Trying to understand

[MarchinBunny]

 

You can't opt out of rival systems.

Earlier on in this thread, you said it would be easy enough to implement an opt out collections system. The bottom line: it is possible to streamline the process of creating a load order without encouraging-and even creating the tool to allow people to-use a mod file in a manner that the owner does not approve of.

 

To be honest, I don't think a mod author's view on how a mod is downloaded or installed should matter. I can't think of a single good reason why they should have that right to tell everyone else how things should be done in that regard. If I created a list of mods of the most essentially mods, and linked to downloads for each of the mods in that list ... I would never listen to a mod author trying to tell me I can't do that with their mod because it's ridiculous. That would be like a mod author telling which mod organizer I can and cannot use with their mod.

 

An opt out would be the exact same thing as doing that, because all a collection is ... is a list of mods and where to get them. Not even curseforge has an opt out as far as I am aware.

[KamariBVB]

The problem is that in order to do so they would need to put in blocks on the website that the website owner does not approve of.

 

Modders may have "built this website" by their own claims. But they don't own any of it. They don't make any decisions regarding its future. They haven't invested any money in it, they don't have any employees to look after.

 

Unless both the modder and the site owner agree that the move is mutually beneficial, then they need to split up. Because the modder cannot force Robin to do something he thinks is wrong. And apparently they can't convince him that what he wants to do is wrong

Unfortunately, I'm starting to think that we really must part ways.

Also, for the record, even if I were a mod author that had uploaded here, I would never claim to own the website itself. Since enrolling in the VR/Augmented reality programing class this semester, I have realized that developing and modding overlap far less than I originally thought. So yes, I'm not claiming that mod authors own the site, nor do I recall a mod author ever claiming that. And for the record, I would never deny that the owners of the website have the right to-and should!-earn revenue from the website. Just not the mods themselves.

 

Another thing I would like to contribute: modding doesn't work on just any machine. In 2019 (I think), I spent around a month scouring the internet for a laptop powerful enough to run blender, but less than $1000. I failed. Plus, some of us may have sought out and participated in professional training. I remember what computer I had at the time. It was crashing constantly because it lacked a dedicated graphics card. That's pretty much a must for any gaming machine.

Edited July 21, 2021 by KamariBVB

[KamariBVB]

 

 

You can't opt out of rival systems.

Earlier on in this thread, you said it would be easy enough to implement an opt out collections system. The bottom line: it is possible to streamline the process of creating a load order without encouraging-and even creating the tool to allow people to-use a mod file in a manner that the owner does not approve of.

 

To be honest, I don't think a mod author's view on how a mod is downloaded or installed should matter. I can't think of a single good reason why they should have that right to tell everyone else how things should be done in that regard. If I created a list of mods of the most essentially mods, and linked to downloads for each of the mods in that list ... I would never listen to a mod author trying to tell me I can't do that with their mod because it's ridiculous. That would be like a mod author telling which mod organizer I can and cannot use with their mod.

 

An opt out would be the exact same thing as doing that, because all a collection is ... is a list of mods and where to get them. Not even curseforge has an opt out as far as I am aware.

 

How about because of all the time and effort it can take to create a great mod? How about because it requires a skillset that takes time to cultivate? How about because that's literally not how it works with real-world objects? You can spend all the time you want searching for illegal ways to watch tv shows or movies, its still f*#@ing illegal and you can still go to jail for that. No matter how much you may love the movie/tv show.

[MarchinBunny]

 

How about because of all the time and effort it can take to create a great mod? How about because it requires a skillset that takes time to cultivate? How about because that's literally not how it works with real-world objects? You can spend all the time you want searching for illegal ways to watch tv shows or movies, its still f***ing illegal and you can still go to jail for that. No matter how much you may love the movie/tv show.

 

I don't see how that is a good reason to just do whatever they want. I am a creator, and even I don't think people should bend over backwards to just listen to everything I say. There are lines that have to be drawn somewhere. Also, we are not even talking about something illegal here. The files are uploaded HERE on this site uploaded by the creator. No one is accessing it from anywhere else when they create a list. So it's not the same thing.

[KamariBVB]

So to summarize here. I think it is reasonable to expect that Nexus mods allow us to opt out of allowing our mods to be put in collections. You do not.

