The Fall of the West.

[HeyYou]

I think the technology has a LONG way to go before we no longer "need" to repay debts..... I don't see that happening any time in the near future..... But, I would also point out that there have already been several countries that have had 'austerity measures' forced on them, for significantly less debt than what the US holds now.... The US could have paid off those debts (for several countries...) and it wouldn't even have been a blip on our financial Radar..... yet here we are, 22 TRILLION dollars in debt, (and climbing at an alarming rate) and no one seems to care. China made some noise about it a few years back...... but, since then, I haven't heard so much as a squeak about it. Even our politicians don't bring it up....

[Perraine]

I wasn't implying that it would any time "soon", but I firmly believe it will happen. For instance we only have a finite amount of Hydrocarbon energy production left, so eventually we WILL have to move over to some other form of energy generation. And you can bet that long before that "end date" occurs, someone would be developing the technology to replace it (and <sigh> profit from it)

 

Sometimes, It only takes one "light bulb" moment for a new technology to revolutionise a society. For instance - Aluminium used to be classed as a "precious metal" because it virtually never appears in a pure form in nature, and, for hundreds of years it was incredibly difficult and expensive to purify. It was once considered far more valuable than even Gold! However, eventually several scientists, in several different countries figured out a way to purify it cheaply and easily, and so today an Aluminium beer can that, 150 years ago, would have been worth a years wages, is now worth mere cents.

 

(anachronistically, it still caps the Washington Monument in the US, as "proof" of the wealth and industrial might of America, because only America could afford and accomplish such an extravagance)

 

As far as debt goes, I certainly don't think the idiotic plans of most left wing groups will solve that problem. More "socialisation" will simply lead to more debt, to paraphrase Margaret Thatcher " The problem with socialism, is that you eventually run out of other people's money". However, I do think that pulling back spending in certain areas and also re-allocating in others would be time (and money) better spent.

[HeyYou]

I wasn't implying that it would any time "soon", but I firmly believe it will happen. For instance we only have a finite amount of Hydrocarbon energy production left, so eventually we WILL have to move over to some other form of energy generation. And you can bet that long before that "end date" occurs, someone would be developing the technology to replace it (and <sigh> profit from it)

 

Sometimes, It only takes one "light bulb" moment for a new technology to revolutionise a society. For instance - Aluminium used to be classed as a "precious metal" because it virtually never appears in a pure form in nature, and, for hundreds of years it was incredibly difficult and expensive to purify. It was once considered far more valuable than even Gold! However, eventually several scientists, in several different countries figured out a way to purify it cheaply and easily, and so today an Aluminium beer can that, 150 years ago, would have been worth a years wages, is now worth mere cents.

 

(anachronistically, it still caps the Washington Monument in the US, as "proof" of the wealth and industrial might of America, because only America could afford and accomplish such an extravagance)

 

As far as debt goes, I certainly don't think the idiotic plans of most left wing groups will solve that problem. More "socialisation" will simply lead to more debt, to paraphrase Margaret Thatcher " The problem with socialism, is that you eventually run out of other people's money". However, I do think that pulling back spending in certain areas and also re-allocating in others would be time (and money) better spent.

I am thinkin' if we could just cut back on government waste, our budgets would be a lot healthier..... but, that is just a pipe dream. Too many people making too much money off of all that 'waste'. Dumping the Department of Education wouldn't hurt my feelings either. That would save a fair chunk of change, and maybe our education system would start improving again...... Shutting down a selection of our military bases on foreign soil would be another great money saver...... along with getting ourselves OUT of a bunch of wars that aren't accomplishing anything at all. Revamping our tax system could also help.....

 

But, in the end, I think the BEST thing we could do for our country is to implement term limits for congress. :) Some of those guys have been there WAY too long, and that is a large part of the problem in Washington D.C.

[Perraine]

Not sure about the Dept. of Education. I think that is certainly one area that NEEDS government oversight. From what I gather, in America at least, the higher education system is totally vile and corrupt, I think at least having a government controlled, non-partisan agreed upon "standard" for education, including facilities, staff, and class sizes etc. is important. But a re-structure certainly wouldn't hurt.

 

As for military, well yeah, that one is a no-brainer. Spending billions of dollars just to be glorified "police" and crossing guards in other countries is ridiculous. Although I do think the world still does need things like the UN forces, as some countries are just to far gone to control themselves.

