Make maunually changing load order easier!

[HadToRegister]

 

Really? I may have to look up that post. Seems really odd to me, considering the way the game works. If that's actually the case, the game has gotten a LOT more forgiving since morrowind. :D

 

 

According to Arthmoor it doesn't matter

 

 

 

 

Wish I could remember what thread it was, because I was telling someone not to move stuff around in their load order because the scripts would end up with a different prefix number, and mess everything up, but several people corrected me saying it didn't matter

[Rattledagger]

Load orders don't need to match exactly.

It won't mess up any scripts.

It's when you ADD or REMOVE a mod from your load order and use a save made with or without the newly added or removed mod, that will screw you up.

 

IE: If your Fallout 4 load order is:

 

MOD A

MOD B

MOD C

 

and your Fallout VR load order is

 

MOD B

MOD C

MOD A

 

it won't matter.

 

 

Actually, in case plugin A loads A.bsa and this bsa (does Fallout4 call it bsa ?) includes let's say test-script, followed by plugin B loads B.bsa and this bsa also includes test-script, the plugin order does matter.

 

So while position 12 or 22 doesn't matter, the order two plugins comes relative to each-others can still matter, even if where's no conflicts between two plugins according to xEdit.

 

As for Arthmoor's quote, it's in one of the large threads where many users was begging for manual load-order, so where's some lots of pages of posts to search-through if you want the exact post.

[LunaticLooter]

As long as your mods don't conflict load order doesn't matter. Vortex does a good job of pointing out mods that conflict.

That.... that's a joke, right?

 

So Vortex putting Armorsmith extended lowest in my load order, below an Overhaul like Horizon is...fine?

 

I'm not sure which planet you're living on, where that "doesn't matter"

 

I don't know why everyone keeps ignoring the facts here, that spending hours upon hours making custom rules, groups and load orders is not great. Manual load order editing needs to be a thing, and it's 90% the reason people choose not to use, endorse nor support, Vortex development.

Put a mod like Horizon or similar overhauls in Vortex and it -absolutely- will mess up the load order and destroy any semblance of balance in the game, because it throws mods left and right without any regards to what they actually do.

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

As long as your mods don't conflict load order doesn't matter. Vortex does a good job of pointing out mods that conflict.

 

That.... that's a joke, right?

 

So Vortex putting Armorsmith extended lowest in my load order, below an Overhaul like Horizon is...fine?

 

I'm not sure which planet you're living on, where that "doesn't matter"

 

I don't know why everyone keeps ignoring the facts here, that spending hours upon hours making custom rules, groups and load orders is not great. Manual load order editing needs to be a thing, and it's 90% the reason people choose not to use, endorse nor support, Vortex development.

Put a mod like Horizon or similar overhauls in Vortex and it -absolutely- will mess up the load order and destroy any semblance of balance in the game, because it throws mods left and right without any regards to what they actually do.

I'm on earth. Not sure where you are and don't really care. You didn't read my comment in full so I won't bother with a better explanation of it.

[HadToRegister]

 

T

So Vortex putting Armorsmith extended lowest in my load order, below an Overhaul like Horizon is...fine?

 

 

I don't know why everyone keeps ignoring the facts here, that spending hours upon hours making custom rules, groups and load orders is not great. Manual load order editing needs to be a thing, and it's 90% the reason people choose not to use, endorse nor support, Vortex development.

Put a mod like Horizon or similar overhauls in Vortex and it -absolutely- will mess up the load order and destroy any semblance of balance in the game, because it throws mods left and right without any regards to what they actually do.

 

 

 

Well hey, then go back to using NMM, because NMM doesn't inform you about ANY mod conflicts, the old saying "Ignorance is bliss" applies to NMM, because you never know what's conflicting.

 

If you'd stop messing with your load order and groups, Vortex would sort those properly for you, but since you don't, I'm not going to try to convince you.

Keep using NMM,

Also, nice Made up Statistic about the 90% of people not wanting to use Vortex because it doesn't have manual sorting, we get those and "EVERYBODY doesn't like Vortex, EVERYBODY wants NMM back" argument fallacies in here all the time.

