Vortex 1.0 Release

[DSPiron]

In response to post #72461793.

1ae0bfb8 wrote:

hi,

i'm not even talking about load order, that should be clear as i haven't mentioned it. i specifically said - keep it simple can i install a mod if i set up the mod manager correctly.

load order comes later. that may be a big deal to you and everyone else, but it's a different topic.

i used nmm, vortex and mo2 on my system to take a very simple mod - actually, it was ufo4p, and install it in my fallout 4 game.

i don't test for load order - i test for - did it put the files in the correct place, assuming that i set up the mod manager correctly each time. the answer was, yes, each one of them installed the mod correctly. all the files were in the correct directory after installation.

that is a mod manager.

load order is an entirely different topic that i have not mentioned in my testing.

previously, i have used loot & nmm, loot & mo2 and even done manual manipulation of my loadorder.txt file. vortex negates any need for me to perform that extra step - but the other mod managers do require it, which means that my very simple test would be invalidated because vortex is doing extra steps that the others cannot do, which is why, until this reply, i have not once, mentioned load order.

i'm just trying to validate "proper" based on my own very simple test of - can i install a mod, yes or no.

the answer is - yes.

 

by the way - i assume you have empirical data to back this chunk of gubbins up?

 

 

There are plenty of people whose load orders aren't sorted properly by Vortex, and can't be sorted.

Also, as has been discussed so many times by so many people in the vortex forums and in this thread, vortex allows people to MANUALLY ovderride what it gives you as a load order in several different ways, including drag/drop, so I don't even know what argument you're having, or with whom.

 

Not blind, but can read. You should try it sometime.

Your very simple test is flawed. The load order is part of correctly installing it.
Otherwise it will encounter issues if you install mods with 'plugins' that need to load before, or, after it. An installation with these issues shouldn't be considered correct.

NMM and MO2 are capable of re-arranging 'plugins' in the load order without LOOT, and I have no idea why you think you can't.
Vortex is barely capable of re-arranging 'plugins' in the load order. It can to some degree, but eventually you will need to "micromanage" your mods/'plugins'.
People who are effectively experts at managing the load order, creators of shining examples of a well sorted load order, have stated that you need to "micromanage" your mods/'plugins'.

EDIT:
First, Vortex's "drag-and-drop" and "manual sorting" isn't what other's are referring to when they "drag-and-drop" and "manual sorting".
The dragging and dropping isn't the important part, Vortex has it, but it's to create a rule.
Vortex allows for manual rule creation, but at best it raises the question of having the LOOT integration when the user can still ignore it like the other programs
What's being asked is the ability to place 'plugins'
where they need to be, no questions.
Not above where the user want it.
Not below where the user want it.
Exactly where the user wants it, where they know it works.
If the user doesn't know: the user should've learned how to sort 'plugins', or they are seeing if it does work there.
This has been said before.
Edited August 10, 2019 by DSPiron

[HadToRegister]

 

In response to post #72461793.

 

 

 

1ae0bfb8 wrote:

hi,

i'm not even talking about load order, that should be clear as i haven't mentioned it. i specifically said - keep it simple can i install a mod if i set up the mod manager correctly.

load order comes later. that may be a big deal to you and everyone else, but it's a different topic.

i used nmm, vortex and mo2 on my system to take a very simple mod - actually, it was ufo4p, and install it in my fallout 4 game.

i don't test for load order - i test for - did it put the files in the correct place, assuming that i set up the mod manager correctly each time. the answer was, yes, each one of them installed the mod correctly. all the files were in the correct directory after installation.

that is a mod manager.

load order is an entirely different topic that i have not mentioned in my testing.

previously, i have used loot & nmm, loot & mo2 and even done manual manipulation of my loadorder.txt file. vortex negates any need for me to perform that extra step - but the other mod managers do require it, which means that my very simple test would be invalidated because vortex is doing extra steps that the others cannot do, which is why, until this reply, i have not once, mentioned load order.

i'm just trying to validate "proper" based on my own very simple test of - can i install a mod, yes or no.

the answer is - yes.

by the way - i assume you have empirical data to back this chunk of gubbins up?

 

 

There are plenty of people whose load orders aren't sorted properly by Vortex, and can't be sorted.

Also, as has been discussed so many times by so many people in the vortex forums and in this thread, vortex allows people to MANUALLY ovderride what it gives you as a load order in several different ways, including drag/drop, so I don't even know what argument you're having, or with whom.

Not blind, but can read. You should try it sometime.

Your very simple test is flawed. The load order is part of correctly installing it.

Otherwise it will encounter issues if you install mods with 'plugins' that need to load before, or, after it. An installation with these issues shouldn't be considered correct.