 

Term limits? Hahahahaha :laugh: Could you actually see any politician voting for that?

[HeyYou]

Trouble is, what the folks in DC think should be the 'standard' for education, is a major part of the problem...... Due to the way schools are allocated money, it is now more important to see that kids advance to the next grade level every year, whether they passed their classes or not...... My dad was an english professor at a local small college, and he was outright disgusted watching the number of incoming students that couldn't read at a fourth grade level, or do basic math, increased every year......

 

I agree, something definitely needs to change with college/university financing/student loans/etc. Roping these kids into spending a hundred grand to get a degree that will only get them 25K a year after graduation..... and then most of their income goes to repaying the student loans? That's idiotic. (though, I am NOT a fan of student loan forgiveness.....)

 

The UN is pretty useless. They have no power, no authority, and their troops aren't even allowed to carry loaded weapons...... they are observers, and sometimes participants in the atrocities, and that's about it. So of their programs are actually pretty good, but, "peace-keeping"?? They are pretty worthless.

 

Yeah, expecting politicians to essentially cut off their own gravy train is a pretty far stretch. :D Much as I would like to see it, I am not holding my breath. :D

[Perraine]

Wow, that education system sounds totally f"d up! In Australia (well at least when I grew up, and admittedly I'm an old fart) We had to do a special "test" at the end of very year in primary school, to see if we had absorbed and understood most of the basic lessons (i.e. basic maths questions, basic spelling/writing, basic science etc) And if we didn't pass we would be "kept back" and have to repeat the whole year of school. Of course there was a "stigma" behind it so that really urged you to apply yourself, because of the "bullying" you would get if you failed that test. And ALL schools had essentially the same budget, or at least were eligible for the same amount of money, depending on the number of students and ALL schools had/have to be kept at the same level, regardless of size or location.

 

It wasn't all cruel though, because we had 4 (IIRC) "Parent + Teacher" nights each year, where your parents were required to come to school and talk to the teacher (about a 10 min long interview), and discuss whether you might need extra help in a certain subject or all round help with learning.

 

I've also heard that there is quite a "scam" going on between book/academic paper publishers and colleges/universities, where they each conspire to continually up the price of academic literature, and that's another reason why qualifications are so high in the US. Because you are "required " to buy X, Y, Z, books only from XXX Publisher for $1000 a book or some such scam.

 

Yeah, militarily the UN is useless and should NOT get involved in conflicts, but I think things like logistics and humanitarian programs are a good thing, and say what you will, military forces are usually pretty well trained to organise and execute operations like that, as it's part of military training and outfitting to provide support to personnel in a "war" zone, so why not use all those currently idle APC's, Ambulances, tractors, tents etc, not to mention medics, cooks, Stevedores etc for something "good".

[HeyYou]

Education system here took a serious dump when the fed decided to base school funding on student performance. So, if you had poorly performing students, it was in the schools best interest to give the appearance they were doing better than they actually were.... so, kids that had actually failed exams/classes/etc, were STILL passed on to the next grade. Particularly any of those students that showed a modicum of athletic ability....... folks went to a great deal of trouble to see that they passed their classes. (and sometimes that involved having other folks do their work for them......) Teachers pay was also based on student performance..... so, teachers were motivated to make sure their students 'looked good on paper' as well. Grading on curves, LOTS of 'extra credit' work..... giving a good deal of credit for simply showing up in class on a regular basis, etc. It was stupid, and I knew it was stupid the first time the president talked about it. (and I was in my 20's at the time.....) I was dumbfounded that folks couldn't see exactly what was going to happen...... and it did. The US used to be rated in the top 10 on education, now, we are down in the mid 30's.......

 

It didn't help that schools became 'babysitters' for working class parents...... When I grew up, both parents working was a rarity. By the time I graduated, it was becoming more common. Few years later, it pretty much required two incomes to support a middle class household.... Schools started offering breakfast programs to 'under privileged' kids, then they started offering lunch programs as well.... then, just about EVERYONE qualified for the free meals.... and school budgets suffered for it. That money had to come from somewhere.... They stopped teaching 'useful skills' classes. No more Home Economics. No more shop classes. Arts and humanities were next on the chopping block. Schools became nothing more than 'testing centers'. Kids were taught how to pass the test the fed mandated. (on which, school funding was based....) Everything else fell by the wayside. Except sports programs, of course...... Those were pretty much exempt from ANY budget cuts. A school in a town north of me a ways, built a new school. Then decided they needed a new sports stadium. Put the millage increase (tax to pay for it) to a vote. It was declined. School built the place anyway.... Something just north of 5 million dollars (back in the late 90's) for a stadium that DIDN'T HAVE BATHROOMS...... The sheer stupidity of it all was outrageous. But it's typical of school administration.... Truly scary.

