[suggestion] Easier load order

[NikitaDarkstar]

 

Having used both, I can tell you what I believe to be missing from drag and drop compared to a rules based sort - an audit trail of what mod was placed in a specific point in the load order and why. Using the rules based method I can easily set up rules and groups to place any mod EXACTLY where I want it in the load order, and, I can use additional documentation files in Vortex to write down why I did it. It is a very easy system to learn, and gives you complete control.

Okay so maybe you do have a point in drag/drop / manual ordering is redundant, and maybe I am clinging to old ways (I've been using NMM since oldrim was the new, hot thing and yes I do feel more in control when I sort things myself), and I'm not sure if you were serious with this bit or not but I feel like it would help a lot to have something like this (since what I originally asked for is clearly a no-go). Knowing why it's in the place it is would also help make decisions when setting up rules, and it'd help people like me feel more comfortable with the software (which is most likely a very low priority but just talking as a user here). For example I have one mod in SSE that insists on being below everything, including my bashed patch, and I got no idea why, all I know is that traditionally nothing goes below the batched patch so I've been trying to set up rules to make the batched patch go below the mod. Am I breaking things when trying to order things like that? I don't know. I also don't know why vortex is so insistent on having the mod at the end of the load order.

 

So yhea, if manual sorting isn't going to happen ever, a way to get more information about why vrotex did what it did would be A+.

[2much4l1]

@1ae0bfb8

To say another way, in the screenshot Vortex is notifying me about conflicts with texture mods which I have already resolved to my satisfaction. Since Vortex is kind enough to let me deploy mods with these texture conflicts i have chosen to forego the tedium of making Vortex shut the hell up... :smile:.

Not difficult, tedious.

 

I feel like the word sub-optimal is coming between us.

 

Thanks for the compact UI tip. Sounds like it might mitigate one of my issues with Vortex. I'll click around and see if I can get it implemented.

 

I am seriously not piling on. I have used Vortex and strongly disagree with its design and especially with how intrusive it is because of the added features, which I never needed before.

 

Some may say, 'Go back to the NMM then!" Ha! The jokes on... me! I love the NMM, but can no longer download from site with it. I dislike Vortex, but I know how to use it and it downloads from site like a champ.

 

Although we disagree about Vortex I must say that I admire all the help every one in this thread provides to this forum. Thank you 1ae0bfb8 for a useful post and I'll take your advice and play around with Vortex a little more.

[HadToRegister]

 

but can no longer download from site with it.

 

 

Yes you can, just click on the GITHUB button.

I really wish you'd research things before making incorrect claims

 

 

 

 

[2much4l1]

 

 

but can no longer download from site with it.

 

 

Yes you can, just click on the GITHUB button.

I really wish you'd research things before making incorrect claims

 

 

 

 

 

What makes you think I haven't downloaded that? What makes you think I haven't done any research? Are you aware there is now a 0.65.11? Here's a link:https://github.com/Nexus-Mods/Nexus-Mod-Manager/releases

 

Here's a thread I read through: https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/537782-cant-log-in-to-nexus-mod-manager/

And another: https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/6315931-nexus-mod-manager-unable-to-log-in-wrong-user-name-and-password/

 

Thanks for trying to help though.

[HadToRegister]

 

What makes you think I haven't downloaded that? What makes you think I haven't done any research? Are you aware there is now a 0.65.11?

 

 

 

Well, one of those threads is from 2012, and the other thread is from 2018, but the 'solution' for the 2018 thread is a link to the 2012 thread, which was for NMM version 0.14.1 and has nothing to do with the latest version.

Why you even brought it up is a mystery.

 

The reason I thought you hadn't done your research is because you said this

 

I love the NMM, but can no longer download from site with it

Anyway, I'm starting to feel trolled, so I'll leave the thread now.

 

[2much4l1]

 

 

What makes you think I haven't downloaded that? What makes you think I haven't done any research? Are you aware there is now a 0.65.11?

 

 

 

Well, one of those threads is from 2012, and the other thread is from 2018, but the 'solution' for the 2018 thread is a link to the 2012 thread, which was for NMM version 0.14.1 and has nothing to do with the latest version.

Why you even brought it up is a mystery.

 

The reason I thought you hadn't done your research is because you said this

 

I love the NMM, but can no longer download from site with it

Anyway, I'm starting to feel trolled, so I'll leave the thread now.

