What determines load-order without a Mod Organizer?

[MarkusTay]

I think I am finally getting somewhere with getting my game to work again.

 

If I start a game using Steam or F4SE, what mods are getting loaded? Just the ones in the Data folder?

 

If I start F4SE directly and not use MO2 to start it, none of my mods (that were only installed through MO2) should show up, right? Is there any other 'list' that generates the loaded mods, or is that done on-the-fly without a Mod Manager? If so, what, then, determines the load order? There has to be some sort of file for that, regardless of whether you use a Mod manager or not.

 

And is there any downside to NOT using a Mod Organizer, other than more work? If I can determine my load-order without one, then I don't even see why I need that extra layer.

[HadToRegister]

I think I am finally getting somewhere with getting my game to work again.

 

If I start a game using Steam or F4SE, what mods are getting loaded? Just the ones in the Data folder?

 

If I start F4SE directly and not use MO2 to start it, none of my mods (that were only installed through MO2) should show up, right? Is there any other 'list' that generates the loaded mods, or is that done on-the-fly without a Mod Manager? If so, what, then, determines the load order? There has to be some sort of file for that, regardless of whether you use a Mod manager or not.

 

And is there any downside to NOT using a Mod Organizer, other than more work? If I can determine my load-order without one, then I don't even see why I need that extra layer.

 

Not sure why you insist on doing everything in the most difficult way possible, but what you're trying to do is a massive headache.

 

 

[MarkusTay]

My game will only run if I DON'T use MO2. Now, its been suggested to me that I should switch to Vortex, but that has issues of its own, so why bother at all when I can simply install everything manually?

 

So long as there is some way to adjust my load-order, that is.

 

I don't mind more work, if it means things will run better (or in this case, at all). I've already had to install a few manually before any of this happened, because their assets weren't showing up in-game (which I am sure you aware because the Mod manager doesn't actually put any of the files in the game folder, which seems anti-intuitive to me). If I have to put the textures and meshes in the Data folder, I may as well dump the esp in there as well.

[MarkusTay]

I'd still like this answered, even though my game is running fine. I like to learn how all of this stuff works.

 

The "don't touch stuff you don't understand" isn't ideal, at least not in my case, Thank god no-one ever told that to cavemen, eh?

 

Cheers

[Sharlikran]

Not sure if you would want to try it but Wrye Bash (wrye flash) is more or less the same as manually installing a mod as it's a direct copy from the installer to the data folder. No virtual folders or links. It has docs in the docs folder.

 

There isn't an update on the nexus and this is a slightly round about way to get the latest version with some of my ug fixes, especially those for fallout 4.

 

Go to the nexus page, read the last line in the sticky, joint the discord, go to the wip-builds channel and get the exe installer. Install the exe standalone and try it out.

[theoddlittleturtle]

I think I am finally getting somewhere with getting my game to work again.

 

If I start a game using Steam or F4SE, what mods are getting loaded? Just the ones in the Data folder?

 

If I start F4SE directly and not use MO2 to start it, none of my mods (that were only installed through MO2) should show up, right? Is there any other 'list' that generates the loaded mods, or is that done on-the-fly without a Mod Manager? If so, what, then, determines the load order? There has to be some sort of file for that, regardless of whether you use a Mod manager or not.

 

And is there any downside to NOT using a Mod Organizer, other than more work? If I can determine my load-order without one, then I don't even see why I need that extra layer.

 

apologies if this is considered a necro: If you aren't going to use MO2, remove MO2's ini from (all) F4SE folders and the data folder to make sure they aren't being read or able to cause issues later. (back them up if you intend to use them again)

 

The main advantage of MO2 is loose file management and having different load orders (and Fallout4Custom.ini) for different characters without installing everything over again. There are no advantages of using other managers other than to by-passing the clunky nature of the in-game manager. But if the load order is not large, in game mod manager works fine (and it's quicker to use with a gamepad instead of mouse). You just have to make sure all mods you've added to your data folder have fallout4.esm as a master file or the in-game will force it to the bottom of the load order, which is probably something other managers should do. All files should have fallout4.esm as a master.

 

Had an issue with MO2 after I installed an update incorrectly (forgot to unblock the exe and Windows 10 and Windows Defender basically ate it; had to redownload, reinstall, unblock, disable Defender entirely and rely solely on a different antivirus). However, I like manually managing the data folder (cuz control freak) and only using Wrye Bash to flip-flop plugins as needed - with the exception of having to pack all the loose files into BA2 files. Where the real chore lies. Not really sure what the deal is with people offering developer/loose files but with no developer/source scripts instead of the real mod files that are packed properly so they don't load out of order and/or slow fps to a crawl. Got really irritating to manage all of them which is why I was using MO2: Loose file containment so I could pack everything. With Skyrim and SkyrimSE, (most) everything is archived properly, loads like it should, and is easier to work with in the data folder. There's just a lot of patches to manage.

 

edit: not sure why a sentence was duplicated?

Edited December 26, 2018 by theoddlittleturtle

[DoctorKaizeld]

Okay so instead of information not answering the question asked I will give you the answer.

 

Your load order is determined by you. When manually installing mods go in the order you want them loaded as when you drop files in it will ask you if you want to replace them or not. Load order only matters when in relation to two mods that interact in some way. If mod A changes vampires and mod D changes vampires then they will conflict as such the one you want to have more of the features from needs to be installed after the previous one.

 

Honestly load order doesn't matter at all if you install mods in the right order from the start whether you use a manager or not. The reason managers are helpful is to add and remove mods with ease.

[MarkusTay]

Actually, no-one has yet told me where the folder is that stores the 'load order' info. It must be one of those 'deep mysteries' you can only unlock after you've obtained the 66th level of modding. LOL

 

Of course, when I asked this I was using MO2, so the question would have been "where does MODORGANIZER 2 put the load-order list?" (what folder is it in in my comp.)

 

Now I am running Vortex, which is VERY finicky, but if you have a LOT of patience it seems to do a good job (because it won't allow you to simply ignore potential problems, unlike MO2 which just shoved everything in the overwrites). My game also runs differently with Vortex, which I am sure has a lot to do with load order (although I used LOOT with MO2, and thats what Vortex uses, so how different could they have been?) I say 'differently' because in some aspects its better (I don't see any broken meshes/textures like I used to have with MO2, and I haven't been losing any categories in Workshop), but in other ways it seems less... intuitive. Not the interface itself (which I find EXTREMELY annoying), but the game behaves differently. Of course, I am not using the precise same mods as I did before, and that could have a lot to do with it. For example, I used to be able to build the RU566 in the weaponsmith workbench, but now I can't - there are a slew of other guns I would never bother with in it now (there were two mods I HATED having to use, but was forced to because I didn't want to give up the mod that listed them as prerequisites). Yet I used those same mods the last time as well, and those other guns never showed up (thankfully), and the RU556 did. I would play with my load order, but I don't want to get Vortex mad at me again... its a moody piece of software. Reminds me of my ex - if you disagree with it it doesn't talk to you for a week.

[Undeadbob666]

Seem to recall a txt file that had the load order in it for F04, though I cannot remember where it was located or what it was called to be honest (maybe as simple as loadorder.txt, but I doubt it). Not sure if you aware of it, but you can also run LOOT to further check for errors (sometimes it gives you solutions too) outside of Vortex and any changes made in loot transfer over to vortex.

 

Wyre bash is what I actually use to disable plug-ins I don't want to use, since you can't do that in vortex, and those changes also transfer over.

[Deleted49413338User]

Loot is terrible. I does flag errors but as for load order.. it jumbles thing around in a weird fahion and I even have had it place patches above their masters.