Release the game. I intend to play it Day 1 with my group of regulars that I play multiplayer games with (Diablo, Divinity, Overwatch, Borderlands, etc.).

[zanity]

Look, let me ask you all a question. Why wasn't this game RAGE:Rust not FALLOUT:Rust. Todd controls both IPs and we all know the RAGE IP is essentially worthless (at this time) and thus could only be improved with an expanded universe.

 

But here's the kicker. RAGE has vehicles, and could easily have those small Mad Max flyable vehicles. Why does this matter. Cos Fallout lacks useful gameplay mechanisms for multiplayer. Fallout has stiff walking (no climbing or parkour) and stiff shooting, and that's it. You've got a map 4 times the size of Fallout 4 with the un-nuked quality of GTAV, you're gonna want the players to do stuff like race or arrange say a convoy that one side must protect while the other side tries to take down.

 

But Fallout PvP- oh, dear lord NO!!!. Already Todd has stated in multiple post-E£ interviews that there is no need to worry, cos death has no significance, you cannot loot players or their camps, and camps can be simply popped fully formed back out of that portable camp device every player carries.

 

So what use is PvP. The griefing continues even with death having no consquence, cos griefers can still stalk you, get in your way, and shoot you in immersive breaking ways as their bullets and explosions are 'disabled' from killing you after a time.

 

But the griefing HAS to happen cos there is literally nothing else to do in the game, once a few hours of radiant quests and explorations prove the giant world to be pointless. If the IP was RAGE, then people would start to invent game modes with those vehicles, and even fairly mindless vehicle on vehicle griefing may feel 'fun'.

 

But all you do in Fallout is WALK. And there are NO settlements in Fallout:Rust - just those very simple camps seen in the promotional videos (Todd has confirmed in multiple interviews that those camps are as sophisticated as camps get- that small and that simple). The world isn't evenm persistant, for every time you log back in, you join a different instance of the game. So much for that nuking nonsense. Either nuking is something you can arrange in a very short gaming session (in which case it would be the purset for of griefing), or it takes so long, you'll randomly come across a pre-nuked map when you join a new instance.

 

No world persistance (there is NO world persistance from the POV of a player who logs out then logs back in) ruins most of the naive expectations expressed here by foolish people trying to convince themselves Fallout:Rust is still somehow in the vein of Fallout 3 and 4. But more importantly no persistance ruins the very idea of Rust gameplay even more.

 

No persistance means trivial emergent gameplay- and that means griefing and almost nothing else. Griefing is easy to invent on the fly. And most of you that buy the game will be greifing yourselves even as you tell yourself today you hate the idea of griefing. Todd gives you the biggest clue when he repeats his favourite phrase "griefing will add drama".

 

Myself, I would love a game with sophisticated constructive griefing- vehicles, forts, persistance- something worth fighting and dying for. The chance to create a REAL raider faction, for instance, and fight as a raider to inflct horrors on the goodie-goodie faction. This is Todd's dream, but Todd has not allowed any mechanisms in Fallout76 that could possibly allow this type of emergent meta play to arise.

 

Griefing in and of itself is not the problem. Fortnite, for instance, is 100% griefing. You literally play to bring grief to each of the other 99 players. But 'cheap' griefing in a form of game where most players don't expect it is no fun whatsoever.

 

Not one post E3 interview suggests Beth has the first clue. They LIE about some distant future with the types of mods and 'private' servers you want- but they're never going to give you that for two reasons. Ruination of planned monetisation. And secondly such a gift would give modders too much power to literally build new games from the Fallout76 base. You think Zenimax would ever allow something like a PUBG mod that most Fallout76 players use in preference to the base game.

 

No, Fallout76 is designed to remain a very weak sandbox, with paid cosmetics and paid new 'dungeons'. A very badly thought out and diluted Fallout Online with none of the sane choices of TES online.

 

This 'idea' of very big open worlds in 'land-first' engines that the publisher then struggles to overlay with some kind of worth multi-player experience is a bit of a trend- see Wildlands for an existing example, or Metal Gear Survival. The sad truth is the amateur Early Access games like Rust, Day-z etc are all better cos as primitive as they are, they have a legitmate reason to exist, and fans know what they are getting into.

 

But it isn't a genre suitable for AAA devs. AAA devs are supposed to create and code GAME content. AAA devs should never use the term "emergent gameplay".