 

Wait! You never answered my question on how you would resolve my dialogue conflict.

[Guest deleted34304850]

@1ae0bfb8

To say another way, in the screenshot Vortex is notifying me about conflicts with texture mods which I have already resolved to my satisfaction. Since Vortex is kind enough to let me deploy mods with these texture conflicts i have chosen to forego the tedium of making Vortex shut the hell up... :smile:.

Not difficult, tedious.

 

I feel like the word sub-optimal is coming between us.

 

Thanks for the compact UI tip. Sounds like it might mitigate one of my issues with Vortex. I'll click around and see if I can get it implemented.

 

I am seriously not piling on. I have used Vortex and strongly disagree with its design and especially with how intrusive it is because of the added features, which I never needed before.

 

Some may say, 'Go back to the NMM then!" Ha! The jokes on... me! I love the NMM, but can no longer download from site with it. I dislike Vortex, but I know how to use it and it downloads from site like a champ.

 

Although we disagree about Vortex I must say that I admire all the help every one in this thread provides to this forum. Thank you 1ae0bfb8 for a useful post and I'll take your advice and play around with Vortex a little more.

I get it now.

One thing, though, you say that the conflicts were resolved to your satisfaction. Okay, I can understand that - but here's the thing. Vortex, being a bloody good mod manager, is telling you that you have issues. Now it might be that you don't care about those conflicts, and that's fine - but - going back to the sub-optimal word, this example that you showed us, shows that your use of that word is somewhat misdirected.

You mention that vortex is intrusive compared to your previous mod manager. Are you suggesting that because it is finding issues and telling you about them, this is a bad thing? isn't that somewhat contradictory? You are not a fan of a mod manager finding fault with your mod deployment that could cause issues in your game?

What other features does Vortex have that you don't need? Having come from NMM to Vortex, I found that it was very configurable, and the fact that I didn't need to load LOOT after playing around in NMM as it's all in one place was a bit of a godsend, but I don't know what other features are not required that I am forced to use.

BTW - yesterday you asked me if I would change anything about the UI of Vortex. I have one thing that I would change, and that is when I want to look for mods that require an update, I have to find that option using the version field. I would suggest that this could be improved by the use of a small graphic, similar to the grapics that Vortex uses when it detects a plugin needs cleaning, for example. It's a small thing, but that would be something I would change if I could.

[2much4l1]

With the NMM you may be asked to choose conflict winners and losers when installing a mod. When asked I command NMM to overwrite, typically "yes to all", and 2 seconds later voila! no more conflicts. Nothing is nagging you about setting rules because your effing rule has already been followed by the humble NMM. I consider this optimal mod manager behavior. Vortex lacks this behavior ergo it finds issues.

 

So my optimal Vortex would mimic NMM behavior and yes I will take a built in LOOT like feature too.

 

I like your UI ideas and Holy Cow the compact UI should be the default. Once I get the color scheme set i will have to say good job Vortex!

[AugustaCalidia]

With the NMM you may be asked to choose conflict winners and losers when installing a mod. When asked I command NMM to overwrite, typically "yes to all", and 2 seconds later voila! no more conflicts.

 

When you tell NMM to overwrite, you're not setting a rule - you're issuing a command. NMM keeps no record of that. It simply does what it's told and sticks the winning file into the game data folder. If you do that enough times, then you risk forgetting what is overwriting what. There is no audit trail or book of rules to consult, unless you take careful notes every time you command NMM to overwrite. With Vortex, however, you set rules and thus have a permanent record of your overwrite decisions. These rules can be easily consulted any time you consider making, say, certain texture changes. So what if NMM can overwrite in two seconds? How does that make it superior to Vortex? Are we in some kind of race to the overwrite finish line? I'm not at all interested in speed; I'm interested in an accessible, recorded set of rules that I can consult and/or easily change, as the situation warrants.

 

Now if all you're interested in is a kind of mod manager Kentucky Derby, then let's match horses when it comes to changing, say, a texture decision. With NMM you have commanded that Mod B overwrite Mod A With Vortex I have overwritten Mod A with Mod B, using a rule. But now let's reverse that overwrite. In this case, which horse is the fastest? NMM? Vortex?

[Guest deleted34304850]

With the NMM you may be asked to choose conflict winners and losers when installing a mod. When asked I command NMM to overwrite, typically "yes to all", and 2 seconds later voila! no more conflicts. Nothing is nagging you about setting rules because your effing rule has already been followed by the humble NMM. I consider this optimal mod manager behavior. Vortex lacks this behavior ergo it finds issues.