 

Either learn how to use Vortex or don't, but I only help the people who want to learn, instead of insisting that NMM was the Alpha and Omega of Mod Managers, because it wasn't, it's like taping a funnel to the wall, putting a filter in it, dumping some coffee in it, and pouring hot water through it into a glass and calling it a Keurig Machine.

 

We're here for Vortex Support, not to go back and forth about NMM vs Vortex and why you think Vortex is bad.

 

 

Also, I use Armorsmith Extended and Vortex NEVER put it at the very bottom of my load order, so you must've done something to cause that, by adding it to the Dynamic Patches group or forcing it down there somehow

[LunaticLooter]

 

1. "Well hey, then go back to using NMM, because NMM doesn't inform you about ANY mod conflicts, the old saying "Ignorance is bliss" applies to NMM, because you never know what's conflicting."

2. "If you'd stop messing with your load order and groups, Vortex would sort those properly for you, but since you don't, I'm not going to try to convince you. Keep using NMM, Also, nice Made up Statistic about the 90% of people not wanting to use Vortex because it doesn't have manual sorting, we get those and "EVERYBODY doesn't like Vortex, EVERYBODY wants NMM back" argument fallacies in here all the time."

3. Either learn how to use Vortex or don't, but I only help the people who want to learn, instead of insisting that NMM was the Alpha and Omega of Mod Managers, because it wasn't, it's like taping a funnel to the wall, putting a filter in it, dumping some coffee in it, and pouring hot water through it into a glass and calling it a Keurig Machine.

4. We're here for Vortex Support, not to go back and forth about NMM vs Vortex and why you think Vortex is bad.


Also, I use Armorsmith Extended and Vortex NEVER put it at the very bottom of my load order, so you must've done something to cause that, by adding it to the Dynamic Patches group or forcing it down there somehow

 

1. I'm using MO2, not NMM. I do see Vortex's potential, and therefore want things to improve.

 

2. That's just completely false, and if you'd spend ANY time with more than 100 mods for Fallout 4 with Vortex, you'd see why. Vortex -will not- "sort them properly". It really is quite that simple.

 

3. I have not even remotely mentioned that NMM is superior in any way, that's something you pulled out of a hat.

 

4. This is the Vortex discussion forum, not the Vortex support forum. Again, I WANT Vortex to get better, but people on this forum keep defending it religiously without LISTENING to the feedback.

 

Also, I had to manually put Armorsmith Extended in the Underrides group to prevent it from popping to the bottom of the load order, with no other mod rules installed. And again, Vortex places Horizon's esp's at the top of the load order, I had to manually create a Horizon group after Dynamic patches, for it to understand where to put it.

I don't mind making custom rules for SOME mods, because Vortex does indeed make that a lot easier.
I love that Vortex puts LOOTesque warnings (like mods needing cleaning) and features directly into the browser.
I love many things, but without manually being able to sort a load order everything falls flat.

 

Unless you are completely ignorant about modding, you HAVE to know that direct file conflicts are the lesser evil. Conflicting xEdit records are immensely important, and it is, again, the reason why so many MO2 users refuse to support Vortex development. Making 100 custom rules is a massive, unnecessary hassle, and is SO much easier by manually editing the load order for anyone that even remotely knows about conflict resolution.

 

Once again, I AM NOT AGAINST VORTEX. I'm providing feedback, and claiming that "if there's no file conflicts, everything is fine" is completely ignorant.

 

[AugustaCalidia]

@LunaticLooter

 

 

Unless you are completely ignorant about modding, you HAVE to know that direct file conflicts are the lesser evil. Conflicting xEdit records are immensely important, and it is, again, the reason why so many MO2 users refuse to support Vortex development. Making 100 custom rules is a massive, unnecessary hassle, and is SO much easier by manually editing the load order for anyone that even remotely knows about conflict resolution.

 

So are you saying that Tannin42, the developer of Vortex, MO, and MO2 is "completely ignorant about modding?"

 

As for Armorsmith Extended, Vortex has never placed it at or near the bottom of my Fallout 4 plugin order. In fact it's #20 in a list of 163 plugins.

[FlamingCheeseMonkey]

Just my two cents, but if you're creating a rule, or adding a group for every mod that you have, then you don't understand how LOOT works.

