Modding Bethesda Games on Game Pass - What we know so far

[showler]

In response to post #95503598. #95509868 is also a reply to the same post.

HadToRegister wrote: https://game-debate.com/news/30399/skyrim-special-edition-on-game-pass-can-be-modded-but-is-severely-limited

However, some games on the Xbox Game Pass app allow for an optional toggle button that can allow mod installs by opening up the root game folder including the game’s executable. Skyrim Special Edition on Xbox Game Pass allows this but comes with one important caveat: the Skyrim Script Extender (SKSE) is incompatible with this version.
SKSE is required for some of the most popular mods for Skyrim Special Edition, but unfortunately the Game Pass executable version is 1.5.111 - which is a new version of the game (probably to allow Xbox Achievements and Microsoft log in etc.) - whilst the Steam version is 1.5.97.
Doubly unfortunate for players is that it seems like SKSE won’t be updated to the Game Pass version, as the official website says that “SKSE cannot support any potential Windows Store release of Skyrim. Windows Store applications are locked down similarly to consoles and do not allow the APIs necessary for script extenders to work.”
That means that yes, Skyrim Special Edition on Xbox Game Pass does allow for mod support, but only as long as they do not require SKSE to work. There are of course Bethesda.Net mods which have been created without the need for SKSE anyway, but could prove a problem in terms of load order if you have any conflicting mods.

Kalell wrote: Good info.

Reminds me so much of the "Direct2Drive" Oblivion days.  No OBSE possible for games bought on that service either.  Now, "Direct2Drive" is a ghost of the past.  Consumers made the choice.

[d3m0n0id]

In response to post #91955663. #91980893, #92004163, #92005323, #92007078, #92015173, #92035723, #92041663, #92072548, #92086163, #92091233, #92111838, #92111993, #92144808, #92516638, #92589693, #92660833, #92804518, #92887833, #93032463, #93337893, #93339273, #93339358, #95377088 are all replies on the same post.

ff7legend wrote: No pun/disrespect intended towards console users but with Game Pass, one does not actually own the game in question.  If one fails to renew their yearly subscription to Game Pass, one will lose access to all those so-called "free games" they downloaded to their console's HDD/SSD.  The same applies to PS Plus users.  One is far better off buying the actual game vs obtaining it via Game Pass/PS Plus. 

I actually prefer physical media vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  With a physical copy, I actually OWN the game/music/movie in question & can watch/play/listen to it as many times as I wish without having to pay those nagging subscription fees.  Not only that but the overall sound/video quality of physical media is vastly superior vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  I still have my CDs/Blu-rays for this very reason & will not pay a subscription fee just to watch/play a game/movie or listen to my favorite music.  Total RIPOFF.

Another thing to be concerned with are all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending upon the ISP.  Streaming games/movies/videogames eats up A TON OF DATA.  This is especially true for 4K/8K video streaming.  Many ISPs here Stateside have monthly data caps & charge a King's ransom for going over one's monthly data allotment.  Others will simply throttle one's internet speeds to the point where streaming is impossible depending on the device used.  Either way, physical media is vastly superior & will save one a TON OF $$$$$$ in the long run...

GamingZacharyC wrote: Someone's a misinformed ranter on this forum. First, find an ISP that doesn't have a ridiculous data cap. 1.2 terabytes a month, my data cap, is plenty for me.

Second, renting your game or movie from a service like Netflix, Disney Plus, and Game Pass are really great options for people who only want to watch a movie once or twice. Chances are I'm never going to watch Frozen 2 again. Renting an entire library of games is a great way to go for people who play a game for a short while (think Human Fall Flat) before needing a new one. Game Pass is a great option for games that aren't replayable. Beyond that, streaming quality is getting better and better. If quality is your concern, well, I'm sorry to say that you're not getting a disk of Flora & Ulysses any time soon. There are times when you have to decide: Wallet or impractical peace of mind.

Something that I haven't even mentioned today is that Game Pass DOES NOT MAKE PROFIT as of yet. Microsoft is taking a gamble with it and hoping that people stick around long enough.

Owning a physical disk because of ISP charges is a very uninformed answer that just screams to me "too stubborn to change." Think about it this way: Owning an Xbox disk is really just a container for a license key and some metadata. You still have to download the game over the internet. Also, if game streaming services like GeForce Now didn't exist, there'd be plenty of games I couldn't play with my potato. Instead of paying upfront for a bunch of expensive hardware, I choose to rent it. My household doesn't incur data cap charges, like, ever.

Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering in an attempt to change the mind of someone who argues so naively anyway. I guess this is here for someone else to read and agree with.

Lominsa wrote: .. there are still ISPs that have data caps? I thought that was a thing of the past. At least in my country.

Kalell wrote: Sadly nearly every ISP here in the US has one, and even the few that don't will start throttling your connection if they feel you're using too much.

showler wrote: Game Pass isn't a streaming service to my knowledge.  You download the full game, but with a somewhat restrictive DRM (so you can't just copy it to another folder and keep it).  Unless you are constantly downloading and erasing the games, you won't use much more data than just buying and downloading the game.

SciRika wrote: My ISP added a data cap and tried to advertise it as a bonus "you now have 1TB of data!" when it was "you're now limited to only 1TB of data".

Chaosgod3456 wrote: thats not true ps plus games are free and not like game pass if you dont renew you still own the game

Kel1978 wrote: It's quite rude calling people names. If ff7legend is a ranter then so are you, GamingZacharyC, for ranting about his rant. His situation is different than yours. Maybe he doesn't have a great ISP. There are still places in the US without great connections so perhaps his options are limited. Don't be so judgy.

I prefer physical as well. If I really like a game on Gamepass, I'll buy the physical. I mostly go for collector's edition anyways.

I tried the console versions but modding was way too limiting. A mear 5gb? Ridiculous. I'll stick to PC for Bethesda games.

ThomGonring wrote: Or maybe to read and disagree . . .

#1 try not calling names: "ranter", it does not foster conversation, only reactions.

More specific to your post:

"Game Pass does not make a profit" "Microsoft is taking a gamble"

If you think game pass is going to remain a low monthly fee, think again.  The low initial price is a lure, and the "gamble" is a long term INVESTMENT. designed to generate profits, imagine that!  The price WILL GO UP.

As far as Game Pass's value, it's really as simple as this:

If you want to play a lot of games, and/or try them out without commitment:  Game Pass is Great! - Period

If you prefer a small amount of your favorite games, and/or like to mod:  Game Pass SUCKS! - Period

ALL OF YOU:  recognize that different people have different goals (Which is GOOD!), and stop trying to convert the opposite camp!