 

PS no-one would be arguing against Fallout:Rust as an 'experiment' if it cost 20 dollars, or better free, and sought to make its money from 'cosmetics' and 'vanity' purchases like Fortnite:Battle Royale. Fallout:Rust was originally developed by Beth's F2P (FREE to play) software team. It was idiot Todd who then decided to turn Fallout76 into the same big launch as Skyrim and Fallout 4, moving the resources of two more teams onto the game, and making it full price. All without the first clue how to justify this price by content.

 

PPS it now seems the Beta is a lie, beginning 1 Nov (few weeks before the game goes on general sale). This isn't a Beta but a method to get fools to pre-order with the offer to play the game a handful of days early. By no coincidence, the many gaming subcription services launched by various publishers at E3 had the same bonus- subscribe and play new games a week or two early.

 

Like a blockbuster whose internal testing proves people hate it, and therefore the studio won't allow critics to review the film until a day before release, it seems Beth wants as many sales as possible before the first true reviews hit. And even Beth won't decide on the initial internal 'rules' of the game until days before the fake beta begins.

 

While many of you think Beth has been going from strength to strength recently, the opposite has been true. The Evil Within 2, Dishonored 2, Wolf 2 and Prey were not significant money earners. Fallout and Skyrim are BILLION dollar+ franchises for Beth- on a totally different scale. If Todd had allowed an external dev team to bang out a Fallout 4:NV type project, it would have been finished in 18 months, cost 20 million, and would earn well in excess of 500 million dollars. But Todd, since NV, cannot stand the idea of anyone but him making Fallout or Elder Scrolls games.

 

Thus we have the literal insanity of unwanted experimental Fallout:Rust being the next true entry in the Fallout/Elder Scrolls cycle. Fallout:Rust must bring in that billion+ dollars else Zenimax is going to get very unhappy indeed. Zenimax hardly cares if Beth has a ton of much less successful IP titles each year so long as the two big boys are are kept in play.

 

But Fallout:76 reminds me of the Lawbringers bomb, or that NOT-borderlands bomb Gearbox inflicted on the world instead of Borderlands 3. In the case of both these bombs, arrogant devs were trying to jump onto an online bandwagon. Not one they were experienced or skilled in- just a bandwagon they thought would be an easy cash cow.

 

The deep irony is that I would have greater hope for Fallout:76 if it added a PUBG mode from day one. The Fallout map would be perfect for PUBG deathmatch and the shooty/loot mechanisms are already in the game. PUBG, for all it's success, has a rotten map, rotten netcode etc (which is why Fortnite has thrashed it). But people have a taste for non-cartoony Battle Royale.

 

However, reading between the lines, I think 24 players is all Beth feels confident supporting on the console versions of Fallout:76- a pathetic limitation. Indeed, I'm scared at just how many technical limitations this new engine seems to have. As a land first engine, it seems that aside from finally moving all rendering to the GPU, and allowing the large vistas seen in games like Just Cause, Far Cry and Wildlands, its ability to do towns and interiors is more limited than the old Fallout 4 engine.

 

Anyhoo, to conclude, if I were an optimist about Fallout:76, I would be screaming at Todd and Beth to implement vehicles before release. I promise you, having vehicles would increase the possibility of fun emergent gameplay one million precent.

 

Oh, and to answer the OP... no-one should pre-order. No-one should even consider the game until it is fully reviewed in its release form. This was a Fallout no-one asked for - so no-one has even the slightest reason to trust anything Beth says. When it is reviewed, and only then, you'll have the true mechanical facts about the game. Only with those facts can a sane person make a sane decision as to whether it is a game worth buying, even if one is still gambling on 'improvements' down the line. Let irresponsible Beth carry all the risks, and don't share them.

[MissingMeshTV]

I can but imagine Mr Handy l33t dialogue being recorded by suxorz for the n00b audience. That wont do, not at all.

But it r0xors my s0xors! :laugh:

[DanteRedfield]

I'll probably try it if the gameplay is good and im not forced to play with a squad

[buzzbomb]

Look, let me ask you all a question. Why wasn't this game RAGE:Rust not FALLOUT:Rust. Todd controls both IPs and we all know the RAGE IP is essentially worthless (at this time) and thus could only be improved with an expanded universe.

 

But here's the kicker. RAGE has vehicles, and could easily have those small Mad Max flyable vehicles. Why does this matter. Cos Fallout lacks useful gameplay mechanisms for multiplayer. Fallout has stiff walking (no climbing or parkour) and stiff shooting, and that's it. You've got a map 4 times the size of Fallout 4 with the un-nuked quality of GTAV, you're gonna want the players to do stuff like race or arrange say a convoy that one side must protect while the other side tries to take down.

