Is Bethesda Trying to Kill Modding Community?

[xrayy]

 

what was bethesda's idea and plan before others (as always) solved their problems and offered the rollback option for frustrated gamers? why the severe ae patch and update fails and headache for consumers ?

The plan was to celebrate the anniversary of Skyrim by offering free content and a highly discounted CC pack to their consumers. A plan that benefited the VAST MAJORITY of those consumers.

 

At no point was their plan to hurt the modding community. It was an unavoidable side effect.

 

 

for sure, it was a good and nice idea and their goal was not to hurt. but after a miserable release of fo76 it is more than naive what happened with ae - if this was not just a planned financial coup.

the problem is they made a lot of money with it and i can not see how they act with a minimum of responsibility or to substantially support and thank modding community which helps during rough times and also in good times. at least i have no info about that.

knowing their responsibilities and with their experience of over a decade in gaming business i'm really speechless and surprised how careless they planned, tested and acted while making cash with ae day by day. outcome for consumers: some fishnets and cc content nobody asked for and a bunch of unsolved problems regarding backward compatibilty without solving and testing this in time before release.

the plan was ok and also making some money with it is ok. but the unprepared release and planning was naive but a financial success. reminds me of what happened during fo76 release. just unbelievable... learning curve since then: just plain flat but rich.

[showler]

You seem woefully uninformed about everything.

 

They gave the script extender team early access so that it could be updated pretty much at launch. Did you expect them to also do that with every single mod author who has a mod with a dll file?

 

Yes, there were some initial bugs that required more patching. That's pretty much inevitable. No matter how much QA you do, once you release it to the public it is being used on computers with far more configuration permutations than you could ever test for. Expecting Bethesda to manage to do something that no other game company is capable of doing is absurd.

[xrayy]

You seem woefully uninformed about everything.

 

They gave the script extender team early access so that it could be updated pretty much at launch. Did you expect them to also do that with every single mod author who has a mod with a dll file?

 

Yes, there were some initial bugs that required more patching. That's pretty much inevitable. No matter how much QA you do, once you release it to the public it is being used on computers with far more configuration permutations than you could ever test for. Expecting Bethesda to manage to do something that no other game company is capable of doing is absurd.

no, i was informed about that. thanks for asking before judging! i did not say that there was no cooperation. but we know the result. just a little naive as i said and obviously not properly tested. if my company would test their products like bethesda their games it would be a huge security risk. seems to have only minor consequences like the fo76 desaster. but we are not part of gaming industry. the cooperation was a step in the right direction. i assume their planning or testing was insufficient or they ran out of time before release. i don't know. do i have to care for that as a paying gamer ? it is on bethesda to deliver quality if they get money for their product.

[ScytheBearer]

Just a small point, but the 1.6+ release was simply a recompile of version 1.5x with a few fixes thrown in to correct errors introduced by the compile. Bethesda didn't recompile to break mods, but to upgrade the game and to get rid of some of the performance issues inherent in the prior version of the compiler.

The fact that mods which hook into the executable broke is undeniable, but that was a foreseeable side effect and by no means deliberate. So all this whining about Bethesda deliberately breaking mods and subverting the modding community is just so much bullcrap. It is nothing more than a tantrum by a few entitled players who think that they are the most important thing in the gaming universe, and they need to grow up and get over themselves.

[showler]

 

no, i was informed about that. thanks for asking before judging! i did not say that there was no cooperation. but we know the result. just a little naive as i said and obviously not properly tested. if my company would test their products like bethesda their games it would be a huge security risk. but we are not part of gaming industry. the cooperation was a step in the right direction. i assume their planning or testing was insufficient or they ran out of time. i don't know. do i have to care for that as a paying gamer ?

 

I'm sure Bethesda could test their games against every possible iteration of software and hardware in the universe, but I wouldn't like waiting until 2050 for Starfield to be released and paying $7000 for it.

 

Also, I assume if your company is in the security software business, they probably don't allow their customers to hack the program to do things it was never meant to do and then complain when things go wrong.

[xrayy]

Just a small point, but the 1.6+ release was simply a recompile of version 1.5x with a few fixes thrown in to correct errors introduced by the compile. Bethesda didn't recompile to break mods, but to upgrade the game and to get rid of some of the performance issues inherent in the prior version of the compiler.

 

The fact that mods which hook into the executable broke is undeniable, but that was a foreseeable side effect and by no means deliberate. So all this whining about Bethesda deliberately breaking mods and subverting the modding community is just so much bullcrap. It is nothing more than a tantrum by a few entitled players who think that they are the most important thing in the gaming universe, and they need to grow up and get over themselves.

i do not blame bethesda for this. i think this is more a "steam forced update" problem. bethesda is responsible to take this problem into account imho, to take care for customers and at least to put pressure on steam to allow the user to stop forced updates. i`m not aware they did or steam offers such an option officially. not allowing the gamer to decide to install an update or not is in my opinion the true scandal and problem. but i'm sure bethesda was always aware of that and the priority was to make money in a short time and not to care for the rights of a paying gamer. what i truly hate is if the customer is just handled as paying debile victim and not as a customer with rights and the ability to decide for himself what is the best for him and if he allows an update or not.