MOD CRITICIZERS:  Don't knock mods until you get them working right, because when you do: it transforms your game in ways you cannot imagine.  Skyrim (2011!) is still more playable than many modern games BECAUSE OF MODS.  Yes, they require some patience, but that patience is greatly rewarded.

LAST AND NOT LEAST:  ANY internet outage means no gaming with Game Pass.  If you're going to try and tell me your internet NEVER goes down, I will call you "nobody", because nobody's perfect (including the internet).

Thank you.

DaveClaw wrote: Game Pass is DRM-locked downloaded games.  It is not streaming.

Game Pass is a great way to play 100+ games.  Yes, if you enjoy one of those 100 enough to want a permanent copy then it makes sense to buy the GOTY edition a couple of years later for $20.  Meanwhile you've saved paying $60 each on many games. 

I played Outer Worlds day of release with Game Pass.  It was fun but I'm not feeling any urge to replay it unlike my 1,000+ hours in Fallout 4 and eleventy playthroughs of FO 1-2-tactics-3-NV.  The $60 I didn't pay paid for months of Game Pass by itself.

showler wrote: Not sure why anyone would address "MOD CRITICIZERS" on the Nexusmods message boards.  Not likely to find too many of those around here.

naitzmic wrote: You're aware that discs just have a digital image on them too, right?
There's literally no difference between a downloaded file and the one on a disc. It's all digital.
Whatever difference you think you're seeing/hearing is either placebo or you're comparing two differently encoded files.

As for the datacap argument; eh, okay. Sucks for you, I guess?
I have fiberoptic gigabit ethernet with no restrictions, and IF it should ever go down at an inoppurtune time, I'll hook up my phone and use the 5G connection on that instead. Two different networks, so the likelyhood of both being down at the same time is quite low.

Sounds like "stone-age woes" to me thb.

juggernex9 wrote: Right, Data-Caps, data caps, what is that? I'd understand if you are referring to telephony. But internet? Not in my country either!

werksmith wrote: I think of Game Pass like this: paying a small amount to try out a bunch of different games. If I like the game and it has some replay-ability and I want to play it long term I will buy the game. There is nothing stopping anyone from purchasing the game outright nor is game pass a replacement for that. I really think that game pass marketing is failing at that message and people have that misconception. One other way to look at it is if you do not have much money but want to game you can get in. It really seems like a neat deal especially for those who are less savvy than us on Nexus. 

ff7legend wrote: @juggernex9: A data cap is a cap on the amount of data uploaded/downloaded/streamed within a particular time frame.  Here in the U.S, many ISPs have instituted monthly data caps on home internet service.  This means that if one goes over one's monthly data allotment within a 30 day period, one will incur expensive data overage charges added to their monthly bill.  Some ISPs will also throttle the speed of one's connection in addition to the added data overage charges.  This is especially true for smartphone users.  In many countries across Europe/Asia, it is ILLEGAL for ISPs to cap one's data usage/throttle one's connection speeds.  That is not the case here in the U.S where corporations rule the day via lobbying/political campaign contributions.  ISPs here Stateside also enjoy monopolies across large geographical areas no thanks to the contracts they have in various large cities that expressly PROHIBIT any competing company to have access to the necessary infrastructure to set up a competing network...

vapor78 wrote: AS someone who works for an ISP, MOST ISP's in america do NOT in fact throttle your bandwidth nor do they implement caps, that is almost entirely a cellular or satellite trait.
our "typical" user goes thru about 850 gigs a month, our "heavy" users can do 1.5 tb if they use thier internet as a cable replacement.

if you are being throttled, you may consider switching ISP's

I work for a WISP and we dont even throttle our CU's at all, "unless" thier account has been flagged as abusive use, I.E. they run lots of torrents or are running a server from thier home. in which case they upgrade to a buisiness account and then its no issue

also to note, no internet company in america is allowed a monopoly, there MUST be an alternative even in a franchising situation.
you sir are horribly informed OR you are just making stuff up. idk which.

jeffcollins2020 wrote: Not in the las 5 years I haven had a cap I live in Texas. Check your facts

Kalell wrote: https://www.allconnect.com/blog/internet-service-providers-with-data-caps
https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/which-internet-service-providers-have-data-caps
https://www.cabletv.com/blog/which-brands-have-data-caps
https://broadbandnow.com/internet-providers-with-data-caps

griffinClark44 wrote: The free game of the month with gold which comes with the game pass allows you to keep the game without the subscription but go off

rohsaurus wrote: Are you  in the middle of the country because on the east coast, I don't have any data caps or any catches like that.

JIYONTEKUZA wrote: Yes, I agree totally. When I found that the new Cyber Power 880 I had just paid $2500 for had no DVD drive, I contacted their user support to find out why it was missing. They told me all-digital was the way to go, and I said "HELL NO!! I had enough trouble keeping my X Box One unplugged every time my router was on, and unplugging my router every time I wanted to play an X Box game, just to prevent getting shoved any Skyrim updates that would break my game ( a Skyrim game that can only be played for a month or two before needing to be restarted is no Skyrim game at all.) Depending upon a server that may or may not still exist next time I go to play, and hoping to dodge an update that makes a NEW GAME mandatory, is no way to live.

JIYONTEKUZA wrote:     Skyrim and many other disc-based games can be played totally off-line on an X Box One after that X Box One has been registered with Microsoft Live, and after any desired mods have been downloaded. These games can be installed off-line, from disc, as well. It seems there is some way to load mods onto USBs or an External Drive so that the hardware can be reset to factory default to purge any malware, and then mods that are no longer available from Bethesda.net can be re-installed from the memory device (but I have yet to discover that method.)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I am so happy to find that Kiesha (original) has returned to Bethnet, and I only need Heybaby_Jasmine and Immersive Footprints to restore my perfect load order from the time before Creation Club existed. I don't like recorder's new Ebony armor, and sadly no longer use her.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Microsoft's insistence that Skyrim be enlisted into its' ill-advised 4K and 1440p over-reaches led to serious overheating crashes on the hardware. The forced adoption of the wretched and accursed Survival Mode was to induce a cheap death every five minutes to give the CPU a chance to cool down when the 4K/1440p excesses overheated it, even if one only set the hardware to 1080p. I had to reset my X Box One to emulate new-out-of-the-box and change my identity to finally purge the vile and foul Survival Mode, and in doing so lost many of my beloved mods to their unavailablity due to their incompatibility with the latest worthless Creation Club update (Armored Mudcrab, anybody?). If I had taken my X Box off-line and kept it there the day before Creation Club was unleashed on an innocent world, I would probably now be finishing a completionist Skyrim playthrough using my adorable and magnificent April 2019 mod list, which I can never recover.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   May on-line only single-player games be damned for dogs!   I'm looking at you, Red Dead Redemption!   Your clunky set-pieces are not worth spending any data time upon!          

