The Fall of the West.

[xrayy]

i'm with you but to tell this story an audience seriously is just an act i would call a total fail. it is too far away from a healthy reality and society for me but it is real in the u.s. and supported by the nra. i understand more and more what's going on in parts of the usa and why trump, maga and nra is still somehow supported. it is almost the same in germany - but not that extreme with weapons just with extreme right positions. one reason: too many people do not know their own history and the true reason for ww2 and the story about the rise and fall of hitler. i'm speechless how naive so many u.s americans play down nra, trumps permament obvious manipulation of facts so long that even a lie sounds true. i've never recognized this as a permanent strategy. just since 2016, during trumps presidency. and it still lasts even if the dumbest in the meantime know, that also promient right media reporter lied in the camera while already knowing it better. this was exactly the way how hitler gained power 1933 in gemany. under normal circumstances he would´ve never had a chance. but he was clever, clever and a manipulator as putin and trump. but they are/were all three not perfect and much too vain...

[HeyYou]

i'm with you but to tell this story an audience seriously is just an act i would call a total fail. it is too far away from a healthy reality and society for me but it is real in the u.s. and supported by the nra. i understand more and more what's going on in parts of the usa and why trump, maga and nra is still somehow supported. it is almost the same in germany - but not that extreme with weapons just with extreme right positions. one reason: too many people do not know their own history and the true reason for ww2 and the story about the rise and fall of hitler. i'm speechless how naive so many u.s americans play down nra, trumps permament obvious manipulation of facts so long that even a lie sounds true. i've never recognized this as a permanent strategy. just since 2016, during trumps presidency. and it still lasts even if the dumbest in the meantime know, that also promient right media reporter lied in the camera while already knowing it better.

The NRA advocates for gun safety. No where will you find them advocating guns for toddlers. That's just idiotic. The NRA is about gun safety, and gun rights. Some of their positions may seem extreme, but few of them actually are. Gotta remember, that whole second amendment thing, and the key part the NRA supports "Shall not be infringed"......

 

Yeah, the whole 'trump follower' thing has me scratching my head as well. Trump has more than adequately demonstrated that he lives in a different reality than the rest of us, and his version bears little resemblance to ours. WHY folks still support him is well beyond my comprehension. I think the republican party is cutting their own throats by supporting him.... But then, I also subscribe to the old adage: "Never underestimate the stupidity of your fellow man."... Here we have a shining example of the truth of that statement.

[xrayy]

"the nra advocates for gun safety" is a narrative you can spread or that you can identify as a narrative. seems you prefer the first like most u.s. weapon and old amendment supporters. i doubt you will ever open your eyes in that regard just not to see the truth on this planet.

 

i would be glad if some more people like you scatch their head. but i can not really see that. :wink:

 

i remember rudy giuliani, a respected mayor in 2000/2001 and known for his "broken windows theory" in germany. what happened to him during trump presidency apart from personal scandals and an interview with "borats" daughter ?

what a steep fall while promoting conspiracy since then!

 

it seems to me more and more that the white majority in the u.s. was not ready for the 8 year obama presidency. for sure he made an incredible good and convincing job from the european perspective. but it was also obvious u.s. economy was stable but he left with an inner division problem, masterfully and effectively exploited by trump in the public in the following years as we all know now.

[HeyYou]

Scandals used to be the bane of politicians, yet, here we have Donnie involved in several, and folks STILL support him..... That just boggles the mind. I was hoping that after he lost in 2020, he would just kinda fade from the scene. Guess that was too much to hope for... His ego is to fragile to actually admit defeat, and if he runs again, he will lose again. Doesn't matter who he is running against...... Fair few republicans will vote for an independent, before they will vote for donnie.... and a third party candidate has NEVER won a presidential election here. Donnie will essentially be handing the election to whatever dem candidate happens to be running. Can't say that I am thrilled about another four years of Biden......

 

NRA IS about gun safety. However, the media won't cover that. The antics of Wayne, and the whole 'guns are evil' crowd will see to that. Heaven forbid anyone say anything nice about guns in general, or gun groups...... That would pretty much end any journalism career. Cancel culture at it's best.

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

i'm with you but to tell this story an audience seriously is just an act i would call a total fail. it is too far away from a healthy reality and society for me but it is real in the u.s. and supported by the nra. i understand more and more what's going on in parts of the usa and why trump, maga and nra is still somehow supported. it is almost the same in germany - but not that extreme with weapons just with extreme right positions. one reason: too many people do not know their own history and the true reason for ww2 and the story about the rise and fall of hitler. i'm speechless how naive so many u.s americans play down nra, trumps permament obvious manipulation of facts so long that even a lie sounds true. i've never recognized this as a permanent strategy. just since 2016, during trumps presidency. and it still lasts even if the dumbest in the meantime know, that also promient right media reporter lied in the camera while already knowing it better.

The NRA advocates for gun safety. No where will you find them advocating guns for toddlers. That's just idiotic. The NRA is about gun safety, and gun rights. Some of their positions may seem extreme, but few of them actually are. Gotta remember, that whole second amendment thing, and the key part the NRA supports "Shall not be infringed"......

 

Yeah, the whole 'trump follower' thing has me scratching my head as well. Trump has more than adequately demonstrated that he lives in a different reality than the rest of us, and his version bears little resemblance to ours. WHY folks still support him is well beyond my comprehension. I think the republican party is cutting their own throats by supporting him.... But then, I also subscribe to the old adage: "Never underestimate the stupidity of your fellow man."... Here we have a shining example of the truth of that statement.