 

But Fallout PvP- oh, dear lord NO!!!. Already Todd has stated in multiple post-E£ interviews that there is no need to worry, cos death has no significance, you cannot loot players or their camps, and camps can be simply popped fully formed back out of that portable camp device every player carries.

 

So what use is PvP. The griefing continues even with death having no consquence, cos griefers can still stalk you, get in your way, and shoot you in immersive breaking ways as their bullets and explosions are 'disabled' from killing you after a time.

 

But the griefing HAS to happen cos there is literally nothing else to do in the game, once a few hours of radiant quests and explorations prove the giant world to be pointless. If the IP was RAGE, then people would start to invent game modes with those vehicles, and even fairly mindless vehicle on vehicle griefing may feel 'fun'.

 

But all you do in Fallout is WALK. And there are NO settlements in Fallout:Rust - just those very simple camps seen in the promotional videos (Todd has confirmed in multiple interviews that those camps are as sophisticated as camps get- that small and that simple). The world isn't evenm persistant, for every time you log back in, you join a different instance of the game. So much for that nuking nonsense. Either nuking is something you can arrange in a very short gaming session (in which case it would be the purset for of griefing), or it takes so long, you'll randomly come across a pre-nuked map when you join a new instance.

 

No world persistance (there is NO world persistance from the POV of a player who logs out then logs back in) ruins most of the naive expectations expressed here by foolish people trying to convince themselves Fallout:Rust is still somehow in the vein of Fallout 3 and 4. But more importantly no persistance ruins the very idea of Rust gameplay even more.

 

No persistance means trivial emergent gameplay- and that means griefing and almost nothing else. Griefing is easy to invent on the fly. And most of you that buy the game will be greifing yourselves even as you tell yourself today you hate the idea of griefing. Todd gives you the biggest clue when he repeats his favourite phrase "griefing will add drama".

 

Myself, I would love a game with sophisticated constructive griefing- vehicles, forts, persistance- something worth fighting and dying for. The chance to create a REAL raider faction, for instance, and fight as a raider to inflct horrors on the goodie-goodie faction. This is Todd's dream, but Todd has not allowed any mechanisms in Fallout76 that could possibly allow this type of emergent meta play to arise.

 

Griefing in and of itself is not the problem. Fortnite, for instance, is 100% griefing. You literally play to bring grief to each of the other 99 players. But 'cheap' griefing in a form of game where most players don't expect it is no fun whatsoever.

 

Not one post E3 interview suggests Beth has the first clue. They LIE about some distant future with the types of mods and 'private' servers you want- but they're never going to give you that for two reasons. Ruination of planned monetisation. And secondly such a gift would give modders too much power to literally build new games from the Fallout76 base. You think Zenimax would ever allow something like a PUBG mod that most Fallout76 players use in preference to the base game.

 

No, Fallout76 is designed to remain a very weak sandbox, with paid cosmetics and paid new 'dungeons'. A very badly thought out and diluted Fallout Online with none of the sane choices of TES online.

 

This 'idea' of very big open worlds in 'land-first' engines that the publisher then struggles to overlay with some kind of worth multi-player experience is a bit of a trend- see Wildlands for an existing example, or Metal Gear Survival. The sad truth is the amateur Early Access games like Rust, Day-z etc are all better cos as primitive as they are, they have a legitmate reason to exist, and fans know what they are getting into.

 

But it isn't a genre suitable for AAA devs. AAA devs are supposed to create and code GAME content. AAA devs should never use the term "emergent gameplay".

 

PS no-one would be arguing against Fallout:Rust as an 'experiment' if it cost 20 dollars, or better free, and sought to make its money from 'cosmetics' and 'vanity' purchases like Fortnite:Battle Royale. Fallout:Rust was originally developed by Beth's F2P (FREE to play) software team. It was idiot Todd who then decided to turn Fallout76 into the same big launch as Skyrim and Fallout 4, moving the resources of two more teams onto the game, and making it full price. All without the first clue how to justify this price by content.

 

PPS it now seems the Beta is a lie, beginning 1 Nov (few weeks before the game goes on general sale). This isn't a Beta but a method to get fools to pre-order with the offer to play the game a handful of days early. By no coincidence, the many gaming subcription services launched by various publishers at E3 had the same bonus- subscribe and play new games a week or two early.

 

Like a blockbuster whose internal testing proves people hate it, and therefore the studio won't allow critics to review the film until a day before release, it seems Beth wants as many sales as possible before the first true reviews hit. And even Beth won't decide on the initial internal 'rules' of the game until days before the fake beta begins.