JIYONTEKUZA wrote: No they are not identical. CDs use the Wav. file format, which has 10x the data points as digital download's compressed MP3s.

ArngrimEinherjar wrote: ff7legend is totally right. Those streaming "services" and new forms of DRM may end up killing the freedom of the players. Also, some of us like OWNING our stuff.

This is untrue. When your PS Plus sub lapses, you lose access to your games. Unless that's changed recently.

[showler]

In response to post #91955663. #91980893, #92004163, #92005323, #92007078, #92015173, #92035723, #92041663, #92072548, #92086163, #92091233, #92111838, #92111993, #92144808, #92516638, #92589693, #92660833, #92804518, #92887833, #93032463, #93337893, #93339273, #93339358, #95377088, #95774813 are all replies on the same post.

ff7legend wrote: No pun/disrespect intended towards console users but with Game Pass, one does not actually own the game in question.  If one fails to renew their yearly subscription to Game Pass, one will lose access to all those so-called "free games" they downloaded to their console's HDD/SSD.  The same applies to PS Plus users.  One is far better off buying the actual game vs obtaining it via Game Pass/PS Plus. 

I actually prefer physical media vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  With a physical copy, I actually OWN the game/music/movie in question & can watch/play/listen to it as many times as I wish without having to pay those nagging subscription fees.  Not only that but the overall sound/video quality of physical media is vastly superior vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  I still have my CDs/Blu-rays for this very reason & will not pay a subscription fee just to watch/play a game/movie or listen to my favorite music.  Total RIPOFF.

Another thing to be concerned with are all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending upon the ISP.  Streaming games/movies/videogames eats up A TON OF DATA.  This is especially true for 4K/8K video streaming.  Many ISPs here Stateside have monthly data caps & charge a King's ransom for going over one's monthly data allotment.  Others will simply throttle one's internet speeds to the point where streaming is impossible depending on the device used.  Either way, physical media is vastly superior & will save one a TON OF $$$$$$ in the long run...

GamingZacharyC wrote: Someone's a misinformed ranter on this forum. First, find an ISP that doesn't have a ridiculous data cap. 1.2 terabytes a month, my data cap, is plenty for me.

Second, renting your game or movie from a service like Netflix, Disney Plus, and Game Pass are really great options for people who only want to watch a movie once or twice. Chances are I'm never going to watch Frozen 2 again. Renting an entire library of games is a great way to go for people who play a game for a short while (think Human Fall Flat) before needing a new one. Game Pass is a great option for games that aren't replayable. Beyond that, streaming quality is getting better and better. If quality is your concern, well, I'm sorry to say that you're not getting a disk of Flora & Ulysses any time soon. There are times when you have to decide: Wallet or impractical peace of mind.

Something that I haven't even mentioned today is that Game Pass DOES NOT MAKE PROFIT as of yet. Microsoft is taking a gamble with it and hoping that people stick around long enough.

Owning a physical disk because of ISP charges is a very uninformed answer that just screams to me "too stubborn to change." Think about it this way: Owning an Xbox disk is really just a container for a license key and some metadata. You still have to download the game over the internet. Also, if game streaming services like GeForce Now didn't exist, there'd be plenty of games I couldn't play with my potato. Instead of paying upfront for a bunch of expensive hardware, I choose to rent it. My household doesn't incur data cap charges, like, ever.

Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering in an attempt to change the mind of someone who argues so naively anyway. I guess this is here for someone else to read and agree with.

Lominsa wrote: .. there are still ISPs that have data caps? I thought that was a thing of the past. At least in my country.

Kalell wrote: Sadly nearly every ISP here in the US has one, and even the few that don't will start throttling your connection if they feel you're using too much.

showler wrote: Game Pass isn't a streaming service to my knowledge.  You download the full game, but with a somewhat restrictive DRM (so you can't just copy it to another folder and keep it).  Unless you are constantly downloading and erasing the games, you won't use much more data than just buying and downloading the game.

SciRika wrote: My ISP added a data cap and tried to advertise it as a bonus "you now have 1TB of data!" when it was "you're now limited to only 1TB of data".

Chaosgod3456 wrote: thats not true ps plus games are free and not like game pass if you dont renew you still own the game

Kel1978 wrote: It's quite rude calling people names. If ff7legend is a ranter then so are you, GamingZacharyC, for ranting about his rant. His situation is different than yours. Maybe he doesn't have a great ISP. There are still places in the US without great connections so perhaps his options are limited. Don't be so judgy.

I prefer physical as well. If I really like a game on Gamepass, I'll buy the physical. I mostly go for collector's edition anyways.

I tried the console versions but modding was way too limiting. A mear 5gb? Ridiculous. I'll stick to PC for Bethesda games.

ThomGonring wrote: Or maybe to read and disagree . . .

#1 try not calling names: "ranter", it does not foster conversation, only reactions.

More specific to your post:

"Game Pass does not make a profit" "Microsoft is taking a gamble"

If you think game pass is going to remain a low monthly fee, think again.  The low initial price is a lure, and the "gamble" is a long term INVESTMENT. designed to generate profits, imagine that!  The price WILL GO UP.

As far as Game Pass's value, it's really as simple as this:

If you want to play a lot of games, and/or try them out without commitment:  Game Pass is Great! - Period

If you prefer a small amount of your favorite games, and/or like to mod:  Game Pass SUCKS! - Period

ALL OF YOU:  recognize that different people have different goals (Which is GOOD!), and stop trying to convert the opposite camp!

MOD CRITICIZERS:  Don't knock mods until you get them working right, because when you do: it transforms your game in ways you cannot imagine.  Skyrim (2011!) is still more playable than many modern games BECAUSE OF MODS.  Yes, they require some patience, but that patience is greatly rewarded.

LAST AND NOT LEAST:  ANY internet outage means no gaming with Game Pass.  If you're going to try and tell me your internet NEVER goes down, I will call you "nobody", because nobody's perfect (including the internet).

Thank you.

DaveClaw wrote: Game Pass is DRM-locked downloaded games.  It is not streaming.

Game Pass is a great way to play 100+ games.  Yes, if you enjoy one of those 100 enough to want a permanent copy then it makes sense to buy the GOTY edition a couple of years later for $20.  Meanwhile you've saved paying $60 each on many games. 

I played Outer Worlds day of release with Game Pass.  It was fun but I'm not feeling any urge to replay it unlike my 1,000+ hours in Fallout 4 and eleventy playthroughs of FO 1-2-tactics-3-NV.  The $60 I didn't pay paid for months of Game Pass by itself.

showler wrote: Not sure why anyone would address "MOD CRITICIZERS" on the Nexusmods message boards.  Not likely to find too many of those around here.

naitzmic wrote: You're aware that discs just have a digital image on them too, right?
There's literally no difference between a downloaded file and the one on a disc. It's all digital.
Whatever difference you think you're seeing/hearing is either placebo or you're comparing two differently encoded files.

