Why we can't use Patreon, and talking about donations and doing more to support mod authors

[darkpancakerider]

Now, I've been around the nexus for a relatively short while (Aug 2013 more or less), but it seems like the Nexus is the biggest threat to Bethesda's ability to do anything mod-related. They released an IP, sure, but then get all rosy cheeked whenever they hear the Nexus wants to support its modders more? Stinks of lawyerism. I believe the current "political" climate between us is going to snap whenever they release F4, especially if they want to introduce paid-modding. I'm fine with supporting devs, but not when they are very obviously trying to run a game on the community (I say Devs, I probably mean Zeni, and pardon the pun). I'm not entirely informed on the issue, but I would not be surprised to see more lawyering from Beth over this. Again, this can go either way, but I see this relationship as still tenuous. If the biggest site for Bethesda's own IP ISN'T Beth's own site... well we all see how EA treats microtransactions.

[void101010]

In response to post #30075030.

darkpancakerider wrote: Now, I've been around the nexus for a relatively short while (Aug 2013 more or less), but it seems like the Nexus is the biggest threat to Bethesda's ability to do anything mod-related. They released an IP, sure, but then get all rosy cheeked whenever they hear the Nexus wants to support its modders more? Stinks of lawyerism. I believe the current "political" climate between us is going to snap whenever they release F4, especially if they want to introduce paid-modding. I'm fine with supporting devs, but not when they are very obviously trying to run a game on the community (I say Devs, I probably mean Zeni, and pardon the pun). I'm not entirely informed on the issue, but I would not be surprised to see more lawyering from Beth over this. Again, this can go either way, but I see this relationship as still tenuous. If the biggest site for Bethesda's own IP ISN'T Beth's own site... well we all see how EA treats microtransactions.

You forget that the reason paid mods were considered at all was due to sites like nexus spreading the word and making a big community so saying threat is kind of hard. Also I hardly doubt they can openly sue Nexus unless they want all its users (a really big chunk of players) to boycott games/mods they make/endorse.

[goatofdeath]

In response to post #29456319. #30074860 is also a reply to the same post.

goatofdeath wrote:

I guess I'm not quite understanding why Bethesda is the gating factor here. If they don't want it on their properties, that's fine. Seems like a simple if (Bethesda) {Don't show Patreon of Flattr buttons} would do the job.

 

Mods for more supportive companies could then have donations allowed through Patreon or Flattr. Assuming it does ok, that would incentivize either Bethesda to get their s*** together to support modder contributions themselves, or for them to officially bless Patreon and Flattr on the nexus in support of the modding community.

 

Just because at the moment Bethesda doesn't like it, I'm not quite seeing why the option should be taken away from the rest of the modding community that might not even be interested in modding Bethesda games.

darkpancakerider wrote: The implication is that Bethesda wants total control over where the money goes, but I'm not entirely sur-

". Such a system would effectively allow them to cut out Valve as the middleman, accommodate an interesting push in to console modding, and either ensure they can maximise their profit as much as possible, or allow Valve's original cut to go to the mod authors"

Oh wait, that's exactly what is being discussed.

"Just because at the moment Bethesda doesn't like it, I'm not quite seeing why the option should be taken away from the rest of the modding community that might not even be interested in modding Bethesda games."

Read: "Bethesda's lawyers are trigger happy as f'"

Seriously, please read the OP first, I understand what you're trying to get at, but you're quite a few points behind it, frankly.

I did read the first post. And the idea that Bethesda can dictate what is done with all modding on the nexus is just as nonsensical now as when I first read it.

If it's not implemented for Bethesda properties, then why should their lawyers even take an interest? The fact that Bethesda doesn't want Patreon or Flattr should have no relevance to someone wanting to mod The Witcher 3 or some other game not done by Bethesda.

Unless Bethesda somehow financially supports the nexus in some way I'm not aware.

