Suggestion thread for Vortex improvements

[HadToRegister]

Thanks!

[Deleted70549253User]

I don't want to spam the forums with a new thread regarding this suggestion, but could we possibly get some sort of sorting the tools, perhaps by alphabetical, in the "Starter" widget in the future? Thank you
Edit: wording

Edited July 28, 2019 by Guest

[Duriel7]

@Duriel7

 

In the referenced GitHub post, Tannin says, "Supporting multiple variants of a game is on our todo list but it's probably still some time off." Multiple variants is a great idea, and I would like to see it happen. Since Vortex is open source, perhaps there are those reading these posts who could bring their programming expertise to bear on this project.

 

In the meantime, hard links allow this to some extent. Because of hard links, each Vortex profile for the same game can be considered a separate data folder. In the case of mods with scripts, there is no need for concern. If such a mod is disabled, then the scripts are no longer in a given profile because the mod's hard link has been removed.

 

Hi,

Yes, I'd like to, but I know for being Java coder that it's not easy to find time to do such things. I know you're right concerning the profiles settings. I certainly know that the scripts won't execute themselves by magical means, but... I always had my doubts :D It's my paranoïd dark side.

But for sure i'll take a better look in this profile setting, because I want to test multiple modpacks at the same time. Anyways thanks for your concern :) glad to see I'm not the only one.

[Bloodninja007]

Some mods need to be loaded last for them to work. I cannot figure out how to make a mod load last. I tried using "must load after" but when the plugins are sorted, the mod that I want to load last is not last. Don't get me wrong, Vortex is good but would still be nice to be able to drag and drop plugins or click on them to move them up or down in the load order. Some authors of mods we use will state that the mod should load last.

[AugustaCalidia]

Some mods need to be loaded last for them to work. I cannot figure out how to make a mod load last. I tried using "must load after" but when the plugins are sorted, the mod that I want to load last is not last. Don't get me wrong, Vortex is good but would still be nice to be able to drag and drop plugins or click on them to move them up or down in the load order. Some authors of mods we use will state that the mod should load last.

While the appropriate place for this would be a new thread in the Vortex Support Forum, I'll try to answer your concerns here as best I can.

 

In spite of what some mod authors claim, few mods need to be absolutely last. The critical issue is to make a plugin load after the plugins that it affects. Normally, Vortex sorting will take care of that. Have you tried that?

 

If Vortex sorting doesn't work, then set a "load after" rule.

 

In your case, does the "load after" rule you set achieve the desired result, even though the plugin is not absolutely last? If so, then enjoy your game.

 

If not, then assign the plugin to a late loading group. In Fallout 4, for example, that group is "Dynamic Patches." You can find the LOOT groups for your game by clicking on "Manage Groups" on the plugins page taskbar. However, to assign a plugin to a group, use the plugin side panel rather than the groups drop down menu. Using the side panel is less confusing and messy. Before doing any of this, however, you should consult the appropriate articles in the Vortex Knowledge Base accessed from the Vortex dashboard. Moreover, if you're going to use group assignment to solve a load order problem, absolutely do not try to second guess LOOT and create your own groups. That's asking for trouble.

[Tannin42]

Absolutely no mod needs to load last.

Mod authors tell you their mods should load last because it's a reasonable simplification of the instructions. It's basically saying "my mod is taking care of compatibility with conflicting mods so if you load it last you will probably not have issues".

This is a sensible way of giving load order instructions for users doing manual load ordering.

 

But it should not be mistaken for a necessity. Technically the mod only needs to be loaded after the mods it has conflicts with but the mod author would have to list all the conflitcing mods but that wouldn't really help much but make everyones life harder.

 

LOOT however identifies the plugins that conflict and in almost all case will put them in the right order automatically. It simply has more information available than you do to do more "precise" placement of the mod.

That's all there is to it. The mod author says "Load my mod last to ensure it's loaded after the mods it conflicts with". LOOT simply loads the mod after the mods it conflicts with because it knows which mods those are.

[AugustaCalidia]

@Tannin42

 

You have a remarkable gift of clarity. I'm saving your post in my "Vortex Notable Quotables" folder.

[Mornedil]

Absolutely no mod needs to load last.

 

Except the times when they actually do...

 

My plugin list is a good example.

It contains several plugins that conflict with each other, but I have a compatibility fix plugin that absolutely needs to load after the other conflicting plugins to fix them.

 

First mod is Spring Cleaning, which allows scrapping more clutter in settlements.

Then I have several performance mods which completely break Spring Cleaning, making it so you can't scrap clutter. And things you've already scrapped respawn when you load a save.