 

So my optimal Vortex would mimic NMM behavior and yes I will take a built in LOOT like feature too.

 

I like your UI ideas and Holy Cow the compact UI should be the default. Once I get the color scheme set i will have to say good job Vortex!

Ah now, you see, for your first point, I get wIhat you mean, but in response 'll give you this example.

I decided one day, after I messed up my mods that NMM was rubbish and I could do a better job because I'm ace. I kicked NMM to the kerb, and went through a process of manually installing mods. It's really not so hard - at a high level. You unplack the mod and install it in the folder, job done.

Then, one day I applied a mod that overwrote some files that were already in place.

I booted up the game, all worked. I'm a modding boss.

Then a while later, I decided I didn't want that mod any more, so I went in and deleted it. I'm a modding boss, remember, so I fired up the game and BAM! CTD.

Fired it up again, BAM! CTD.

Investigated - remember no mod manager, just me, the boss of modding and a set of directories.

I put the mod I removed back into the game folders and started up - worked - but something wasn't right. I was missing textures, and the game was jerky and basically wrecked.

I uninstalled the mod, then looked around and found that the mod which was originally installed was now partially installed because I, the boss of modding, had removed some of the files it needed - hence CTD

 

When I later moved from NMM to Vortex, I got to understand hardlinks.

Conceptually - but not identically - think of desktop shortcuts.

 

I deploy a mod with vortex, it does its thing and i have a series of hardlinked files in my directories. I add a mod that changes some existing files, the files are hard links and are updated by the hardlinks from the new mod i just installed. i decide to remove the new mod - vortex removes all the files that were put in place - and then - get this - it restores the files that were updated by the new mod - COMPLETELY - so I can remove that mod and know that the structure of the hard link files is restored completely.

 

the end result - i can add/remove mods and know that no matter what i do - as long as i do everything in vortex - my game is going to be fine.

 

So, in your first point you say that you had one prompt from NMM and it would deploy everything. At that point - if you had to remove the mod you just installed, you would have to know what files were updated and ensure that not only did you remove the mod you just installed, but you would have to fully reinstall the mod that was overwritten. NMM has a limitation in as much as it doesnt tell you that. the end result - you remove the mod and BAM! CTD. And this is the case for your current game and any new games you may make using the mod you just applied. If you uninstall it an hour after applying it - you remember to reinstall the original mod and you're okay - maybe - what about 6 months from now? do you still remember? Vortex does.

 

So, you want to deploy a mod that updates and you want to only do it once - you can do that in vortex too.

 

Lets say I install V1.0 of MySuperMod

Then a while later I install an update V1.1 of MySuperMod - Vortex will tell me that V1.0 is already in place, and do I want to replace it, or create separate versions. If I replace it no problem, if I create separate versions I will get notified of conflicts and it will tell me what files are conflicting. i have a choice;

1. i tell vortex to enable 1.0 and disable 1.1

2. i tell vortex to enable 1.1 and disable 1.0

either work.

i can get clever - but ive never done this - but i can tell vortex to enable 1.0 and 1.1 and then i can tell it to load the conflicting files from 1.1 instead of 1.0 - not saying you should do this, but i think its possible - and vortex will do that.

if i don't like what i've done, i can simply undo whatever choice i make and everything gets reverted back to how it was before i mucked everything up.

 

so, you have optimal vortex - which does the same as nmm - but it does it with a ton more safety and resilience built in, which allows you to install something and either run with it, or, revert it and your game folders are set back to how they were.

 

now - here's a free bonus for you;

 

let's say you've completly mucked your mod structure up - remember the old days of delete everything reinstall the game, pull down the mods and reinstall them and try to remember your load order?

 

all you need to do with vortex is purge your mods.

 

they're hard links, so all that happens is the hard links are deleted. this is conceptually like deleting the shortcuts on your desktop. the files remain intact but your hard links are removed. no need to delete/reinstall spend hours trying to craft a load order just purge.

 

after you've purged, guess what? you can redeploy your mods. as vortex contains LOOT sorting built in - you can deploy the mods and they will be redeployed and sorted. BOOM! days of thankless mod delete/download/sort/fix replaced by two commands.

 

all this - ive done myself playing around with vortex. it is awesome. truly it is.