As for the datacap argument; eh, okay. Sucks for you, I guess?
I have fiberoptic gigabit ethernet with no restrictions, and IF it should ever go down at an inoppurtune time, I'll hook up my phone and use the 5G connection on that instead. Two different networks, so the likelyhood of both being down at the same time is quite low.

Sounds like "stone-age woes" to me thb.

juggernex9 wrote: Right, Data-Caps, data caps, what is that? I'd understand if you are referring to telephony. But internet? Not in my country either!

werksmith wrote: I think of Game Pass like this: paying a small amount to try out a bunch of different games. If I like the game and it has some replay-ability and I want to play it long term I will buy the game. There is nothing stopping anyone from purchasing the game outright nor is game pass a replacement for that. I really think that game pass marketing is failing at that message and people have that misconception. One other way to look at it is if you do not have much money but want to game you can get in. It really seems like a neat deal especially for those who are less savvy than us on Nexus. 

ff7legend wrote: @juggernex9: A data cap is a cap on the amount of data uploaded/downloaded/streamed within a particular time frame.  Here in the U.S, many ISPs have instituted monthly data caps on home internet service.  This means that if one goes over one's monthly data allotment within a 30 day period, one will incur expensive data overage charges added to their monthly bill.  Some ISPs will also throttle the speed of one's connection in addition to the added data overage charges.  This is especially true for smartphone users.  In many countries across Europe/Asia, it is ILLEGAL for ISPs to cap one's data usage/throttle one's connection speeds.  That is not the case here in the U.S where corporations rule the day via lobbying/political campaign contributions.  ISPs here Stateside also enjoy monopolies across large geographical areas no thanks to the contracts they have in various large cities that expressly PROHIBIT any competing company to have access to the necessary infrastructure to set up a competing network...

vapor78 wrote: AS someone who works for an ISP, MOST ISP's in america do NOT in fact throttle your bandwidth nor do they implement caps, that is almost entirely a cellular or satellite trait.
our "typical" user goes thru about 850 gigs a month, our "heavy" users can do 1.5 tb if they use thier internet as a cable replacement.

if you are being throttled, you may consider switching ISP's

I work for a WISP and we dont even throttle our CU's at all, "unless" thier account has been flagged as abusive use, I.E. they run lots of torrents or are running a server from thier home. in which case they upgrade to a buisiness account and then its no issue

also to note, no internet company in america is allowed a monopoly, there MUST be an alternative even in a franchising situation.
you sir are horribly informed OR you are just making stuff up. idk which.

jeffcollins2020 wrote: Not in the las 5 years I haven had a cap I live in Texas. Check your facts

Kalell wrote: https://www.allconnect.com/blog/internet-service-providers-with-data-caps
https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/which-internet-service-providers-have-data-caps
https://www.cabletv.com/blog/which-brands-have-data-caps
https://broadbandnow.com/internet-providers-with-data-caps

griffinClark44 wrote: The free game of the month with gold which comes with the game pass allows you to keep the game without the subscription but go off

rohsaurus wrote: Are you  in the middle of the country because on the east coast, I don't have any data caps or any catches like that.

JIYONTEKUZA wrote: Yes, I agree totally. When I found that the new Cyber Power 880 I had just paid $2500 for had no DVD drive, I contacted their user support to find out why it was missing. They told me all-digital was the way to go, and I said "HELL NO!! I had enough trouble keeping my X Box One unplugged every time my router was on, and unplugging my router every time I wanted to play an X Box game, just to prevent getting shoved any Skyrim updates that would break my game ( a Skyrim game that can only be played for a month or two before needing to be restarted is no Skyrim game at all.) Depending upon a server that may or may not still exist next time I go to play, and hoping to dodge an update that makes a NEW GAME mandatory, is no way to live.

JIYONTEKUZA wrote:     Skyrim and many other disc-based games can be played totally off-line on an X Box One after that X Box One has been registered with Microsoft Live, and after any desired mods have been downloaded. These games can be installed off-line, from disc, as well. It seems there is some way to load mods onto USBs or an External Drive so that the hardware can be reset to factory default to purge any malware, and then mods that are no longer available from Bethesda.net can be re-installed from the memory device (but I have yet to discover that method.)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I am so happy to find that Kiesha (original) has returned to Bethnet, and I only need Heybaby_Jasmine and Immersive Footprints to restore my perfect load order from the time before Creation Club existed. I don't like recorder's new Ebony armor, and sadly no longer use her.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Microsoft's insistence that Skyrim be enlisted into its' ill-advised 4K and 1440p over-reaches led to serious overheating crashes on the hardware. The forced adoption of the wretched and accursed Survival Mode was to induce a cheap death every five minutes to give the CPU a chance to cool down when the 4K/1440p excesses overheated it, even if one only set the hardware to 1080p. I had to reset my X Box One to emulate new-out-of-the-box and change my identity to finally purge the vile and foul Survival Mode, and in doing so lost many of my beloved mods to their unavailablity due to their incompatibility with the latest worthless Creation Club update (Armored Mudcrab, anybody?). If I had taken my X Box off-line and kept it there the day before Creation Club was unleashed on an innocent world, I would probably now be finishing a completionist Skyrim playthrough using my adorable and magnificent April 2019 mod list, which I can never recover.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   May on-line only single-player games be damned for dogs!   I'm looking at you, Red Dead Redemption!   Your clunky set-pieces are not worth spending any data time upon!          

JIYONTEKUZA wrote: No they are not identical. CDs use the Wav. file format, which has 10x the data points as digital download's compressed MP3s.

ArngrimEinherjar wrote: ff7legend is totally right. Those streaming "services" and new forms of DRM may end up killing the freedom of the players. Also, some of us like OWNING our stuff.

d3m0n0id wrote: This is untrue. When your PS Plus sub lapses, you lose access to your games. Unless that's changed recently.

Games are only accessible while you are subscribed with the odd exception of xbox 360.

?Xbox Series X|S and Xbox One: You’ll no longer be able to access your Games with Gold titles if you cancel your subscription. However, if you decide to renew your subscription at any time, you’ll be able to access and play your previously redeemed Games with Gold titles again.
Xbox 360: Any Games with Gold titles that you redeem as an Xbox Live Gold or Xbox Game Pass Ultimate member are yours to keep, regardless of whether you continue your subscription.

?Expand your game collection with two PS4 games included every month – yours to play for as long as you’re a member.