 

NMM and MO2 are capable of re-arranging 'plugins' in the load order without LOOT, and I have no idea why you think you can't.

Vortex is barely capable of re-arranging 'plugins' in the load order. It can to some degree, but eventually you will need to "micromanage" your mods/'plugins'.

People who are effectively experts at managing the load order, creators of shining examples of a well sorted load order, have stated that you need to "micromanage" your mods/'plugins'.

 

 

Please stop with your nonfactual arguments, and stop with this "Mystical Magical" load order nonsense that only some "Elite Modders" can accomplish.

It's not that difficult, Vortex just takes some of the drudgery out of it

 

[HadToRegister]

 

Using your definition, no mod managers install mods correctly. At least, none that are for Bethesda games.

No mod manager is able to put the mod into the correct spot in the load order. Vortex is the closest, but it will inevitably go wrong as sorting a load order can't be done automatically.

Your definition for any Bethesda game mod manager should be "Does [mod manager in question] install a mod's files into a game I choose correctly, and allow me to correctly place it's 'plugins' in the load order"

Vortex technically passes, but it's by forcing it to do something it's not intended.

 

If you haven't seen the evidence then you must be blind. There are plenty of people whose load orders aren't sorted properly by Vortex, and can't be sorted.

As someone with 30 years in IT, you should know that this quantity of issues signify a serious issue with the program.

That's your evidence that no amount of modifications, no amount of rules, will ensure LOOT can sort properly.

 

 

Good Lord, I have to chuckle when I read your posts, because your facts are completely made up as you type them

You yourself on page 15 said you weren't a big mod user and were just trying to follow the discussion, and yet now here you are, making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims that you won't be able to provide any proof for.

 

So in just 8 pages, you went from being "Not a big mod user" to an expert in knowing "plenty of people whose load orders aren't sorted properly by Vortex", which by the way, is the typical Argumentum ad Populum that people use against Vortex, IE... "NOBODY likes vortex", "The MAJORITY OF YOUR USERS don't like Vortex" "WE don't like Vortex, give US back NMM" etc..."There are PLENTY OF PEOPLE whose load orders aren't sorted properly"

 

Did you go around and take a poll between page 15 and page 23?

Where did you get this data? Or, are you just making stuff up? Or, is it, as I suspect, just your opinion?

 

Nobody is forcing you to use Vortex, so why are you complaining about it so loudly?

Go use MO, MO2, or NMM, because clearly, to you, they must be 'superior mod managers solely because you can manually sort your load order, even if they are missing the other great features of Vortex such as Conflict Resolution, and easily reversing textures and meshes being overwrittn by just changing a rule, because it's obviously much better to have to uninstall all the textures and meshes that NMM overwrote because you installed them in the wrong order, and have to reinstall all the mods again in the correct order, rather than just changing LOAD BEFORE, to LOAD AFTER like you can in Vortex.

 

You're making complaints and arguments all the while making it quite clear that you are barely familiar (if at all) with what Vortex can do, and it's actually pretty absurd.

Your points are moot because as I said, nobody is forcing you to use Vortex, so WHY are you still complaining and carrying on about it, instead of going off and modding, sorting your load order manually, and playing a game you modded with MO, MO2, or NMM, instead of wasting your time here, arguing about a Mod Manager you don't want to use?

 

This thread was just an ANNOUNCEMENT that Vortex 1.0 was officially released, and people are in here beating dead horses, resurrecting them, and beating them to death again.

 

You don't like Vortex?

FINE, say it, and move on, but to hang and continue to argue for 23 pages about how you don't like Vortex or how you're not going to use it, WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE to, is just foolish.

[Guest deleted34304850]

 

In response to post #72461793.

 

 

 

1ae0bfb8 wrote:

hi,

i'm not even talking about load order, that should be clear as i haven't mentioned it. i specifically said - keep it simple can i install a mod if i set up the mod manager correctly.

load order comes later. that may be a big deal to you and everyone else, but it's a different topic.

i used nmm, vortex and mo2 on my system to take a very simple mod - actually, it was ufo4p, and install it in my fallout 4 game.

i don't test for load order - i test for - did it put the files in the correct place, assuming that i set up the mod manager correctly each time. the answer was, yes, each one of them installed the mod correctly. all the files were in the correct directory after installation.

that is a mod manager.

load order is an entirely different topic that i have not mentioned in my testing.

previously, i have used loot & nmm, loot & mo2 and even done manual manipulation of my loadorder.txt file. vortex negates any need for me to perform that extra step - but the other mod managers do require it, which means that my very simple test would be invalidated because vortex is doing extra steps that the others cannot do, which is why, until this reply, i have not once, mentioned load order.

i'm just trying to validate "proper" based on my own very simple test of - can i install a mod, yes or no.

the answer is - yes.

by the way - i assume you have empirical data to back this chunk of gubbins up?

