Cyclic Interaction without rules?

[Only1meekO]

Hi guys,

 

I'm coming back to Skyrim and discovering the new (and what seemed to be awesome, I'm biased after several hours of hair pulling) Vortex tool.

Unfortunately my load order doesn't seem to work. I've been following quite some guides and thought the embedded LOOT tools are quite nifty.

To avoid/resolve any conflict I ended up defining some dependencies and rules as well as a consecutive set of LOOT-groups in which I trust Vortex will be more able than I to do the fine-tuning.

 

The issue I now have is that Vortex manages to get cyclic errors on .esp's that aren't related in any way. I've quadruple checked - no rules, (no scotch), no dependancies between ANY of the .esp's included in the cyclic interaction.

In the current cycle I even have the pleasure to have a disabled .esp joining the party...

 

I'm starting to think I'm either 100% wrong or that I'm simply missing some kind of interface that would put this all to light.

 

So yeah, halp?

 

Thanking you in advance!

Kr,

MeekO

 

 

[Only1meekO]

Update: So I WAS missing something in the sense that even tough the mods don't have dependencies I see now that some .esp's have dependencies. (I was stupid enough to not see the left-right scroll bar so couldn't see the dependencies icon)

I don't recall setting them up so I wonder what's happening here but could anyone point me to the place where I can erase these dependencies please?

 

Thanks a lot!

Kr,

MeekO

[AugustaCalidia]

If you've created a number of custom groups and rules, my best advice is to remove the rules and restore your plugin groups to the default groups for Skyrim. Then let Vortex do all the hard work for plugin load order while you concentrate on the job Vortex can't do for you, which is resolving file conflicts in your install order.

 

If that sounds simplistic, well, it is. But it works. I've been using Vortex for a year now managing Skryim SE, Fallout 4, Fallout 3, Fallout NV, and most recently Enderal. Only two times did I have to intervene to adjust a load order.

 

To deal with your current plugin dependencies, check your "Dependencies" column in the Plugins page to see whether there are any lightning bolt icons. If so, click on them and make appropriate adjustments. Also, open both "Manage Rules" and "Manage Groups" to see if you can make any adjustments from there.

[Only1meekO]

Thanks for the advice Augusta! To be honest I already tried letting Vortex "do his thing" and it only resulted in CTD's on start-up. :sad: But I indeed read that is the best way to go, only managing through the mods tab.

 

The .esp dependencies can't be accessed through either of the "Manage Rules" and "Manage Groups" tabs... It's as if the dependency "only" exists when hovering on the dependency icon in the plugin tab. Are these dependencies what I've seen going around as "LOOT Master dependencies" on other forums/posts?

 

Please tell me that isn't the case otherwise I'm screwed. :laugh:

 

 

EDIT - For the lolz I went around and erased all my groups just to be sure these weren't the ones messing around. I can confirm Vortex f*#@s up well enough on it's own creating it's own dependencies which I apparently can't access. The answer lies within groups, as Vortex defines LOOT groups to some mods which will cause the cycle. You simply have to go through all of them and switch to a more appropriate group / default group when necessary. Note that this solved the loop-issue but brought back the CTD's.

 

EDIT2 - Probably found what causes my CTD's. Seems Vortex has picked up traces of mods I had installed years ago which are no longer really on my hard drive nor available. Yep one of them is the Skyrim Unofficial Patch. (how does that even work??!! >-<"" )

[HadToRegister]

Thanks for the advice Augusta! To be honest I already tried letting Vortex "do his thing" and it only resulted in CTD's on start-up. :sad: But I indeed read that is the best way to go, only managing through the mods tab.

 

The .esp dependencies can't be accessed through either of the "Manage Rules" and "Manage Groups" tabs... It's as if the dependency "only" exists when hovering on the dependency icon in the plugin tab. Are these dependencies what I've seen going around as "LOOT Master dependencies" on other forums/posts?

 

Please tell me that isn't the case otherwise I'm screwed. :laugh:

 

 

EDIT - For the lolz I went around and erased all my groups just to be sure these weren't the ones messing around. I can confirm Vortex f*#@s up well enough on it's own creating it's own dependencies which I apparently can't access. The answer lies within groups, as Vortex defines LOOT groups to some mods which will cause the cycle. You simply have to go through all of them and switch to a more appropriate group / default group when necessary. Note that this solved the loop-issue but brought back the CTD's.

 

 

You're fighting AGAINST Vortex at this point.

 

Stop worrying about groups and external LOOT, and stop trying to micromanage your PLUGIN load order., otherwise you're going to get frustrated using Vortex.

Did you ever think the crashes are caused by patches or missing masters or other things you may have missed rather than just blaming your CTD's on Vortex's handling of Plugins?

[HadToRegister]

you're getting cyclic interactions without rules, because there are plugins that have built in loot rules, and since you're adding all your plugins to groups, you're causing the cyclic interactions with the built in rules without making your own.

YOu can't go assigning plugins to groups like they're "Categories" because groups also sort mods to certain areas of the load order, and that's what you're inadvertently doing, which is causing the cyclic interactions with no rules.

[Only1meekO]

you're getting cyclic interactions without rules, because there are plugins that have built in loot rules, and since you're adding all your plugins to groups, you're causing the cyclic interactions with the built in rules without making your own.

YOu can't go assigning plugins to groups like they're "Categories" because groups also sort mods to certain areas of the load order, and that's what you're inadvertently doing, which is causing the cyclic interactions with no rules.

 

In fact I did, that's why I removed them all. Seems the issue is that Vortex picks up old mods I no longer have but still forces some dependencies on me on an .esp level. It'd be easier if I could simply remove these dependencies but I feel there's no such option (please confirm?). I'll be trying to remove any trace of any previous install and start again from scratch.

[Zanderat]

My advice (if you are back to default rules) is to purge, then manually clean up your Data folder back to default, verify/repair to make sure that you didn't delete anything you shouldn't have , and then re-deploy. You should be all set at that point.

[Only1meekO]

My advice (if you are back to default rules) is to purge, then manually clean up your Data folder back to default, verify/repair to make sure that you didn't delete anything you shouldn't have , and then re-deploy. You should be all set at that point.

 

Hey thanks! What do you mean with purge?

[AugustaCalidia]

 

Hey thanks! What do you mean with purge?

 

 

 

Purging removes the mod hardlinks that Vortex placed in the game data folder.