[korekrash]

In response to post #91955663. #91980893, #92004163, #92005323, #92007078, #92015173, #92035723, #92041663, #92072548, #92086163, #92091233, #92111838, #92111993, #92144808, #92516638, #92589693, #92660833, #92804518, #92887833, #93032463, #93337893, #93339273, #93339358, #95377088, #95774813, #95777278 are all replies on the same post.

ff7legend wrote: No pun/disrespect intended towards console users but with Game Pass, one does not actually own the game in question.  If one fails to renew their yearly subscription to Game Pass, one will lose access to all those so-called "free games" they downloaded to their console's HDD/SSD.  The same applies to PS Plus users.  One is far better off buying the actual game vs obtaining it via Game Pass/PS Plus. 

I actually prefer physical media vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  With a physical copy, I actually OWN the game/music/movie in question & can watch/play/listen to it as many times as I wish without having to pay those nagging subscription fees.  Not only that but the overall sound/video quality of physical media is vastly superior vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  I still have my CDs/Blu-rays for this very reason & will not pay a subscription fee just to watch/play a game/movie or listen to my favorite music.  Total RIPOFF.

Another thing to be concerned with are all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending upon the ISP.  Streaming games/movies/videogames eats up A TON OF DATA.  This is especially true for 4K/8K video streaming.  Many ISPs here Stateside have monthly data caps & charge a King's ransom for going over one's monthly data allotment.  Others will simply throttle one's internet speeds to the point where streaming is impossible depending on the device used.  Either way, physical media is vastly superior & will save one a TON OF $$$$$$ in the long run...

GamingZacharyC wrote: Someone's a misinformed ranter on this forum. First, find an ISP that doesn't have a ridiculous data cap. 1.2 terabytes a month, my data cap, is plenty for me.

Second, renting your game or movie from a service like Netflix, Disney Plus, and Game Pass are really great options for people who only want to watch a movie once or twice. Chances are I'm never going to watch Frozen 2 again. Renting an entire library of games is a great way to go for people who play a game for a short while (think Human Fall Flat) before needing a new one. Game Pass is a great option for games that aren't replayable. Beyond that, streaming quality is getting better and better. If quality is your concern, well, I'm sorry to say that you're not getting a disk of Flora & Ulysses any time soon. There are times when you have to decide: Wallet or impractical peace of mind.

Something that I haven't even mentioned today is that Game Pass DOES NOT MAKE PROFIT as of yet. Microsoft is taking a gamble with it and hoping that people stick around long enough.

Owning a physical disk because of ISP charges is a very uninformed answer that just screams to me "too stubborn to change." Think about it this way: Owning an Xbox disk is really just a container for a license key and some metadata. You still have to download the game over the internet. Also, if game streaming services like GeForce Now didn't exist, there'd be plenty of games I couldn't play with my potato. Instead of paying upfront for a bunch of expensive hardware, I choose to rent it. My household doesn't incur data cap charges, like, ever.

Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering in an attempt to change the mind of someone who argues so naively anyway. I guess this is here for someone else to read and agree with.

Lominsa wrote: .. there are still ISPs that have data caps? I thought that was a thing of the past. At least in my country.

Kalell wrote: Sadly nearly every ISP here in the US has one, and even the few that don't will start throttling your connection if they feel you're using too much.

showler wrote: Game Pass isn't a streaming service to my knowledge.  You download the full game, but with a somewhat restrictive DRM (so you can't just copy it to another folder and keep it).  Unless you are constantly downloading and erasing the games, you won't use much more data than just buying and downloading the game.

SciRika wrote: My ISP added a data cap and tried to advertise it as a bonus "you now have 1TB of data!" when it was "you're now limited to only 1TB of data".

Chaosgod3456 wrote: thats not true ps plus games are free and not like game pass if you dont renew you still own the game

Kel1978 wrote: It's quite rude calling people names. If ff7legend is a ranter then so are you, GamingZacharyC, for ranting about his rant. His situation is different than yours. Maybe he doesn't have a great ISP. There are still places in the US without great connections so perhaps his options are limited. Don't be so judgy.

I prefer physical as well. If I really like a game on Gamepass, I'll buy the physical. I mostly go for collector's edition anyways.

I tried the console versions but modding was way too limiting. A mear 5gb? Ridiculous. I'll stick to PC for Bethesda games.

ThomGonring wrote: Or maybe to read and disagree . . .

#1 try not calling names: "ranter", it does not foster conversation, only reactions.

More specific to your post:

"Game Pass does not make a profit" "Microsoft is taking a gamble"

If you think game pass is going to remain a low monthly fee, think again.  The low initial price is a lure, and the "gamble" is a long term INVESTMENT. designed to generate profits, imagine that!  The price WILL GO UP.

As far as Game Pass's value, it's really as simple as this:

If you want to play a lot of games, and/or try them out without commitment:  Game Pass is Great! - Period

If you prefer a small amount of your favorite games, and/or like to mod:  Game Pass SUCKS! - Period

ALL OF YOU:  recognize that different people have different goals (Which is GOOD!), and stop trying to convert the opposite camp!

MOD CRITICIZERS:  Don't knock mods until you get them working right, because when you do: it transforms your game in ways you cannot imagine.  Skyrim (2011!) is still more playable than many modern games BECAUSE OF MODS.  Yes, they require some patience, but that patience is greatly rewarded.

LAST AND NOT LEAST:  ANY internet outage means no gaming with Game Pass.  If you're going to try and tell me your internet NEVER goes down, I will call you "nobody", because nobody's perfect (including the internet).

Thank you.

DaveClaw wrote: Game Pass is DRM-locked downloaded games.  It is not streaming.

Game Pass is a great way to play 100+ games.  Yes, if you enjoy one of those 100 enough to want a permanent copy then it makes sense to buy the GOTY edition a couple of years later for $20.  Meanwhile you've saved paying $60 each on many games. 

I played Outer Worlds day of release with Game Pass.  It was fun but I'm not feeling any urge to replay it unlike my 1,000+ hours in Fallout 4 and eleventy playthroughs of FO 1-2-tactics-3-NV.  The $60 I didn't pay paid for months of Game Pass by itself.

showler wrote: Not sure why anyone would address "MOD CRITICIZERS" on the Nexusmods message boards.  Not likely to find too many of those around here.

naitzmic wrote: You're aware that discs just have a digital image on them too, right?
There's literally no difference between a downloaded file and the one on a disc. It's all digital.
Whatever difference you think you're seeing/hearing is either placebo or you're comparing two differently encoded files.

As for the datacap argument; eh, okay. Sucks for you, I guess?
I have fiberoptic gigabit ethernet with no restrictions, and IF it should ever go down at an inoppurtune time, I'll hook up my phone and use the 5G connection on that instead. Two different networks, so the likelyhood of both being down at the same time is quite low.

