Help! External Changes Confusion

[Zanderat]

Wow. What a discussion!

 

Yes, my issue at the core is that Vortex somehow considered normal load after/before rules for loose files as external changes. I have always felt comfortable mixing and matching because it seemed Vortex was able to track individual loose file over-writes. Note that I didn't install/uninstall/modify any of these files outside of Vortex (as in HTR's example).

 

Now I am not so sure. These so-called "external changes" were merely my load after/before rules for various loose files from each mod. What is extra confusing is that this behavior is inconsistent. Other times, I have uninstalled other mods with over-written loose files with no issues.

 

edit: I hesitate to report this behavior as a bug. I need to understand what is going on better. But boy, it sure feels like a bug/unintended behavior.

[HadToRegister]

Wow. What a discussion!

 

Yes, my issue at the core is that Vortex somehow considered normal load after/before rules for loose files as external changes. I have always felt comfortable mixing and matching because it seemed Vortex was able to track individual loose file over-writes. Note that I didn't install/uninstall/modify any of these files outside of Vortex (as in HTR's example).

 

Now I am not so sure. These so-called "external changes" were merely my load after/before rules for various loose files from each mod. What is extra confusing is that this behavior is inconsistent. Other times, I have uninstalled other mods with over-written loose files with no issues.

 

edit: I hesitate to report this behavior as a bug. I need to understand what is going on better. But boy, it sure feels like a bug/unintended behavior.

 

 

I would report it, but maybe with a suggestion to make the terms clearer, because IMO, the part in parentheses contradicts what the line above it says.

[AugustaCalidia]

Below are the external change instructions given to Zanderat.

 

 

I find the instructions neither inconsistent nor ambiguous. However, if it make things clearer for those who find the instructions problematic, I would suggest the following changes. Drop the second line ("Links were deleted . . .") and amend the second sentence in the first line to read: "You can apply these changes permanently (save) or undo these changes now (revert)."

 

In regard to what triggers the Vortex external change notice in the first place, I agree with Zanderat and HTR that there appears to be inconsistent behavior here. Tannin42, please enlighten us.

[Zanderat]

I think that there are two issues.

1. The wording on the warning is confusing.
2. What triggers "external changes"? As outlined above, in my case, I literally didn't make any changes to any files outside of Vortex. Only used load before/after rules for individual loose files. Still the "external changes' warning was triggered and Vortex lost tracking of the overwrites from the load before/after rules made previous.

[HadToRegister]

Below are the external change instructions given to Zanderat.

 

 

I find the instructions neither inconsistent nor ambiguous. However, if it make things clearer for those who find the instructions problematic, I would suggest the following changes. Drop the second line ("Links were deleted . . .") and amend the second sentence in the first line to read: "You can apply these changes permanently (save) or undo these changes now (revert)."

 

In regard to what triggers the Vortex external change notice in the first place, I agree with Zanderat and HTR that there appears to be inconsistent behavior here. Tannin42, please enlighten us.

 

 

 

I think it could be clearer by saying

 

"LINKS were deleted, ("Save" will remove the links permanently, "Revert" will restore the links)

 

 

 

 

I think that there are two issues.

1. The wording on the warning is confusing.
2. What triggers "external changes"? As outlined above, in my case, I literally didn't make any changes to any files outside of Vortex. Only used load before/after rules for individual loose files. Still the "external changes' warning was triggered and Vortex lost tracking of the overwrites from the load before/after rules made previous.

 

 

 

Yes, the "External Changes" is confusing (to me, anyway) in this instance, because it was Vortex that made the external changes. (by what I assume, was restoring mesh/texture files that were overwritten by Majestic Mountains)

[Rattledagger]

Something is screwed-up, since uninstalling a mod should not give any "external changes" to other mods files.

Now if not mistaken I have gotten "external changes" on a mod after uninstalling the mod, but this "external changes" was for the mod I've just uninstalled and not other mods.

 

Doing a couple tests, I've not managed to trigger any "external changes" after uninstallation, but maybe it's not a bug that appears "on demand". Also, since I'm running the current test-build v1.1.1, it's possible the bug has already been fixed, in case the problem happened with an older version.

 

As for the "External Changes" dialogue can be confusing, yes, but finding any good replacements can also be difficult. Example using "links" will possibly be even more confusing, since my guess is many isn't aware the files are linked, but instead they deleted that they thinks is a real file.

 

Why an "external change" then it comes to hard-linked files? This is simpler to answer, since this happens if you or a tool breaks the hard-link. Where's basically two ways to break a hard-link, either you or a tool deletes a file (and possibly replaces it with new file afterwards), or the file is re-named and afterwards replaced with a different file. Example xEdit will break the hard-link, the same will Vortex if you toggle ESL-flag on or off.

 

Some tools on the other hand will directly edit the file and in this case the hard-link is kept and both the contents in data-directory and mod staging folder is changed to the new content, with new saved date etc. Example Notepad will directly edit ini-files and Vortex won't know of these changes. NifSkope is the same, where hard-link is kept despite the file-contents can be very different from the original file.

[HadToRegister]

I suggested LINKS, because the warning says "Links were deleted"

[Rattledagger]

I suggested LINKS, because the warning says "Links were deleted"

 

Hmm, yes, you're correct, the picture does say "Links were deleted".

 

Now the "Revert will restore the links" would be correct, since in this case Vortex will re-create hard-link between data-directory and mod staging folder.

 

Using link for the first is on the other hand not a good description, since "Save will permanently delete the files from the mod staging folder and the only way to get the files back is to re-install the mod" is that will be the outcome here.

[oblivionfan52]

I have not seen the behavior the OP is experiencing but agree that the wording of message is a bit confusing.

[HadToRegister]

Zanderat, are you using Vortex 1.05?
Because I just got this screen today in 1.05.
Note the difference between yours and mine