 

 

Trump is the Wrecking ball. People support him because the political class hate him. The enemy of our enemy is our friend type of deal..

[ScytheBearer]

 

 

< clip >

 

it seems to me more and more that the white majority in the u.s. was not ready for the 8 year obama presidency...

 

Just one small 'illumination". The "white majority in the U.S." is thin at best, and rapidly disappearing.

 

If one looks at the census results and the demographics in America, one can plainly see that the "not quite white enough" population in America is on par with that of "True, White Americans"; but that is changing. It is predicted that by 2045; just 22 years hence, those identifying as "white" will be in the minority (The Brookings Institutipn, William H. Frey, Wednesday, March 14, 2018). That single statistic is one major contributor to the paranoia which drives the WASP population to want more; and more severely militaristic; weapons in the hands of civilians. A minority of the WASPs want to protect their "power" as the ruling "class" by force if necessary.

 

Think of it as just so much more "American Apartheid". White minority rule by force of arms. The appeal of one Donald Trump is based in this desire. Donald was able to whip his party into a frenzy and to attract adherents by pressing this single issue to the fore of his campaign. His "Wall" was all about preserving white America, and less about "stopping immigration".

 

And it doesn't stop there. The current assault on The Civil Rights Act, The Voting Rights Act, even the "equal protection" clause of the Fourteenth Amendment are all based in the desire to stop the power transfer from "White America" to "Not White America". Ron DeSantos' attack on inclusion, tolerance, equality, and what he calls "the woke agenda" is little more than a thinly disguised attempt to undermine the rise of "not white people" getting into positions of power. America's current abrogation of it's responsibilities under the 1951 Convention on Refugees is yet another attempt to limit the arrival rates of "not quite white enough" refugees at America's borders.

 

All of this is tied to a minority of Americans and their efforts to normalize, justify, legitimize and sanctify white supremacy in America. All the other tripe and hype spouted by the Republican Party, their leaders, and their sycophants is just so much smoke and mirrors, designed to obscure or distort reality.

 

Soap box returned to it's original upright and locked position.

Edited June 17, 2023 by ScytheBearer

[xrayy]

just kidding: so the black people will vote trump in 2024 ? is that the reason for more complicated elections rules as some people wish ?

 

but lets get back to the topic. why just talk about the west ?

 

before the west falls a big number of nuclear events will probably mark the end for the planet and the whole human race!

 

the egoistic behavior of all important current leaders and the "no plan strategy" how to save the planet is a one way ticket to self-extinction.

why is kim still able to play with fire ?

why can an obviously illegal annexation un resolution still be blocked by a veto of one nation?

just two aspects and dangers we are not able solve. instead belarus is also nuclear equipped.

regardless how we kill us, all current leaders will fight for their power and ego to the end - not for the survival of the human race and the planet - that's for sure...

 

all the current powerful leaders are too weak and egoistic, some even too narcissistic to save the world - that seems too be more and more a fact.

putin, xi, the europeans or any us-president elected in 2024 or in the near future will not have the format or the strength so save the world together with all others involved. is the iq or ego the reason?

two of them, putin and xi are on their straight way to accelerate this process of destruction and extinction. they will rule their countries for how many years ?
they all concentrate to strengthen just their personal power and income as much as possible while leaving the whole world in the dust. and i can not see even a small light at the end of this tunnel! i expect lesser than nothing - for all - not exclusively for the west.

[RomanR]

Well, I think this is simple and natural thing, same as normal poeple are getting old, so nations do. Western states are now enjoying era of peace, stability and wealth. However, then you're born in such era, you take many things simply for granted, forgetting that was earned by hard work which began even centuries before.

 

And as I too considernig western beliefs most advanced (human rights, respecting sexual minorities etc.), I also known that western power nations often spreaded their beliefs in a worst ways imaginable, alienating whose who normaly embrace them. As nation become power nation, it thinks that it's so better that it gives it right to behave and take everything it wants (independend of goverment type or religion in such nation).

 

However, I still that "Fall of the West" is too strong saying. But yes, with education and science more available to people, is no wonder that nations like India or China thanks to their dilligence are becoming power nations too. So now western states aren't only ones, which can alter order of this world. Question is what will western states do about it? Will they be able to cope or fall to "third-world" class?

[Aurielius]

I believe the west is in an analogous position to the 3rd century Roman Empire. The cost of maintaining our military to be global capable is not so slowly bankrupting us. Soon we will have to be parsimonious with our military assets because our ability to replace our war fighting machines is not equal to current battlefield attrition. Both Republic and Empire were held together by a shared sense of belonging to something worthy of preservation. Once they lost that the end was inevitable. I always wondered what a Roman watching the barbarians crest their last line of defense was thinking….at this rate I might find out.

[RomanR]

1 hour ago, Aurielius said:

I believe the west is in an analogous position to the 3rd century Roman Empire. The cost of maintaining our military to be global capable is not so slowly bankrupting us. Soon we will have to be parsimonious with our military assets because our ability to replace our war fighting machines is not equal to current battlefield attrition. Both Republic and Empire were held together by a shared sense of belonging to something worthy of preservation. Once they lost that the end was inevitable. I always wondered what a Roman watching the barbarians crest their last line of defense was thinking….at this rate I might find out.

It's not a military only. Many EU nations are making significant debts just to run a state. And sooner or later it will backlash at them. Including inefficient ruling and byrocratic overload resulting in very weak results, EU is slowly but surely loosing its position. Yes, the analogue for Roman Empire is quite fitting. Still, Italy exists to this very day, just it's a small state as in the beginning.