Mod authors should have made a master list of locations

[RoNin1971]

 

 

Guys, its pointless. It was already obvious this guy ignores everything said to prove him wrong, on page 2.

 

So, instead of ignoring the facts and defending his 'idea' up to a hilarious point, he might do better to prove us all wrong by actually creating such database and fill it up himself.

Should be easy, I hear. :dry:

 

...but just like this 'idea', that will never happen. Just like this thread ending, for as long as we go against it.

 

So I'll just quote:

 

It is my honest opinion that the troll has been fed enough. If y'all stop feeding it, this could end. Twelve pages of this is eleven too many.

 

Please don't feed the troll.

 

what if i want to add a post? as long as i abide by the tos, i'm free to do it - on the other hand - surely if you don't want to read the posts in the forum, then do as the tos say and move on, rather than thinking you have the right to tell anyone whether they can post in a forum or not?

 

Chill out. Its a request, not a demand.

 

If you wish to endlessly continue a pointless discussion, by all means, go ahead.

Just let me get some more popcorn! :tongue:

[Guest deleted34304850]

i understand the nuance between a request and a demand. my point remains. as long as the post is within the tos, you don't get the right to request/demand people stop posting to a thread simply because you don't like what you're reading. just move on.

[HadToRegister]

OP's question was answered in the SECOND POST by me, even a Moderator said as much in the FOURTH post of this thread.
Thread has been solved 15 pages ago, yet people still want this dragged out for no reason at all.

[Guest deleted34304850]

oh i just like reading the analogies that come along. they are not at all accurate, but very funny.

[hucker75]

 

what i find breathtaking is that this guy cannot/will not read a mod description.

can you imagine if he had to wade through a database of what elements a mod alters?

 

he's beyond parody.

 

I can't read conflicts in a mod description, because to give away what had been placed where is a spoiler.

how would you know fhey are in a spoiler, if you can't read them? and does something being placed in a spoiler tag

 

mean that no matter what you do, you will simply never see this piece of text, ever in your life?

 

 

and, have you ever thought, based on all the content in this thread,

 

it may just be you?

 

 

 

Even in a spoiler tag, I could read them. The author might not want cheats.

 

 

Okay, I'm going to try (probably uselessly) to explain one of the most obvious technical problems with your idea and why people use patches instead. I'm going to ignore all teh sociological reasons why it won't work since you also seem to be ignoring those reasons.

Let us posit that we have five mods which conflict due to object placements. This is the simplest thing your idea could "fix" so we'll stick with that. Mod A is the first one released, "The Bounty Office" (and immediately abandoned by the author). Mod B was released next and is called "Commonwealth Regulators". Mod C was next "Presumption of Innocence? Murdering accused criminals for fun and profit". Mod D is "Mutiny at the Bounty" and Mod E is "Gun for Hire" and was released fairly recently.

The author of Mod E creates an office space in Diamond City for their mod. They want to block off an unneeded hallway with rubble because having it open looks weird. They want to put some kitty pictures on a wall for decoration, and a bookcase with some books and a water cooler and other stuff to make the office look nice.

So, they go onto your database and find out that the rubble blocking the hall blocks a door from Mod A. And the kitty pictures conflict with a door from Mod B. The bookcase blocks a door from Mod C and the water cooler/other kibble blocks something from Mod D.

According to your theory, the Mod Author of Mod E has to remove all those items in order to avoid conflicting with those other mods. And if a player happens to use all five mods that makes sense. But if the player is only using Mod E then the office looks bizarrely bare for no reason with big empty spaces where it looks like something should be. Even if the player is using one or two of the other mods, there are still empty spots that serve no purpose. They are empty only to cater to other players.

But the other option is to make patches. You make a patch for Mod A and Mod E that removes the rubble. You make a patch for Mod B and Mod E that removes the kitty pictures. You make a patch for Mod C and Mod E that removes the bookcases and you make a patch for Mod D and Mod E that removes the water cooler and other kibble. Then players that are only using Mod E get the office as the Author intended. Players that are using A and E keep the door from A accessible while having all the other items still in place. Players using A, D and E avoid conflicts but still get the kitty pictures and water cooler/kibble.

You avoid the conflicts while causing the least possible disruption to any of the mods. And since the patches can be ESL format they don't even take up mod slots that you could use for other mods.