Sounds like "stone-age woes" to me thb.

juggernex9 wrote: Right, Data-Caps, data caps, what is that? I'd understand if you are referring to telephony. But internet? Not in my country either!

werksmith wrote: I think of Game Pass like this: paying a small amount to try out a bunch of different games. If I like the game and it has some replay-ability and I want to play it long term I will buy the game. There is nothing stopping anyone from purchasing the game outright nor is game pass a replacement for that. I really think that game pass marketing is failing at that message and people have that misconception. One other way to look at it is if you do not have much money but want to game you can get in. It really seems like a neat deal especially for those who are less savvy than us on Nexus. 

ff7legend wrote: @juggernex9: A data cap is a cap on the amount of data uploaded/downloaded/streamed within a particular time frame.  Here in the U.S, many ISPs have instituted monthly data caps on home internet service.  This means that if one goes over one's monthly data allotment within a 30 day period, one will incur expensive data overage charges added to their monthly bill.  Some ISPs will also throttle the speed of one's connection in addition to the added data overage charges.  This is especially true for smartphone users.  In many countries across Europe/Asia, it is ILLEGAL for ISPs to cap one's data usage/throttle one's connection speeds.  That is not the case here in the U.S where corporations rule the day via lobbying/political campaign contributions.  ISPs here Stateside also enjoy monopolies across large geographical areas no thanks to the contracts they have in various large cities that expressly PROHIBIT any competing company to have access to the necessary infrastructure to set up a competing network...

vapor78 wrote: AS someone who works for an ISP, MOST ISP's in america do NOT in fact throttle your bandwidth nor do they implement caps, that is almost entirely a cellular or satellite trait.
our "typical" user goes thru about 850 gigs a month, our "heavy" users can do 1.5 tb if they use thier internet as a cable replacement.

if you are being throttled, you may consider switching ISP's

I work for a WISP and we dont even throttle our CU's at all, "unless" thier account has been flagged as abusive use, I.E. they run lots of torrents or are running a server from thier home. in which case they upgrade to a buisiness account and then its no issue

also to note, no internet company in america is allowed a monopoly, there MUST be an alternative even in a franchising situation.
you sir are horribly informed OR you are just making stuff up. idk which.

jeffcollins2020 wrote: Not in the las 5 years I haven had a cap I live in Texas. Check your facts

Kalell wrote: https://www.allconnect.com/blog/internet-service-providers-with-data-caps
https://www.highspeedinternet.com/resources/which-internet-service-providers-have-data-caps
https://www.cabletv.com/blog/which-brands-have-data-caps
https://broadbandnow.com/internet-providers-with-data-caps

griffinClark44 wrote: The free game of the month with gold which comes with the game pass allows you to keep the game without the subscription but go off

rohsaurus wrote: Are you  in the middle of the country because on the east coast, I don't have any data caps or any catches like that.

JIYONTEKUZA wrote: Yes, I agree totally. When I found that the new Cyber Power 880 I had just paid $2500 for had no DVD drive, I contacted their user support to find out why it was missing. They told me all-digital was the way to go, and I said "HELL NO!! I had enough trouble keeping my X Box One unplugged every time my router was on, and unplugging my router every time I wanted to play an X Box game, just to prevent getting shoved any Skyrim updates that would break my game ( a Skyrim game that can only be played for a month or two before needing to be restarted is no Skyrim game at all.) Depending upon a server that may or may not still exist next time I go to play, and hoping to dodge an update that makes a NEW GAME mandatory, is no way to live.

JIYONTEKUZA wrote:     Skyrim and many other disc-based games can be played totally off-line on an X Box One after that X Box One has been registered with Microsoft Live, and after any desired mods have been downloaded. These games can be installed off-line, from disc, as well. It seems there is some way to load mods onto USBs or an External Drive so that the hardware can be reset to factory default to purge any malware, and then mods that are no longer available from Bethesda.net can be re-installed from the memory device (but I have yet to discover that method.)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I am so happy to find that Kiesha (original) has returned to Bethnet, and I only need Heybaby_Jasmine and Immersive Footprints to restore my perfect load order from the time before Creation Club existed. I don't like recorder's new Ebony armor, and sadly no longer use her.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Microsoft's insistence that Skyrim be enlisted into its' ill-advised 4K and 1440p over-reaches led to serious overheating crashes on the hardware. The forced adoption of the wretched and accursed Survival Mode was to induce a cheap death every five minutes to give the CPU a chance to cool down when the 4K/1440p excesses overheated it, even if one only set the hardware to 1080p. I had to reset my X Box One to emulate new-out-of-the-box and change my identity to finally purge the vile and foul Survival Mode, and in doing so lost many of my beloved mods to their unavailablity due to their incompatibility with the latest worthless Creation Club update (Armored Mudcrab, anybody?). If I had taken my X Box off-line and kept it there the day before Creation Club was unleashed on an innocent world, I would probably now be finishing a completionist Skyrim playthrough using my adorable and magnificent April 2019 mod list, which I can never recover.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   May on-line only single-player games be damned for dogs!   I'm looking at you, Red Dead Redemption!   Your clunky set-pieces are not worth spending any data time upon!          

JIYONTEKUZA wrote: No they are not identical. CDs use the Wav. file format, which has 10x the data points as digital download's compressed MP3s.

ArngrimEinherjar wrote: ff7legend is totally right. Those streaming "services" and new forms of DRM may end up killing the freedom of the players. Also, some of us like OWNING our stuff.

d3m0n0id wrote: This is untrue. When your PS Plus sub lapses, you lose access to your games. Unless that's changed recently.

showler wrote: Games are only accessible while you are subscribed with the odd exception of xbox 360.

?Xbox Series X|S and Xbox One: You’ll no longer be able to access your Games with Gold titles if you cancel your subscription. However, if you decide to renew your subscription at any time, you’ll be able to access and play your previously redeemed Games with Gold titles again.
Xbox 360: Any Games with Gold titles that you redeem as an Xbox Live Gold or Xbox Game Pass Ultimate member are yours to keep, regardless of whether you continue your subscription.

?Expand your game collection with two PS4 games included every month – yours to play for as long as you’re a member.

I play Fallout 4 and Skyrim on Game Pass and it definitely isn't a streaming service. Like Steam, the game is on your computer until you decide to delete it/it gets removed from Game Pass. The only time a game wont get removed is when its a game owned by Microsoft. That includes games made by Bethesda. So if you buy a subscription to Game Pass (and continue to pay it), you essentially own any game made by Microsoft/Bethesda/Obsidian.

[zoobxms]

In response to post #91949348. #94760478, #95324748, #95329153 are all replies on the same post.

SKK50 wrote: "This solution has no dependencies on extenders or DLCs and does not change any existing base game scripts, assets or objects. It is 100% pure new Creation Kit forms and scripts which means that it works on PC, Xbox and GamePass with no load order dependencies."