But to fix it, I have a Spring Cleaning Compatibility Fix mod, which needs to load after all previous mentioned mods, or you still can't scrap clutter.

 

Here is how the automatic sorting orders the plugins:

 

 

The conflicting plugins are marked in red. The plugin with the dark highlight needs to be below all of these to fix the compatibility issues.

I've placed the compatibility patch plugin in a "late loader" group, but it still shows up close to the top, with automatic sorting enabled, and after clicking "sort now".

(as a side node -- the "locked to index" setting doesn't work, I can't de-select "automatic")

 

Here's the group priority order, with the "late loader" group placed last:

 

 

But the only difference it made was to slightly re-arrange other mods, while not actually caring about putting the compatibility fix last.

 

 

At this point, I had spent around 20 minutes trying to get it to work. Time spent on first launching the game after automatic sorting, seeing that it doesn't work, then trying to adjust it in Vortex, launching the game again, going back to vortex and trying to make the load order change in any way at all.

 

You could tell me to manually make rules that it "must load after...", but setting that up for this amount of mods takes more time than just launching the game, clicking "mods", going to the load order, and manually moving the compatibility patch mod down the list, which I ended up doing to solve the issue. After manually moving it down, all mods worked as expected.

 

I just don't think you should have to resort to managing it through the game UI when you have a mod manager as advanced as Vortex. Overall, it's a really nice software, but I don't see what's so bad about letting users manually drag mods around after the automatic sorting process. Then you'd have the automatic sorting, with an easy method of adjusting it.

And if a user screws it up while manually adjusting it, that's their own fault and only hurts themselves.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Mornedil

[HadToRegister]

process. Then you'd have the automatic sorting, with an easy method of adjusting it.

And if a user screws it up while manually adjusting it, that's their own fault and only hurts themselves.

 

 

 

And the first thing they do is run in here and blame EVERYTHING on Vortex when 90% of the problems reported have been mainly PEBCAK

 

 

Also, if you want something at the bottom of the load order, it's just as easy to Assign it to the Dynamic Patches group, and there it is, automatically at the bottom of your load order, and if you have several plugins assigned to Dynamic Patches and Mod B needs to LOAD AFTER Mod A, then just make a rule, or just DRAG AND DROP Mod B below Mod A, and accept the rule.

 

The "Manual Load Order Sorting" argument is getting tiresome, I know, I used to be the one starting all the "We need manual load order sorting" threads, until I learned how to use Vortex, and realized how unnecessary it is.

Out of 279 mods I have installed for Fallout 4 I have EIGHT manually Sorted with rules, there's no need to manually order 279 plugins.

You only need to be able to set rules for a handful at best.

All of this misinformation comes from Reddit and Modder "Guides" that insist that your load order be exactly like theirs.

[DSPiron]

Also, if you want something at the bottom of the load order, it's just as easy to Assign it to the Dynamic Patches group, and there it is, automatically at the bottom of your load order, and if you have several plugins assigned to Dynamic Patches and Mod B needs to LOAD AFTER Mod A, then just make a rule, or just DRAG AND DROP Mod B below Mod A, and accept the rule.

Erm, they did that. Or rather, they made a new group and set that to load after the 'Dynamic Patches' group, which should have same effect, right?

 

I've placed the compatibility patch plugin in a "late loader" group, but it still shows up close to the top, with automatic sorting enabled, and after clicking "sort now".

(as a side node -- the "locked to index" setting doesn't work, I can't de-select "automatic")

 

Here's the group priority order, with the "late loader" group placed last:

attachment_2.png

 

But the only difference it made was to slightly re-arrange other mods, while not actually caring about putting the compatibility fix last.

---------

 

 

Absolutely no mod needs to load last.

Except the times when they actually do...

 

 

My plugin list is a good example.

It contains several plugins that conflict with each other, but I have a compatibility fix plugin that absolutely needs to load after the other conflicting plugins to fix them.

 

And I'm pretty sure Tannin's point is:

Your compatibility plugin doesn't need to load after every mod.

SpringCleaningCompatibilityPatch.esp only needs to load after the ones you've marked in red.

 

However, this is weird; Putting it in a later loading group should've worked, at least, based on what little I know.

I'd check to see if any of the plugins that load after it are in the 'User Interface', 'Items', or 'NPC & Faction Overhauls' groups, as those aren't set to load before your 'Late loader' group, and thus can be allowed to load after.

 

In fact, if you know which mods disrupt it, you can just simply set rules for the patch to load after for each.

 

A recent feature is the ability to batch add rules buy clicking the dependency icon, then edit, then check every mod you want it to load after.

 

I hope this helps.

Edited August 5, 2019 by DSPiron