 

Like you said Direct File Conflicts are the lesser evil as a mod user. But that's the thing. Direct File Conflicts. That means that in a list of 100, you'll probably only be concerned about X mods. You don't need to worry about the other YY mods, so you don't need to create individual rules between them.

 

By checking with XEdit, you can determine what mods are the base, and as such, needs to be moved into an earlier group, along with what mods you want to reign supreme, and as such gets moved into later groups.

 

It's only when you want plugins to be in a certain order, while remaining the same group, do you work with individual rules, and even then, you don't need to make it complicated. Just create a chain.

 

Plugin A has to load before Plugin B. Plugin B has to load before Plugin C. Plugin C has to load before Plugin D.

 

This way, instead of having to create anywhere between 6-24 rules, you're only create 3 rules.

 

And, hey, look at that. Aside from the extra clicks due to the UI choice that Vortex went with, you just did the same number of actions as the manual load ordering in MO2.

 

So, yes, as long as you don't complicate things further than necessary, Vortex does take a few seconds longer than MO2 to do the same things. But there is only so much that can be done without scrapping and re-doing the entire UI.

[HadToRegister]

 

 

 

HadToRegister 2. "If you'd stop messing with your load order and groups, Vortex would sort those properly for you, but since you don't, I'm not going to try to convince you. Keep using NMM, Also, nice Made up Statistic about the 90% of people not wanting to use Vortex because it doesn't have manual sorting, we get those and "EVERYBODY doesn't like Vortex, EVERYBODY wants NMM back" argument fallacies in here all the time."

 

 

Lunatic Looter 2. That's just completely false, and if you'd spend ANY time with more than 100 mods for Fallout 4 with Vortex, you'd see why. Vortex -will not- "sort them properly". It really is quite that simple.

I'm currently running 267 mods with Fallout 4, 225 with Skyrim SE, 127 with FONV, and 112 with FO3.

 

 

 

 

Also, I had to manually put Armorsmith Extended in the Underrides group to prevent it from popping to the bottom of the load order, with no other mod rules installed. And again, Vortex places Horizon's esp's at the top of the load order, I had to manually create a Horizon group after Dynamic patches, for it to understand where to put it.

 

I USE Armorsmith extended, Vortex has NEVER put Armorsmith at the bottom of my load order, , and as I pointed out earlier, this is with 267 mods with FO4.

 

Tannin42 has already said, (And FYI, I'm the person who used to start, and participate in the most "I NEED MANUAL LOAD ORDER SORTING" threads), until I learned how to use Vortex.

Pro-Tip, if you're making "100 Custom Rules" then you're using Vortex really, really, wrong.

With my 267 PLUGINS, I have a total of 18 rules made.

Not 100.

I would suggest not following those "The perfect load order" guides, because those are meant for NMM and all it's flaws.

 

Also, Tannin42 is the author of MO, MO2, and Vortex, he knows what he's doing.

 

 

 

 

 

Unless you are completely ignorant about modding, you HAVE to know that direct file conflicts are the lesser evil. Conflicting xEdit records are immensely important

Been modding Bethesda games since 2003, currently most of the esps in my load order have, hand made merges, personal edits, hand added INNR tags (Just released two mods with INNR tags/edits yesterday), among other things.

 

The thing is, Tannin42 has already said, that Manual Load Order sorting will never come to Vortex.

Last year I would've been in here helping with your Argument FOR Manual Load Ordering.

A Year Later of using Vortex and I can sort my load order if needed with just 18 custom rules, and this is after spending quite a few hours in FO4Edit seeing what conflicts, and making my own custom compatibility patches.

[Guest deleted34304850]

can i ask if you're telling the truth about having to create 100 rules? you actually sat there and created 100 rules for your load order?

would you mind sharing what mods require such a degree of micromanaging?

not having a pop here, just genuinely curious because the only time I did that was to see if i could create a method in vortex to absolutely craft a load order. i spent ages doing it, and it was a complete nightmare, but once done, it was done.

then i got a new rig and said to myself that i wouldn't do that again, just let vortex do it - it took HOURS off my preparation time. vortex is sublime.

btw - if you have a mod being sorted by loot in the wrong place, surely you'd throw the mod author a message, and have them work with the loot team to ensure that loot sorted their mod correctly, no? that's how it has worked for years.