Clear consumer guidance.

CreepyWitch1 wrote: THE TLDR , 
Microsoft took the biggest selling single game, of all time , AND REMOVED its biggest selling feature. ie Its modability 
what will this do , ? Force someone to take the steam game Hack it , to remove the steam account check and torrent it as a standalone package.  because if MS dont restore mods no one will buy it.  the Havok Bethesda Engine being so Modable is why people play skyrim

example Jagged alliance 2 has no been modded sucessfully since 1999 and is still playable with better graphics more items more rules etc and it was classed as ABANDONWARE..   

I wonder if the community IE NEXUS MODS  have a legal challenge against Microsoft for removing your source of business

Alternative solution , take the skyrim engine and reengineer the whole game as a independent platform , may mean getting new voice actors but it has also been argued that the game is almost public domain now since modded its hardly the original game anymore 

showler wrote: Well that's a massive load.

First, Moddability is not the biggest selling point of Skyrim.  The game is the biggest selling point.  This is made perfectly clear by the fact that it sells extremely well on platforms that don't support mods.

Second, what kind of nonsense is "force someone to take the steam game and hack it"?  You can BUY the game on Steam.  If you're not going to use the Gamepass version it does not give you any sort of license to pirate the game instead.  Just buy one of the versions that can be modded.

And the concept of Nexus suing Microsoft is so insane it boggles the mind.   Nexus only exists because the creators of the game allow it to do so.

1ae0bfb8 wrote:

THE TLDR , 
Microsoft took the biggest selling single game, of all time , AND REMOVED its biggest selling feature. ie Its modability 
what will this do , ? Force someone to take the steam game Hack it , to remove the steam account check and torrent it as a standalone package. 
because if MS dont restore mods no one will buy it.  the Havok Bethesda Engine being so Modable is why people play skyrim

example Jagged alliance 2 has no been modded sucessfully since 1999 and is still playable with better graphics more items more rules etc and it was classed as ABANDONWARE..   

I wonder if the community IE NEXUS MODS  have a legal challenge against Microsoft for removing your source of business

Alternative solution , take the skyrim engine and reengineer the whole game as a independent platform , may mean getting new voice actors but it has also been argued that the game is almost public domain now since modded its hardly the original game anymore 

thats one of the funniest posts i've ever read on here.

"Nexus only exists because the creators of the game allow it to do so. " god i hope you're not a lawyer, because this is a really poor world view.

When people provide essential components of any ecosystem they become partially or wholly liable for those components. It'd be pretty hard at this stage to separate Bethesda's games from the notion of "modding" and it'd be hard to completely ignore an existing ecosystem around mods and modding. And to find culpability with anything MS does is just a stones throw away, the only reason the DA has been asleep on the MS vs people case is because Jobs is dead and fascism and plagues are a bigger problem for the states than rogue software titans.  I don't advocate for suing MS but i was surprised when those kids in the UK managed to get the government to sue Hello Games and was doubly surprised there was an actual result and a glorious era ensued.

[zoobxms]

In response to post #91967003. #91979463, #91980208, #92042283, #92067333, #92140103, #92149073, #92390813, #92576988, #92589523, #92591058, #92607453, #92845128 are all replies on the same post.

TXChannel34 wrote: This is the predictable end of gaming. The general rule for a successful business is to find something that makes money and scale it. This is just Microsoft scaling it. They know that something that is this popular and the bygone conclusion is that there will be enough subscribers that will stay with it, they don't care about the odd ones out. When I bought games from a brick and mortar store for my new alienware laptop was like seeing my kids born, only to find out when I installed them on my computer and then launched it, it said I had to get this "steam" thing to run the game I bought on the computer I paid for. this is nothing more than money grabbing as many have noted. I don't buy a bunch of games, I don't play a bunch of them, there are a few that I have and like, and if there is a game that comes out that looks cool I will buy it, and if I don't like it, I stop playing it. I paid the developers for the privilege of trying it out. If I like it, I buy more of their games, more of their DLCs, etc. I am not going to go on down this road, you all know what I mean. Games like Fortnite and the like, sure, make em subscription stuff. Games like Fallout, Skyrim, etc, they are for refined gamers, they aren't plug and play shoot em ups. If you've ever had a problem with windows, and tried their customer support for a fix, you already know what sort of an invironment we find ourselves in now. Only in the corporate mind would anyone be ok with being turned from a player into a payer and expect the customer to be happy about it.

If they were serious about their plan and keeping us happy, they'd offer us the ability to pay a small one time charge for a game, and subscriptions would be optional with an "in app purchase". I'm still fuming about having had bought a game and have to run it through the steam client. I believe that it causes a lot of the crashes that I experience in the game. I can be playing, the game crashes, won't start back up again unless I go to task manager and force quit the 13 steam apps running in the background. But that's a different thread. I spent the last week downloading a bunch of mods and dlc and working the bugs out, and am still not done to my satisfaction, but it;'s getting there. Heck, on the microsoft platform, all you get is the vanilla game and No DLCs, no popular mods, nada. Just the opportunity to pay Microsoft $50 per month for the privilege of playing the vanilla game using their game client which is required to play at all.

Saggaris wrote: Have a Kudos for your 'rant' TX

I and a good few 'older' others feel the similar about being corporately stuffed.

GamingZacharyC wrote: Hold on a minute there: As far as we know, most Bethesda titles will be on the MS Store, yes, but we don't even know if they'll be on Steam, like Skyrim.  Personally, I'd prefer Bethesda releases their titles on Steam instead of the Bethesda.net Launcher because, honestly, that's too much bloat for my system. Bethesda titles, in my experience, are buggy and unoptimized. I don't need a buggy and unoptimized launcher running in the background, taking nibbles at my potato rig. Steam is very well optimized and well cared for.

As for the taskkilling the Steam processes: That is the game's fault. Steam provides a bunch of APIs for a game developer to make use of. If a game crashes and the game process isn't entirely dead, Steam provides an option to force quit a game if it is being stubborn. Personally, I've never had problems with Steam, only the games published on the platform. If the game crashes a lot, that's a very nieve answer to just blame the retailer service. The launcher is almost never the problem with a retailer; The problem is almost always with the game itself.

To top it all off, Game Pass is an *optional* thing, and it is $15 a month (for Ultimate), not $50. You can outright buy a copy of the game if you wish, or you can rent it and a bunch of other games for $15 a month. Personally, I would go Game Pass, but buy my Bethesda titles on Steam.


If there's one good thing I can see coming out of the MS-Zenimax deal, I do believe that Bethesda games will get better in terms of performance and bugs.

