Trying to understand

[showler]

 

Also, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't go after Showler. Given that many of his comments in the last few pages have been in response to me.

Don't worry about it, I put them on ignore more than a week ago.

[xrayy]

@kamari - i'm sorry about some ignorance here for the simple and easy to understand position of modders. i don't know what the intention of the people is who ignore the needs of mod authors but one thing is clear:

without mods and creative and motivated modders there is no mod, there is no mod collection and there is no nexusmods. some people with a high number of posts here seem to simply ignore that. i don't know their motivation.

[KamariBVB]

 

 

Yeah, I read that part of the article. It doesn't mean I don't think they're full of it. MO2, although a little complicated, is proof that it is possible at least to create a tool to handle organizing load orders and fixing mod conflicts automatically without angering and violating boundaries of mod authors by preventing people from deleting their content.

 

I've heard someone say that all of this is justified because when you upload something on the internet, you should be prepared for people to do what they want with your content. I don't agree. It is one thing to not be able to completely stop people from using mod files on their platform in ways that the creator(s) don't like. Its another entirely to not only purposely create a tool that would encourage people to do that, but also allow those people to make money from doing so.

 

Do you think it is fair to say that as it is right now, the collection system would be likely to benefit mod authors the least?

MO2 doesn't do a quarter of what Collections will do. Also, just for the record, the person who created MO is now the developer of Vortex for the Nexus.

 

The removal of deletions is to create reliable Collections that are not vulnerable to the removal of needed files whenever a mod author feels like it. This is something that does not currently exist with any other Collection like option. Wabbajack, ModDrop...even basic lists are vulnerable to removed mods.

 

I'm not sure if they've even decided if Curators will be able to earn money, but it will be a very small amount compared to what will go to the authors of the mod on the list. If the Collection contained 99 mods, at best the curator would get 1/100th of the DP (assuming everyone is opted in for DP).

 

It will probably benefit mod authors the least because the greatest benefit is intended for the mod users. Mod authors and Nexus will benefit from increased membership and Premium payments.

 

And yet, it is the mod authors who will sacrifice the most, will they not? This is why I don't blame them for being upset at how NM has handled this.

Yes, I read the announcement, so I know their reasoning for the removal of deletions. To be fair, it does sound like they've implemented this in a way that makes it as hard as possible for people to access archived files outside of collections. So they do get a little bit of credit there. My thing is I can't see why it wouldn't be the right thing to do to just accept it if a mod author didn't want to have their mod be part of a collection. There are all sorts of free tutorials online that teach people how to make their own mods, after all.

[KamariBVB]

@kamari - i'm sorry about some ignorance here for the simple and easy to understand position of modders. i don't know what the intention of the people is who ignore the needs of mod authors but one thing is clear:

without mods and creative and motivated modders there is no mod, there is no mod collection and there is no nexusmods. some people with a high number of posts here seem to simply ignore that. i don't know their motivation

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not

[showler]

 

And yet, it is the mod authors who will sacrifice the most, will they not? This is why I don't blame them for being upset at how NM has handled this.

 

Yes, I read the announcement, so I know their reasoning for the removal of deletions. To be fair, it does sound like they've implemented this in a way that makes it as hard as possible for people to access archived files outside of collections. So they do get a little bit of credit there. My thing is I can't see why it wouldn't be the right thing to do to just accept it if a mod author didn't want to have their mod be part of a collection. There are all sorts of free tutorials online that teach people how to make their own mods, after all.

The amount the mod author is sacrificing is the largest subject of debate. To some, the removal of deletions (along with the rather questionable "edit" rights) amounts to taking ownership of the mods. To others, like me, it's another restriction on your rights akin to the inability to sell your mods, which is less than taking ownership. It has to be the mod authors decision whether or not it is going too far.

 

The "no opt-out" thing is because you can't opt-out of any of the other Collection like systems. They would rather lose mod authors who don't agree with them than create a system that is hamstrung from the outset by being more limited in available mods than the other choices.