 

And all the while, the government decided that they knew better how to raise and discipline kids, than their parents did. They also decided that it wasn't the schools place to discipline ANYONE, and the inmates took over the asylum. Teachers had no authority in their own classrooms. The students did..... You can guess how that turned out..... When things started going bad, the powers-that-be wondered what was going wrong, so, more counselors/social workers appeared in schools. (and there's that budget thing again.....) Things still didn't get better. Then we got 'safe spaces', and other such nonsense. And it went downhill from there... I actually feel sorry for kids going to school today. They don't really get a quality education.... They get a great indoctrination though.....

 

But, I graduated back in the late 70's. (yeah, I'm an old fart too. :) ) Things were MUCH different then. And having an education MEANT something.

[Perraine]

Holy s#*&#33;! That is truly screwed up! How can any supposedly "civilized" nation do that to their children? There is NOTHING more important to society than good education, even if it's only the basics, like reading, writing, and arithmetic. I didn't realise the education system in America was that bad. No wonder there are so many other problems in your country, people must just simply believe whatever they are spoon fed by the media to believe, because they aren't capable of actually learning anything for themselves, as they don't have the skills and don't know how to.

 

I seriously feel a deep sympathy for anyone trying to raise children in a system like that.

 

There is a YTube channel called "Campus Reform" (I think that's the name) Where they interview College and University students and ask them various political or other questions, and I thought that the sheer level of ignorance was only from "some" of them, but from what you are saying the problems go way deeper, and are far more insidious and dangerous.

[HeyYou]

The liberals are taking over the world, and they are starting (have started?) with the education systems. If you teach the kids the liberal line starting in pre-school, then they become indoctrinated quite well by the time they are ostensibly 'adults'. Of course, they can't think for themselves, feel the world OWES them a good living, and suffer under the delusion that they have some constitutional right to NEVER be offended..... Hence, the PC society we have in the US today. Cancel Culture. The acceptance of rioting/looting as 'protests', and a boatload of other stupidity to go along with it. Which is one Donald Trump won back in '16.... and why I expect him to win again in '20. At least, I sure HOPE he wins... I REALLY don't want Biden/Harris in the whitehouse..... That would pretty much spell doom for a selection of our constitutional rights...... not to mention our economy. Some of the hairbrained (harebrained?) schemes they are coming up with, and then RUNNING on, defy belief. The Green New Deal? (97 trillion over 10 years..... more than double the national budget for the time period.....), reparations for slavery? (12 trillion, no time frame stated..... essentially giving huge sums of money to people that weren't around, never experienced it, and for the majority of them, came to this country AFTER slavery had been abolished. Not to mention some of their 'social reform' ideas.... Defunding the poice? We see how well that worked in Baltimore..... (crime essentially tripled.....) It quite literally scares the crap out of me some of the stuff they think are 'good ideas'......

 

Fortunately, my kids are already grown, and were taught to think for themselves, and never believe anything a politician has to say. :)

 

Denzel Washington said it best in the Movie Demolition Man.... "The world has become a Brady bunch, pussy-whipped version of itself." And he is quite right.

[gnarly1]

<snippity>

Not the West, but perhaps the US: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/covid-19-end-of-american-era-wade-davis-1038206/

 

Only half of Americans report having meaningful, face-to-face social interactions on a daily basis. The nation consumes two-thirds of the world’s production of antidepressant drugs. The collapse of the working-class family has been responsible in part for an opioid crisis that has displaced car accidents as the leading cause of death for Americans under 50.

 

Also, given his previous form (well documented on the interwebs) and the number of times his content has been compellingly and convincingly debunked/demolished (much of it was plagiarised), it's pretty difficult to take Felix Rex (AKA Black Pigeon Speaks) seriously.

Edited August 22, 2020 by gnarly1