Kel1978 wrote: most Bethesda games are already on steam.  Also you can mod just mine with games from the Microsoft store. You just need to take ownership of the folder.

EnaiSiaion wrote: If the consumer rewards Microsoft for this move, it means game ownership, mods and so on don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

I used to care about owning games, too. Then I grew up. Adults don't have time to mess around with installing and managing games, they just want to hit a button and play.

This rant feels like a brick and mortar store owner trying to defend their business from online marketplaces. People will go where they want, and if they go somewhere else, you didn't have enough to offer in the first place.

I suspect most people could not care less about moddability, and by the next generation, the only games that can be modded are games that are designed as platforms for custom content, like Mario Maker and Trackmania, and only within the confines of their sandbox. People will like it because it eliminates much of the hassle (Skyrim mods are too clunky and unprofessional for the majority of users). And if their favourite game doesn't support mods, who cares? It will have DLC instead, and once the DLC runs out, play something else!

Saggaris wrote: You seem to be a bit mixed up there, have you noticed that here on Nexus there have been over four and a half billion mod downloads... so where are you getting the idea that most people don't care about moddability?
I personally feel that you are of the camp that doesn't care and are trying to convert the mod anointed.

I understand that priorities change as you age, but don't think for one moment it's about growing up, it's not, it's about choice and what you do with that choice, if you give that up willingly then you will never get it back as long as there is a buck to be made and a head to be patted... "Yes, clever boy, you've helped to make me a greater percentage on my investment, and it only costs the user... have a pat on the head"

HaltyRem wrote: @EnaiSiaion:
I do agree about existence of dendency toward declining of using mods in new games.
From my personal point of view the reasons are:
1) modern games are staying for much longer visually and gameplay-wise non-outdated, and less lacking of quality-of-life features, so the modern games need less fixes;
2) nowadays, there are very many games with different visual styles, roleplaying setting and options, gameplay modes, so there is less need for expanding with mods all of this in any particular ONE game;
3) it is much faster and easier to just use an additional game, which already has what is needed and is optimised for it;
4) those games, that provide extensive options to fine-tune almost everything in game, do not induce desire to mod it (OH WHY DEVELOPERS DO IT SO RARELY?!!!);
5) majority of the most profitable games are either multiplayer, or cooperative, and these types of games are much less moddable then singleplayer games.

Dravond wrote: Hey there is there a guide i can look at to use mods on ms store games?

Stiffon wrote: I think Saggaris got it right and you're both in the don't mod camp and think we should all join you. Wrong. I've spent days and weeks modding games like Skyrim and FO and still do. And I spend days playing them too - still. And I'm sure I will keep on modding in the future. I'm not new to gaming nor modding, but I definitely want the choice. Being an adult means having choice.

vapor78 wrote: I like how a few comments on here make back handed swipes at the mod community as a whole... comments like " *adults* dont have time.. blah blah" these remarks are specifically stated to be dimunitive towards folks who do mod.. cuz by that logic if you mod, you arent an adult..

the bethesda games have been kept alive BY modding, ppl wouldnt still be playing marrowind or oblivion if not for mods, as another user pointed out, there have been billions of mod downloads which trumps the amount of games even sold.
ppl mod... freedom of choice and customization is what brings mods to the forefront.
Modding wasnt always a mainstream thing either, it gained popularity and now some "users" whom werent modders to begin with want to tell us we dont need mods... if that was the case, then the mods never would have existed to begin with.
Adding options to customize a game is no where even close to modding a game, some people clearly dont know anything about the subject they have an opinion about..
Lastly.. if you dont want something, cool, dont use it, but wtf is it with people that feel if they dont need it then by default it means it shouldnt even exist?

showler wrote: I would be amused if you are including EnaiSiaion, author of more than a dozen popular Skyrim mods, as someone who is against modding.

akarageface wrote: You're jumping the gun pretty hardcore here, bud. There's no possible way Microsoft would switch to a subscription ONLY model for their games. There will always be the ability to just buy a copy. There is no incentive to Microsoft or Bethesda to prevent this. Hell, ensuring the Game Pass version is crappy for mods just incentives Game Pass owners to end up buying the game outright, which double dips profit for Microsoft, since they would get the Game Pass subscription on top of the full retail purchase. 

Also...not sure where the hell you're paying $50/month for Game Pass, but you should probably get your money back, since that's over 3x the actual price. Kinda undercuts your argument when you don't understand Game Pass in the first place.

Just my two cents. 

SweXtal wrote: This may be a bit of topic. But if we take the Cyberpunk 2077 game, it's available through Steam (With Steam protection) or GOG (No protection whatsoever). My 25y old daughter darn herself for signing up for the steam release instead of like myself, waited for the GOG release.

We've paid exactly the same amount for the game but she can't play it without an internet connection unless she goes through setting steam into offline mode while having an internet connection. I can.

I've been playing and enjoying Skyrim for almost 10 years now, and I love the mod ability of it and how creative people are creating and intervening new content. Same goes for Fallout series, but fallout 4 was quite abruptly aborted when expanding the gamiverse. So I tried Fallout 3. Which was almost more hysterically fun. I love the guy in the party hat in a train wagon in a radioactive pool of goo... (far far northwest and you have to be in god mode to get there).

Tinker with games (and things) is fun. And not allowing creative people to change things to the better/worse is just...stupid.

The way to less bugs is less modding. So be careful what you wish for, from my perspective removing access to advanced modding will provide that exact goal and it's not a goal I nor anyone at Nexus should want.

[zoobxms]

In response to post #91956388.

JimboUK wrote: I had the Outer Worlds on Game Pass and it was a pain in the rear end to try and mod, I gave up with it in the end and waited for the Steam version. 

took me an entire weekend just to get the game to install on Win10 Pro. I do a lot of work from home, lot of programming etc, so i use vpn's and multiple microsoft identities, that's just a normal part of being a collaborator with multiple companies, but apparently their multinent auth system is garbage over GamePass because they use cross domains that conflict with the gamepass auth, ie; cookie auth domain of other user is used in a remote audit check from GP and returns a generic failure. Took 50 hours to figure that lol >flush all auths. Everything microsoft devs seems to use linear testing, extreme X and extreme Y but never XY. So for somebody who does edge case things a lot it means anything Microsoft touches can easily turn to garbage.  I can barely use any of their products without punching myself in the face, it's all consumer hostile / outdated trash, all of it. I couldn't name a single thing they've done that is even remotely modern or not a pain to use.

[Hamrwolf]

Is New Vegas supported by Vortex? 

[TheBattleRattler]

can a make mods if I have the gamepass version? or does it have to be steam release?

[HadToRegister]

In response to post #95945228.

TheBattleRattler wrote: can a make mods if I have the gamepass version? or does it have to be steam release?

Did you read ANY of the Thread??