[showler]

i do not blame bethesda for this. i think this is more a "steam forced update" problem.

Progress! Now you disagree with the OPs assertion.

 

bethesda is responsible to take this problem into account imho, to take care for customers and at least to put pressure on steam to allow the user to stop forced updates. i`m not aware they did or steam offers such an option officially.

You don't know if it's possible, but you'll assume that it is and blame Bethesda for not doing it.

 

a customer with rights and the ability to decide for himself what is the best for him and if he allows an update or not.

The point you had to exercise that right was when you purchased the game. That was the point where you agreed to the terms of service and policies of Steam.

[ScytheBearer]

 

Just a small point, but the 1.6+ release was simply a recompile of version 1.5x with a few fixes thrown in to correct errors introduced by the compile. Bethesda didn't recompile to break mods, but to upgrade the game and to get rid of some of the performance issues inherent in the prior version of the compiler.

 

The fact that mods which hook into the executable broke is undeniable, but that was a foreseeable side effect and by no means deliberate. So all this whining about Bethesda deliberately breaking mods and subverting the modding community is just so much bullcrap. It is nothing more than a tantrum by a few entitled players who think that they are the most important thing in the gaming universe, and they need to grow up and get over themselves.

i do not blame bethesda for this. i think this is more a "steam forced update" problem. bethesda is responsible to take this problem into account imho, to take care for customers and at least to put pressure on steam to allow the user to stop forced updates. i`m not aware they did or steam offers such an option officially. not allowing the gamer to decide to install an update or not is in my opinion the true scandal and problem. but i'm sure bethesda was always aware of that and the priority was to make money in a short time and not to care for the rights of a paying gamer. what i truly hate is if the customer is just handled as paying debile victim and not as a customer with rights and the ability to decide for himself what is the best for him and if he allows an update or not.

 

 

Oh really? In your own words ...

 

 

You seem woefully uninformed about everything.

 

They gave the script extender team early access so that it could be updated pretty much at launch. Did you expect them to also do that with every single mod author who has a mod with a dll file?

 

Yes, there were some initial bugs that required more patching. That's pretty much inevitable. No matter how much QA you do, once you release it to the public it is being used on computers with far more configuration permutations than you could ever test for. Expecting Bethesda to manage to do something that no other game company is capable of doing is absurd.

no, i was informed about that. thanks for asking before judging! i did not say that there was no cooperation. but we know the result. just a little naive as i said and obviously not properly tested. if my company would test their products like bethesda their games it would be a huge security risk. seems to have only minor consequences like the fo76 desaster. but we are not part of gaming industry. the cooperation was a step in the right direction. i assume their planning or testing was insufficient or they ran out of time before release. i don't know. do i have to care for that as a paying gamer ? it is on bethesda to deliver quality if they get money for their product.

 

 

 

 

 

what was bethesda's idea and plan before others (as always) solved their problems and offered the rollback option for frustrated gamers? why the severe ae patch and update fails and headache for consumers ?

The plan was to celebrate the anniversary of Skyrim by offering free content and a highly discounted CC pack to their consumers. A plan that benefited the VAST MAJORITY of those consumers.

 

At no point was their plan to hurt the modding community. It was an unavoidable side effect.

 

 

for sure, it was a good and nice idea and their goal was not to hurt. but after a miserable release of fo76 it is more than naive what happened with ae - if this was not just a planned financial coup.

the problem is they made a lot of money with it and i can not see how they act with a minimum of responsibility or to substantially support and thank modding community which helps during rough times and also in good times. at least i have no info about that.

knowing their responsibilities and with their experience of over a decade in gaming business i'm really speechless and surprised how careless they planned, tested and acted while making cash with ae day by day. outcome for consumers: some fishnets and cc content nobody asked for and a bunch of unsolved problems regarding backward compatibilty without solving and testing this in time before release.

the plan was ok and also making some money with it is ok. but the unprepared release and planning was naive but a financial success. reminds me of what happened during fo76 release. just unbelievable... learning curve since then: just plain flat but rich.

 

And that is just from the two prior posts. So, which am I to believe? Your statement "I do not blame Bethesda for this", or the rest of the blame fixing which preceded that statement?

[StormWolf01]

I was thinking about this at work today.

Since most of us are also there in the mod author forums....

why not start up a thread about what we DO know about the updates, what they are doing to break mods, suggestions that can be provided to players to avoid getting hit by the problems, and then ask modders to consider throwing that advice onto their mod pages.

Or once we have good, valid info, articles could be written up that we could link to in our sigs.

At least until things settle down?

 

Oh. But in case anybody doesn't know. When Fallout4 caused a problem like this, people tried sharing the older version Vanilla files, that got changed in the update. At least back in 2019, that was still a big NO NO for the nexus forums.

[showler]

There isn't much to share. Any alteration of the EXE file requires that mods which use a memory injection method be adjusted to match that new file.

 

Mods that don't use that method are rarely affected by a bug patch.

 

The only way to avoid being affected if you use those mods is to prevent your game from updating or use the unofficial downgrade patcher which uses a binary patching system to rewrite your EXE into an older version. Which avoids the problem of distributing game files.