Its a shame, because I would think that some sort of workaround could be figured out if this request could be granted.

I am frustrated. I am disheartened. I am worried for the future of this platform. And I am angry. And what's the most frustrating thing of all is that I absolutely love the idea of simplifying the process of creating a load order, and so many other mod authors do as well. I agree, we could do something great if we were to work together.

 

But how is it reasonable to demand that we agree to allow our mods to be used for an allegedly brand new tool that even the creators don't know exactly how is going to work, all within a month, considering we stand to sacrifice more than any of the other parties, but gain less. I know how much time I can end up spending creating a 3d model for a mod. I am known to stay at the computer modeling for an entire day, because I absolutely love it. It brings me so much joy. I think a big part of what bothers me personally about this is not knowing for sure if this Vortex collection thingy is going to break our mods or if it is not...I've been screwed over by Vortex before, after all. Before I started using MM02, it ended up corrupting my files, which forced me to undownload everything and then redownload everything. It set me back by quite a bit....

[showler]

I know how much time I can end up spending creating a 3d model for a mod. I am known to stay at the computer modeling for an entire day, because I absolutely love it. It brings me so much joy.

You know, if you don't think of "mod authors" as some sort of collective entity, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any single author who has put anywhere near as much work into the Nexus as Robin has.

 

With Collections alone it has been a project he and his staff have been working on for more than three years. They've examined it from every direction they can think of. Yet, these threads are full of people saying "having given this a single day of thought I can explain everything they need to do to make this work." Honestly, they've thought of all those ideas already. They've discarded them because they don't result in the system they feel they need to build.

 

It's going to have to be time for some people to move on and hope that they can find an adequate solution. Or someone else willing to invest a couple of decades into developing one.

[Zanderat]

I wonder if admins will still think I'm irrelevant once I release a tutorial about how to use github to upload mod files, and then work together with a influential Modder to create a social media group where all the links to the repos could go?

That'll show'em! :wink:

[KamariBVB]

a

 

 

I know how much time I can end up spending creating a 3d model for a mod. I am known to stay at the computer modeling for an entire day, because I absolutely love it. It brings me so much joy.

You know, if you don't think of "mod authors" as some sort of collective entity, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any single author who has put anywhere near as much work into the Nexus as Robin has.

 

With Collections alone it has been a project he and his staff have been working on for more than three years. They've examined it from every direction they can think of. Yet, these threads are full of people saying "having given this a single day of thought I can explain everything they need to do to make this work." Honestly, they've thought of all those ideas already. They've discarded them because they don't result in the system they feel they need to build.

 

It's going to have to be time for some people to move on and hope that they can find an adequate solution. Or someone else willing to invest a couple of decades into developing one.

And for the millionth time, that is exactly the problem. What is disheartening is that he is allegedly a former mod author, and yet he still feels we do not deserve to have the right to prevent the fruits of our labors from being subjected to a tool that may or may not be a flaming hot pile of mess, at least at first. Also, did he even create any of the mods on this site? I'll be frank, if that's true, I can't believe the entitlement hes showing by insisting that he should have the right to use the fruits of our labor as his guinea pigs for this project of his, no matter how much we protest or how wonderful the end goal.

For what feels like the millionth time: he and his employees deserve all the credit for the website. But not our mods. We created the mods. He did not help with the creation process itself. And his own damn TOS gives us ownership of our content. US. not him. Or her, or them. That's not to say that he played no part, because this is the biggest source of mods.

Edited July 22, 2021 by KamariBVB

[showler]

I really can't understand what you think Collections is going to do to you or your mods?

[KamariBVB]

I really can't understand what you think Collections is going to do to you or your mods?

Corrupt or otherwise damage them.

Did it occur to him that this entire process of his might be emotionally painful for some of us? I can't say that I know for sure that other mod authors feel the same as me, but I'm not kidding when I say modding and 3d modeling brings me so much joy and fulfillment. I adore it. I spend lots of time and effort on them. So....there's no doubt that I would be f*#@ing devastated if someone decided it was okay to use the fruits of my intensive labor as an experiment for a too that might damage it, no matter how much I protested.

Here's an idea. How about he make his own mods to use as a test to work out the bugs. Come with us with a clear idea of what he's asking us to agree to, or not. That's reasonable.