Trying to understand

[Arthmoor]

Why are you guys so far up your own butt that you think that Nexus will ignore advice from mod authors even when it is beneficial to the Nexus? You think the staff are entirely driven by spite now?

To be perfectly honest, yes. That's exactly how I feel things are being run now. Spite for the mod authors who provide the content. Their behavior hasn't given me any reason to think otherwise either.

[showler]

 

Good catch. Even I didn't realize that when I read that. Wow ... I sort of feel like they worded things like that on purpose, pretty shady.

 

It might not be shady. So many TOS pages use boilerplate information from do it yourself type websites. They tend to give very broad definitions of "rights" so that the site can't be caught out.

[SkyLover264]

 

Why are you guys so far up your own butt that you think that Nexus will ignore advice from mod authors even when it is beneficial to the Nexus? You think the staff are entirely driven by spite now?

To be perfectly honest, yes. That's exactly how I feel things are being run now. Spite for the mod authors who provide the content. Their behavior hasn't given me any reason to think otherwise either.

 

That's how I feel too: as though they're intentionally conducting this poorly because they're angry at us for daring to point out the holes in their plans.

[ScytheBearer]

 

 

Why are you guys so far up your own butt that you think that Nexus will ignore advice from mod authors even when it is beneficial to the Nexus? You think the staff are entirely driven by spite now?

To be perfectly honest, yes. That's exactly how I feel things are being run now. Spite for the mod authors who provide the content. Their behavior hasn't given me any reason to think otherwise either.

 

That's how I feel too: as though they're intentionally conducting this poorly because they're angry at us for daring to point out the holes in their plans.

 

Add me to that list. The Gestapo like approach to this change looks almost self destructive.

Edited July 31, 2021 by ScytheBearer

[MarchinBunny]

 

Why are you guys so far up your own butt that you think that Nexus will ignore advice from mod authors even when it is beneficial to the Nexus? You think the staff are entirely driven by spite now?

To be perfectly honest, yes. That's exactly how I feel things are being run now. Spite for the mod authors who provide the content. Their behavior hasn't given me any reason to think otherwise either.

 

I doubt Nexus is trying to spite mod authors. They just disagree with you and you disagree with them. If Nexus had some form of spite against mod authors like you ... I am sure they would have already locked this thread and kept it locked and lock every thread that brings up the discussion of collections or the new terms. Heck, probably even ban them or something.

 

It doesn't come off as spite, it comes off more like ... they have not even released the system yet ... and likely want it to first be seen and used .. get proper feedback from authors with first hand experience with the system. Rather than going off of premature negative reactions before it's ever released, before they have even tried it. Afterall, they always knew it was going to get negative responses regardless of how it's done. Because it isn't just about not being able to delete files, there are many mod authors who also don't like the idea of collection either (the delete thing is just the lowest hanging fruit to use to pick a fight with, if it didn't exist many would just be picking apart something else). You can go back to any news post in the last couple years where they talked about their work toward collection and read the comments from some mod authors. Many of which are here right now, doing literally exactly the same thing they did then.

 

And that isn't me throwing shade, that is me again ... pointing out that they already knew this was going to happen. So they likely already knew they would need to stand their ground and not just give up before they got to the start line.

 

Edit:

Actually .. I have a good idea to really explain this situation pretty well from a creators perspective. And this will work for anyone who has ever spent a lot of time, blood sweat and tears into making/developing something that they feel is amazing and they can't wait till they can publicly start talking about it.

 

Finally you reveal everything. (Let's say it's an upgrade to a previous mod with loads of change that you feel will make the mod much better.). But ... now you have comments coming in from let's say a handful of users, enough to be disheartening. They dislike it and think you are ruining the mod. Now here is the question for you. Would you backtrack because of those negative people. Or would you hold firm in your belief this is going to be better? After all, you know what it's like ... you made it. They have not even tried it yet. I think most mod authors would proceed, especially if they have spent years of work on this and truly believe it's going to be amazing. It's something they are passionate about. And I think the same applies here for Nexus and what they have plans for here.

 

Many people who disagree with the changes may think you are doing it just to spite them and/or the community. After all, many users already think mod authors try to spite the community all the time because of the dynamic like this that occur between the mod authors and users where it feels like the mod authors rarely listens or can come off overly aggressive to a question, or when the users feel they are not allowed to give negative feedback.

[Arthmoor]

Brabbit, you realize this isn't about Collections at all, right? My sole gripe throughout all of this is blocking my right to delete files when and how I see fit to do so. That's all. Everything else is just a distraction from the issue, but I see you're good at trying to do exactly that.

 

That doesn't mean I am happy they're offering an all or nothing nuclear option, or a form for more specific full mod page deletions either. I simply want to be able to continue to administer MY MODS, MY WAY, as I've been able to do for years. Which means when one gets updated, I want to throw the old copy out the airlock. But they've revoked our access codes to the airlock doors without a valid technical reason for it.