[andrew28475]

I am happy to donate, but how much theirs no suggested amount, also not all the mods work, so I can`t respectively donate.

I am not that good at arrange mods yet so that might be me.

[wowtrancer]

My thought? We all knew that Beth has the rights to all the stuff made with their creation kits, if someone didn't realize that they were just fooling themselves. Furthermore we don't support the mods themselves, we support the mod makers. Big difference, I don't see why the mod makers can't make their own Patreon page and simply give it a small little shout out at the bottom of their descriptions and nothing more. Or even the very top, as long as it's a small thing. Something like "Like my work? Become my patron today to help let me spend more time on things I love, like this mod!" followed by the link to their page. Simple, quick, and tiny. If you make sure that everyone knows that it has to be a small message, including the link, you won't run the risk of people trying to guilt anyone.

 

I've seen flash game developers use Paetreon, artists use it, all sorts of people use it and it really does help as their work goes from a LABOR of love to just something they love as getting paid on a regular basis, even if just a small amount, helps keep people motivated to do make mods, textures, models, improve upon all sorts of things, and just do the things they love to do. If it helps them quit their job or get a part time and still live to where they're comfortable then it's a huge win.

 

The fact that mod developers can't give themselves a little shout out with their paypal donation or their own Paetreon or something just seems.. well, frankly, a very bad decision. Just have users report descriptions with "abusive" donation links and make it so that it has to be simple and quickly-read message or shout out sort of thing, maybe even give an example for them to follow.

 

Either way, it's just bad to have a tiny little donation button that no one ever sees and to not let the creator give themselves a little shout out or "pimp themselves out" a little bit to help support what they love. This stuff takes time, after all, quite a bit of it, and it just seems wrong that the Nexus profits off of these people while they themselves aren't even allowed to bring the fact they take donations or patrons to the notice of the community.

 

Finally, as to the topic of messy descriptions, perhaps instituting a description template, say, for example, with that donation shout out first, then the standard description, then w/e else after that, would help. Doing such a thing, actually, I'm positive would help significantly. Giving some structure instead of just saying "Oh this looks bad," or "You can't do this" would go a long ways in helping everyone out.

Edited November 20, 2015 by wowtrancer

[veepirate]

The only idea I had was a percentage system.

 

By that I mean that you pay the nexus a certain amount, either monthly or one shot and at the end of the month the money is split between the mods you have downloaded and endorsed, perhaps also giving a cut to Bethesda.

 

This would take a lot of the pressure people when deciding how much to give.

[meyer10101]

In response to post #29456319. #30074860, #30189735 are all replies on the same post.

goatofdeath wrote:

I guess I'm not quite understanding why Bethesda is the gating factor here. If they don't want it on their properties, that's fine. Seems like a simple if (Bethesda) {Don't show Patreon of Flattr buttons} would do the job.

 

Mods for more supportive companies could then have donations allowed through Patreon or Flattr. Assuming it does ok, that would incentivize either Bethesda to get their s*** together to support modder contributions themselves, or for them to officially bless Patreon and Flattr on the nexus in support of the modding community.

 

Just because at the moment Bethesda doesn't like it, I'm not quite seeing why the option should be taken away from the rest of the modding community that might not even be interested in modding Bethesda games.

darkpancakerider wrote: The implication is that Bethesda wants total control over where the money goes, but I'm not entirely sur-

". Such a system would effectively allow them to cut out Valve as the middleman, accommodate an interesting push in to console modding, and either ensure they can maximise their profit as much as possible, or allow Valve's original cut to go to the mod authors"

Oh wait, that's exactly what is being discussed.

"Just because at the moment Bethesda doesn't like it, I'm not quite seeing why the option should be taken away from the rest of the modding community that might not even be interested in modding Bethesda games."