[KamariBVB]

My issue with taking control of content you do not own aside, I do forsee some other issues with collections that I feel the need to mention. The primary one being that I really think it will be important that people have the option to download mods one at a time. Why? Because some people have Internet connections with datacaps. Trust me when I say that I know the pain of using up an entire months worth of data in a week and subsequently having to suffer through ridiculously slow speeds, even while paying over $100 for internet access. I'm talking slow as in Netflix-isn't-any-fun-anymore-because-it-stops-to-buffer-every-three-fricken-seconds-and-takes-forever kind of slow. I'm talking feeling the need to celebrate when realizing that a mod from NexusMOds is downloading at a speed faster than 1 mbps while using a premium account. I'm talking about speeds so slow it almost completely defeats the purpose of using the internet at all because it becomes hard to do anything with it

[showler]

My issue with taking control of content you do not own aside, I do forsee some other issues with collections that I feel the need to mention. The primary one being that I really think it will be important that people have the option to download mods one at a time. Why? Because some people have Internet connections with datacaps. Trust me when I say that I know the pain of using up an entire months worth of data in a week and subsequently having to suffer through ridiculously slow speeds, even while paying over $100 for internet access. I'm talking slow as in Netflix-isn't-any-fun-anymore-because-it-stops-to-buffer-every-three-fricken-seconds-and-takes-forever kind of slow. I'm talking feeling the need to celebrate when realizing that a mod from NexusMOds is downloading at a speed faster than 1 mbps while using a premium account. I'm talking about speeds so slow it almost completely defeats the purpose of using the internet at all because it becomes hard to do anything with it

Vortex has built-in throttling options. It might have a data cap option, I haven't looked. If it doesn't, it would be an easy add. Definitely something to be brought up during the beta test, whenever that is planned for.

[KamariBVB]

 

My issue with taking control of content you do not own aside, I do forsee some other issues with collections that I feel the need to mention. The primary one being that I really think it will be important that people have the option to download mods one at a time. Why? Because some people have Internet connections with datacaps. Trust me when I say that I know the pain of using up an entire months worth of data in a week and subsequently having to suffer through ridiculously slow speeds, even while paying over $100 for internet access. I'm talking slow as in Netflix-isn't-any-fun-anymore-because-it-stops-to-buffer-every-three-fricken-seconds-and-takes-forever kind of slow. I'm talking feeling the need to celebrate when realizing that a mod from NexusMOds is downloading at a speed faster than 1 mbps while using a premium account. I'm talking about speeds so slow it almost completely defeats the purpose of using the internet at all because it becomes hard to do anything with it

Vortex has built-in throttling options. It might have a data cap option, I haven't looked. If it doesn't, it would be an easy add. Definitely something to be brought up during the beta test, whenever that is planned for.

Unfortunately I doubt I will have the privliedge of bringing that up then. Can I trust you to do so, or find someone else?

[KamariBVB]

t

 

 

 

And yet, it is the mod authors who will sacrifice the most, will they not? This is why I don't blame them for being upset at how NM has handled this.

 

Yes, I read the announcement, so I know their reasoning for the removal of deletions. To be fair, it does sound like they've implemented this in a way that makes it as hard as possible for people to access archived files outside of collections. So they do get a little bit of credit there. My thing is I can't see why it wouldn't be the right thing to do to just accept it if a mod author didn't want to have their mod be part of a collection. There are all sorts of free tutorials online that teach people how to make their own mods, after all.

The amount the mod author is sacrificing is the largest subject of debate. To some, the removal of deletions (along with the rather questionable "edit" rights) amounts to taking ownership of the mods. To others, like me, it's another restriction on your rights akin to the inability to sell your mods, which is less than taking ownership. It has to be the mod authors decision whether or not it is going too far.

 

The "no opt-out" thing is because you can't opt-out of any of the other Collection like systems. They would rather lose mod authors who don't agree with them than create a system that is hamstrung from the outset by being more limited in available mods than the other choices.

So there is no way to design a new system that offers that?

[KamariBVB]

Another idea I've heard thrown around is to start having people only use one mod per playthrough that would take care of all their needs. Yeah, it would be enormous and probably take forever, but I would imagine that would take care of conflicts. I hope this works out for the better for everyone...