 

And no, making the lives of curators less of a hassle isn't a valid technical reason. That's a convenient scapegoat and nothing more. There is no valid technical reason for why a file deletion on demand should cause any sort of integrity issues in their database AT ALL. If it were at all true, then the entire world of databases and software would have crumbled to dust decades ago.

[MarchinBunny]

Brabbit, you realize this isn't about Collections at all, right? My sole gripe throughout all of this is blocking my right to delete files when and how I see fit to do so. That's all. Everything else is just a distraction from the issue, but I see you're good at trying to do exactly that.

 

That doesn't mean I am happy they're offering an all or nothing nuclear option, or a form for more specific full mod page deletions either. I simply want to be able to continue to administer MY MODS, MY WAY, as I've been able to do for years. Which means when one gets updated, I want to throw the old copy out the airlock. But they've revoked our access codes to the airlock doors without a valid technical reason for it.

 

And no, making the lives of curators less of a hassle isn't a valid technical reason. That's a convenient scapegoat and nothing more. There is no valid technical reason for why a file deletion on demand should cause any sort of integrity issues in their database AT ALL. If it were at all true, then the entire world of databases and software would have crumbled to dust decades ago.

If you actually paid attention to the point of my comment, you would know it doesn't matter what part you disagree with. The point still stands. This is the system they want to put in place, and you disagree with that system or it's requirements that they feel they need. You disagree that it's required, and they disagree with you and feel it is required. It's not spite, you and they just disagree. And rather than pulling the abort switch before they hit the start line because some disagree which they already knew some would, they would rather at least get it out the door, because maybe it will become more apparent to some of you why they made the choices they have when it's actually being used.

 

Edit: Also, me mentioning collections in my last comment was more about past negativity about them, even before the information about not being able to delete mods fully. This is only the newest argument against collections in the way they want to implement them. And that isn't me pointing to anyone specific. Just that they are here. There are people who disagree with collections as a whole ... that is a fact. And I can even prove it simply by going back and quoting some mod authors. There have even been some mods removed where their reasoning specifically says as much. Not everyone here is just mad about not being able to delete files, some never liked the idea of collections at all.

[Guest deleted34304850]

gaslighting 101 right there (above).

[TheIronChicken]

I have no problem with collections but after 10 years I've taken my files down because they handled this whole situation so badly and now I don't trust them to do the right thing by us in the future. I stayed with Nexus this long because I felt like they had our backs. That was what made Nexus different. But the way they went about this made me re-think that.

My mods are only on Bethnet and Workshop now, I never thought I'd see the day when my mods would be on those platforms rather than here. This timeline is so borked.

[Guest deleted34304850]

 

 

 

Why are you guys so far up your own butt that you think that Nexus will ignore advice from mod authors even when it is beneficial to the Nexus? You think the staff are entirely driven by spite now?

To be perfectly honest, yes. That's exactly how I feel things are being run now. Spite for the mod authors who provide the content. Their behavior hasn't given me any reason to think otherwise either.

 

That's how I feel too: as though they're intentionally conducting this poorly because they're angry at us for daring to point out the holes in their plans.

 

Add me to that list. The Gestapo like approach to this change looks almost self destructive.

 

i've seen nothing in any "official" response that has contained any kind of empathy, or consideration towards obvious mod author concerns.

 

All dissent has been closed down (with the obvious exemption of derailment and gaslighting - this thread is an example of that) and the consistent response is - that's been answered if you don't like it, leave. Answers that have been given have been deliberately obfuscated with word salad and very clever, non-commital responses and once answered, threads have been locked down to prevent further questioning/understanding.

 

What I take from this is that you - the vocal few modders - don't matter. Just as the silent majority of modders don't matter. Just as the silent majority of users don't matter. The data on the servers is what matters, because access to it can be monetized in some way. Everything else is secondary to that. And a long way secondary at that.

 

The fallacy of we can't delete stuff as it breaks things is just that, a fallacy. The solution to that fallacy is to peddle a lie and use very duplicitous practices to prevent you from deleting your work, rather than come up with any kind of compromise or design a system that can deal with file deletions. That would add complexity to the solution and complexity costs money.

 

The whole architecture of this new "solution" is wrong, and rather than deal with the added complexity of file deletions, they contrived to remove that option completely by preventing them using very dubious practices. Two more key components of this solution are user ignorance and user acceptance. The former is a key selling point of the whole business model (the whole we want to make modding easy strawman). The latter is achieved on August 5.

 

Trust as it maybe once was has been destroyed quite willingly by one side in this argument. There may be a long-game being played here, where trust doesn't matter in the long-term, so can be eroded now, and maybe a bit of short-tern bellyaching is a good price to pay to get to the end-game, because despite all the fuss the vast majority of mods remain in-situ and really, nothing much has changed.