That is the most basic reason why your idea is not a good one. So, if you have a conflict in your game, either request a patch or make one yourself. It's better for everyone.

 

 

You said mod A was abandoned, just how is this patch to be made?

 

And best to make your mod compatible with everything wherever possible, makes it easier on the user, who is a gamer not a programmer and doesn't want to mess about with patches. Note I've said it's voluntary. If you think your new mod only conflicts with mods that virtually nobody uses, then just go ahead.

 

 

I gave two analogies then realised they were going over everyone's head. I actually spoke to someone today and tried to use an analogy, and she stopped me before I started, and told me she doesn't understand analogies. And no, it's not because of analogies I've used in the past, I've not met her before.

So based on one interaction, which probably happened only in your imagination, you've inferred that everybody in this thread also suffers from the inability to understand (your) analogies even though over the course of several posts they were systematically demolished using facts and logic and objectively better analogies were put forward.

 

Not only are you bad at analogies, your inability to recognise this is a clear demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger Effect, a form of cognitive bias identified in the 1999 study: Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments.

 

 

How much info do you need

He doesn't need any info. You're the one who wants it done. You need the info. Again, expecting other people to solve your problems for you.

 

 

I can't read conflicts in a mod description, because to give away what had been placed where is a spoiler.

Ah so herein lies the nub, if I understand your point correctly. You won't create the database yourself because it would spoil part of each mod. But it's OK if it spoils it for other people so other people should create the database for you to remain blissfully spoiler-free.

 

So you're entitled, selfish and delusional.

 

 

Creating the database now would be next to impossible, going through 1000s of mods that were created long ago by people no longer around. But from the start it was feasible. Not much extra work when you've just written an entire mod.

[showler]

You were told that there are about 350 mods in Sanctuary. If you come along now how are you supposed to place ANYTHING in Sanctuary if you have to avoid conflicts with all 350 previous mods. And if you don't avoid conflicts with them all, why avoid conflicts with any of them?

 

Patches solve conflicts between the mods you are actually using without having to compensate for literally hundreds of mods you aren't using.

 

If you can't understand why that's important than you know nothing about games or modding at all.

[HeyYou]

 

And best to make your mod compatible with everything wherever possible

 

What you don't seem to understand here, is a basic tenet of modding. It simply ISN'T possible to make your mod compatible with 'everything'. If you make ONE change in a cell, your mod is no longer compatible with any other mod that changes that cell.

[hucker75]

You were told that there are about 350 mods in Sanctuary. If you come along now how are you supposed to place ANYTHING in Sanctuary if you have to avoid conflicts with all 350 previous mods. And if you don't avoid conflicts with them all, why avoid conflicts with any of them?

 

Patches solve conflicts between the mods you are actually using without having to compensate for literally hundreds of mods you aren't using.

 

If you can't understand why that's important than you know nothing about games or modding at all.

 

You have to avoid conflicts with other decent mods that lots of people use, or lots of people will get very angry with you. If you can't avoid them all by moving your stuff, then ignore the rubbish mods that hardly anyone downloaded. And make it clear on the description page that there is a conflict (this is virtually never done, the modders wait until a user notices).

 

 

 

And best to make your mod compatible with everything wherever possible

 

What you don't seem to understand here, is a basic tenet of modding. It simply ISN'T possible to make your mod compatible with 'everything'. If you make ONE change in a cell, your mod is no longer compatible with any other mod that changes that cell.

 

 

Of course you can change something in a cell if it's not on top of the other thing! If I edit building 1 in sanctuary and you edit building 2, there is no conflict.

[showler]

 

You have to avoid conflicts with other decent mods that lots of people use, or lots of people will get very angry with you. If you can't avoid them all by moving your stuff, then ignore the rubbish mods that hardly anyone downloaded. And make it clear on the description page that there is a conflict (this is virtually never done, the modders wait until a user notices).

 

 

First of all, nobody is getting angry with modders except you. Everyone else makes a patch or asks for a patch to be made or just asks how to use the console to fix the problem. You're the only one on this forum who is too lazy to fix the problems you created by using conflicting mods without doing any conflict resolution. In the vast majority of cases these problems are easily solved.

 

Second of all, who the hell are you to designate mods as "decent" or "rubbish"? Nobody, that's who.

 

Even I'm giving up trying to explain things to you.

[HadToRegister]

 

Creating the database now would be next to impossible

 

 

/thread