 

While many of you think Beth has been going from strength to strength recently, the opposite has been true. The Evil Within 2, Dishonored 2, Wolf 2 and Prey were not significant money earners. Fallout and Skyrim are BILLION dollar+ franchises for Beth- on a totally different scale. If Todd had allowed an external dev team to bang out a Fallout 4:NV type project, it would have been finished in 18 months, cost 20 million, and would earn well in excess of 500 million dollars. But Todd, since NV, cannot stand the idea of anyone but him making Fallout or Elder Scrolls games.

 

Thus we have the literal insanity of unwanted experimental Fallout:Rust being the next true entry in the Fallout/Elder Scrolls cycle. Fallout:Rust must bring in that billion+ dollars else Zenimax is going to get very unhappy indeed. Zenimax hardly cares if Beth has a ton of much less successful IP titles each year so long as the two big boys are are kept in play.

 

But Fallout:76 reminds me of the Lawbringers bomb, or that NOT-borderlands bomb Gearbox inflicted on the world instead of Borderlands 3. In the case of both these bombs, arrogant devs were trying to jump onto an online bandwagon. Not one they were experienced or skilled in- just a bandwagon they thought would be an easy cash cow.

 

The deep irony is that I would have greater hope for Fallout:76 if it added a PUBG mode from day one. The Fallout map would be perfect for PUBG deathmatch and the shooty/loot mechanisms are already in the game. PUBG, for all it's success, has a rotten map, rotten netcode etc (which is why Fortnite has thrashed it). But people have a taste for non-cartoony Battle Royale.

 

However, reading between the lines, I think 24 players is all Beth feels confident supporting on the console versions of Fallout:76- a pathetic limitation. Indeed, I'm scared at just how many technical limitations this new engine seems to have. As a land first engine, it seems that aside from finally moving all rendering to the GPU, and allowing the large vistas seen in games like Just Cause, Far Cry and Wildlands, its ability to do towns and interiors is more limited than the old Fallout 4 engine.

 

Anyhoo, to conclude, if I were an optimist about Fallout:76, I would be screaming at Todd and Beth to implement vehicles before release. I promise you, having vehicles would increase the possibility of fun emergent gameplay one million precent.

 

Oh, and to answer the OP... no-one should pre-order. No-one should even consider the game until it is fully reviewed in its release form. This was a Fallout no-one asked for - so no-one has even the slightest reason to trust anything Beth says. When it is reviewed, and only then, you'll have the true mechanical facts about the game. Only with those facts can a sane person make a sane decision as to whether it is a game worth buying, even if one is still gambling on 'improvements' down the line. Let irresponsible Beth carry all the risks, and don't share them.

Once again, to my Dear Zanity, this will the be my third posting of the paragraph below:

 

"Zanity, I love you man. I can't even tell if you're doing it on purpose, but you have the most thought-out and imaginative troll rants I've ever had the pleasure of reading. I tip my tinfoil hat to you."

I'm not going to link this time. Just check any thread concerning Fallout 76. I will however share this observation here, that I have not shared elsewhere, and I'll put it in current vernacular, it's the part in the quotations: The people who might be swayed by that stuff? "Bruh, TLDR." Oh, the irony!

[sopmac45]

 

I do not like this new Bethesda addition ... never played an online game and this will not be the first time .. what a shame ... do not know if playing solo is allowed and if so, would I be able to play the entire game or just the main story ?

 

If solo is allowed for the entire game, then I will give it a shot, otherwise, I am out and hoping that the new Elder Scroll VI will not an online also ....

 

 

Well... Todd said "solo" is an option, but its not Single-Player. If you play solo, you can expect to meet groups. Then you have to fight vs 2-5 other people at the same time and they will probably kill you. In most survival games, solo is not an option, once you get out numbered, you are lost. I'm not a bad player and tried many games solo. Arma2(DayZ, all kinds of variations), Rust, Ark, Arma3(Exile) etc... its not soloable. You'll get frustrated and toss the game.

 

And i think there is no story. As there is also no dialog. Some story is maybe probably told with notes and such, but... well.. look at fallout 4, this is how deep it gets. A random note from a random guy, while doing something random and totally not related to anything.

 

I'm not sure if there is anything interessting, except the world/landscape, which looks very good and well made.

 

 

 

Thanks for that. I won't play it and I am afraid that the next Elder Scroll VI will be the same.

 

It would be very interesting if somehow we get to know how many thousands of people plays an online game vs. an offline. I think that Bethesda made a wrong decision here.

[Blutoblutarsky]

1- make it more like Conan exiles.

2- add a single player option

3- allow independent mods on the non official servers- this works w Conan exiles.

4- no monthly cc updates that screw up any script extenders to hoc their crap.