 

 

There are plenty of people whose load orders aren't sorted properly by Vortex, and can't be sorted.

Also, as has been discussed so many times by so many people in the vortex forums and in this thread, vortex allows people to MANUALLY ovderride what it gives you as a load order in several different ways, including drag/drop, so I don't even know what argument you're having, or with whom.

Not blind, but can read. You should try it sometime.

Your very simple test is flawed. The load order is part of correctly installing it.

Otherwise it will encounter issues if you install mods with 'plugins' that need to load before, or, after it. An installation with these issues shouldn't be considered correct.

 

NMM and MO2 are capable of re-arranging 'plugins' in the load order without LOOT, and I have no idea why you think you can't.

Vortex is barely capable of re-arranging 'plugins' in the load order. It can to some degree, but eventually you will need to "micromanage" your mods/'plugins'.

People who are effectively experts at managing the load order, creators of shining examples of a well sorted load order, have stated that you need to "micromanage" your mods/'plugins'.

 

EDIT:

First, Vortex's "drag-and-drop" and "manual sorting" isn't what other's are referring to when they "drag-and-drop" and "manual sorting".

The dragging and dropping isn't the important part, Vortex has it, but it's to create a rule.

Vortex allows for manual rule creation, but at best it raises the question of having the LOOT integration when the user can still ignore it like the other programs

What's being asked is the ability to place 'plugins'

where they need to be, no questions.

Not above where the user want it.

Not below where the user want it.

Exactly where the user wants it, where they know it works.

If the user doesn't know: the user should've learned how to sort 'plugins', or they are seeing if it does work there.

This has been said before.

 

when i said you should read, i really meant it.

 

without giving up every minutae of my test - lets assume this;

 

i have a copy of fallout 4 on my dev machine.

i have NO MODS installed.

 

i use several mod managers to install UFO4P.

 

where in the load order, do you think it's going to go? in my "simple" test that i was using to see if the mod could be installed correctly, and wasn't even talking about load order?

 

it's my test. to test what i wanted to test.

you do you is my motto. you don't like my test, then here's my care face, just for you

 

:happy:

 

now please, bore off and talk s#*! somewhere else.

Edited August 11, 2019 by 1ae0bfb8

[ksolonenko]

But we still can't change load order as easiliy as in any other mod manager?

[HadToRegister]

But we still can't change load order as easiliy as in any other mod manager?

 

 

Only if you believe the garbage the Vortex haters are spreading

 

You have to understand that the people spreading the misinformation about Vortex have never actually used Vortex, or have only used it for a few minutes if that.

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

But we still can't change load order as easiliy as in any other mod manager?

 

 

Only if you believe the garbage the Vortex haters are spreading

 

You have to understand that the people spreading the misinformation about Vortex have never actually used Vortex, or have only used it for a few minutes if that.

Yeah, I would say it's both easier and faster with vortex then other managers. Though I do think thd UI is wonky and weirdly confusing at times

[HadToRegister]

 

 

But we still can't change load order as easiliy as in any other mod manager?

 

Only if you believe the garbage the Vortex haters are spreading

 

You have to understand that the people spreading the misinformation about Vortex have never actually used Vortex, or have only used it for a few minutes if that.

Yeah, I would say it's both easier and faster with vortex then other managers. Though I do think thd UI is wonky and weirdly confusing at times

 

 

I'm willing to help as far as that goes

[Guest deleted34304850]

But we still can't change load order as easiliy as in any other mod manager?

is that a question, or a statement? if its a statement, where did you get it from?

if it's a question, then it depends on the ability of the end user. if they're a moron, then they're going to have trouble doing anything other than turning on their pc, which is about 90% of the people who blame vortex for everything.

[JenIFaerie]

I have not been on nexusmods for a while. I have not tried to use vortex. However, just reading this "discussion" steers me away from even attempting. MO seems to be working fine, and as stated, I am free to continue using. Thanks for allowing me that (sarcasm). I guess I just don't like having to change to something. I dislike (being modest here) win 10 and it's childish colored interface. I hate flat design. I remember the Radio Shack TRS Model 80, one byte square on screen, white on black, or green on black. Then we began pushing for more color and robust three dimensional designs. It was very exciting to be part of this process. Then suddenly we are sent back to kindergarten by M$ with their contentious flat interface. It's trash and wasteful, and we all know it's intrusive and abusive. It downright sucks and treats users like they are sheep and children.

Where is this leading? Nowhere. I just wanted to say I came to check out the status of Vortex and see it's in a 1.0 state. And yet, the top forum discussion is not even a discussion but a mild argument about vortex abilities. So, I'll just continue to use MO and move on. But hey, thanks for all the mods.