Read: "Bethesda's lawyers are trigger happy as f'"

Seriously, please read the OP first, I understand what you're trying to get at, but you're quite a few points behind it, frankly.

goatofdeath wrote: I did read the first post. And the idea that Bethesda can dictate what is done with all modding on the nexus is just as nonsensical now as when I first read it.

If it's not implemented for Bethesda properties, then why should their lawyers even take an interest? The fact that Bethesda doesn't want Patreon or Flattr should have no relevance to someone wanting to mod The Witcher 3 or some other game not done by Bethesda.

Unless Bethesda somehow financially supports the nexus in some way I'm not aware.

Because Bethesda owns all the stuff modders are playing with (related to their own games of course), so they get to say what goes and what doesn't about their own stuff. That's why. That's like asking why you can't spraypaint a public bench. It's owned by the local government and sure, they let everyone use it, but ONLY within the rules and limits they've set, no more. Edited November 28, 2015 by meyer10101

[WursWaldo]

Have a Paetron link on the member's profile page. It wouldn't be associated with any mods or something Bethesda lays claim to. Downloaders would only see it if they went to the modder's membership page and it wouldn't be solicitation or anything else Bethesda could complain about. Unless Bethesda is now dictating to Dark0ne what can and cannot be linked on his site there wouldn't be any problems with it. Downloaders wouldn't see glittery animated gifs about modders getting compensated on mod pages, Dark0ne would be off the hook and Bethesda wouldn't have a legitimate complaint. 'Their' files would still be public and not behind a paywall or anything else, real or imagined.

[jastic]

Out of interest what is a reasonable value to donate?

 

Granted it depends on the mod.

 

I did click on one site on nexus, the pop up indicated it wanted payment in dollars, it had the $ sign. Giving exchange rate fluctuations and charges for transferring currencies I was a little uneasy as to what to give.

 

Regards Jim

[adsgsdfgh]

I just don't get it. In the 10+ years that I've been modding everything from cellphones to Pokémon games, I've always known it was a hobby and that I am actually nowhere close to being an actual software developer just because I can take something that has already been created and change it. And whatever large amount of time I put into any of it was my choice and mine alone, no one hired me, I was not visited by a fairy in the middle of the night who told me it was my mission to save I world, I CHOSE to do whatever it was I was doing. Why does it seem like so many members of the Skyrim modding scene are so self entitled and big headed about their talents at using a Creation Kit that's been conveniently provided by the gaming company that conveniently accepts the modding scene? Seriously, Skyrim has to be one of the easiest to mod games I've ever come across and yet active members of it's modding community act like they're five star game developers who deserve and require people's full support, gratitude and payment at all times. It's like night and day compared to other modding scenes that I have been a part of where people struggle and share and create user made tools because it's not accepted or endorsed by the company in question. Where people have to hex edit to see results and others break open the game with reverse engineering and ASM. Those communities are the friendliest, most willing to share, most willing to help and most grounded of all and the best part is that the participants realise that they are participating out of choice, out of a love for it, out of a willingness to create a better experience for everyone. Here, mod authors seem to be automatically defensive any time you mention any sort of issue or have queries, people seem shut off and closed up around here and it's not so much a 'community' as it is a big city filled with rude, busy people all trying to get ahead of each other and good friends are hard to come by.

 

I'm all for donations. If people donate, that's awesome, bonus. If they don't and you can't handle that, then you'd better get out of the modding scene because modding for donations is like busking on the street corner. You'll never make a living from it and if you're serious about it, you try to get a band together and start playing bigger shows and becoming more professional ie. study programming and become a game developer so that you can make money doing something you love without expecting this fast paced busy world to stop and notice you and drop some change into your hat. The fact that this conversation is even still going on is ridiculous and some people need to get off their high horses and realise that they're not the greatest thing in the world because they figured out how to use the Creation Kit or add a couple of textures. If they're really motivated, they'll do something about it. If they really think they can take the easy way out in life and make a living from modifying someone else's hard work, let them get scraps and let them learn how the real world works.