Those of you who love the game...

[Boombro]

 

Well by dialogue I meant the character actually talking and having a scene with the other character. Not exactly the choices them self.

Personally, I wish for the cinematic dialogue to stay. I wanna look at people.

[Holst]

...

 

I just want RPG's to stay RPG's. Not turn into half baked versions of what they used to be. Sorry, but shooting things and having my stories end with one big nuclear explosion doesn't get my rocks off as much as other people do.

 

 

I've read this comment a lot lately, and to think of it I've been reading it since the release of Oblivion. Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand the meaning of it. To address two points mostly criticized the last two weeks.

 

Storyline:

The average gamer at this moment is in his thirties. I'm 34 and for me this means that I've read around a thousand novels, watched at least three times as many movies and played more than a hundred games. By now I believe to have seen almost every plot possible and it's quite hard to surprise me anymore, so actually in a game I tend to neglect the stories because almost all of them consist out of flat stereotype characters in a modern Hollywood movie script. If it's good the better, but otherwise I won't judge the game based on its story.

 

Dialoguewheel:

You're left with four basic replies, does this limit you? For me it doesn't.

Sure in Mass Effect you had tons of options, but as someone else wrote 'in the end you just clicked every line'. I prefer this system because you don't end up listening to hours of information you can't actually use ingame. Secondly, I've always found it easier to immerse in my character in Beth games rather than in ex ME because although you had a lot of dialogue options on a regular basis you ended up with choices on more idiotic than the othter.

 

Last thing about F4 not being a rpg. I've not yet completed the main quest and have been playing almost 50 hours since release (long time any game got me hooked up so much). The most attractive thing about tes games or f3 and f4 is just the fact that Beth seems to realize that the best stories are those written in the mind of the players. All considered I've been pretty much been doing what I've done since Morrowind: wander around, collect items, get some skills and kill the nasty things without anyone constant telling me where to go or what I should be doing. I was waiting for a new playground and for me Beth delivered just that.

 

 

No native speaker, so sorry for my English.

[Warmaker01]

Well, I would love this game, IF I had a machine to play it on. I have the pipboy edition, got it on the 10th, but am still waiting to get a comp that can run it.

Man, I was hunting for a Pip Boy Edition big time but they were either all out or sold by others for insane prices.

 

Anyways a small update for me.

http://i.imgur.com/8ej5xt2.png

I do not put that kind of time into a game if it isn't worth it. 235 hours put in for a game that came out 16 days ago is a lot of time. I appreciate Bethesda giving me their best game world they've yet put together and letting me have the freedom to play with a dynamic game world. I appreciate not being led by the nose of "You must go this way to enjoy the game, follow the narrative, or else."

 

The best part?

 

FO4's GECK isn't out yet and modders have yet to do their magic. The vanilla game stands well on its own. With matured mods after the GECK is out, it will be even better. But the modders will need time.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Warmaker01

[Boombro]

It still the ck engine, so modding it would be pretty much the same, or even simpler/easier.

[tejano2828]

Not only DO I love this game.

 

I am loving the possibilities that GECK bring with it and the future modding community.

 

patiently awaits the top 100 mods list

[Pthalo]

 

Dialoguewheel:

You're left with four basic replies, does this limit you? For me it doesn't.

Sure in Mass Effect you had tons of options, but as someone else wrote 'in the end you just clicked every line'. I prefer this system because you don't end up listening to hours of information you can't actually use ingame. Secondly, I've always found it easier to immerse in my character in Beth games rather than in ex ME because although you had a lot of dialogue options on a regular basis you ended up with choices on more idiotic than the othter.

 

Last thing about F4 not being a rpg. I've not yet completed the main quest and have been playing almost 50 hours since release (long time any game got me hooked up so much). The most attractive thing about tes games or f3 and f4 is just the fact that Beth seems to realize that the best stories are those written in the mind of the players. All considered I've been pretty much been doing what I've done since Morrowind: wander around, collect items, get some skills and kill the nasty things without anyone constant telling me where to go or what I should be doing. I was waiting for a new playground and for me Beth delivered just that.

 

 

This.

 

I have been playing Bethesda games since Oblivion. So when I got FO4, I went in knowing that I would enjoy exploring the open world best - it wouldn't be the conversations with NPC's that I found most engaging. Bethesda's best storytelling is always through the environment itself:

It's those wordless moments where I uncover dead bodies in a wrecked plane crash, stark triumph of mankind shattered across nature. See the kind of people who were on it. The classy clothes laying in ruins. Some were vault-tec employees - trying to get out of Boston, perhaps? What did they know that I didn't? The flight deck recorder with the pilot's last moments. Feeling connected to these individuals who died over 200 years ago like it was yesterday, because for me, it was. Seeing how little all that technological progress means now, when the flight deck is little more than some gun-toting drug-huffer's dirty little nest.

 

It was always the small stories left for me to reconstruct that stuck with me hardest.

 

When it comes to actual NPC dialogue, perhaps I set the bar low. After playing D&D and dealing with NPC's run entirely by other human beings, I'm just used to forgiving computer companions.

 

Overall, I feel like less dialogue options in text has been traded out for my character to be voiced and actually reply for him/herself. I have less I can say, but what I do has become many times more engaging. It feels like actual conversation now.

In FO3, I was often 'filling in the blanks' - almost constantly. Dialogue options not listed. There was so much unsaid between my Lone Wanderer and his father when they finally met. The entire run between the Vault I rescued him from and Project Purity was not one of us catching up, him getting to understand just what I've gone through to find him, none of that. It was me shouting "DAD NO" at my monitor forty times as he ran and engaged in fisticuffs with every damn 'guai in a five mile radius like a mindless idiot. Me, with my hard-earned armour, scarred head, scavenged guns - and him, still in his vault 101 jammies like he doesn't realize the hell he's in. I am still filling in the blanks for the Sole Survivor, just in different ways. I wouldn't mind the occasional dialogue option that's driven by intelligence or perception, rather than charisma alone - I feel like a little splash more interplay between character stats and how you handle things socially would have covered most bases people feel are missing.

 

While Mass Effect's dialogue wheel was more robust, with six points rather than four - it was basically three buttons that mined for intel, and then 'be captain america' 'be moderate' or 'be rorschach'. I can't tell you how many hours I wasted re-loading my save files and running through all those dang intel options over and over, just so I could see each of the morality-impacting options before picking one. I'm very happy that FO4 at least does not encourage me to waste nearly so much time double-checking my dialogue. You can save mid-dialogue, or even walk away and talk to others around you in making an informed choice.

Caveat: I do use a mod that displays more precisely what I am going to say. But I still found my immersion-breaking time-wasting greatly reduced even before installing that.

 

So those are my feelings on the social interaction side of FO4. I think disappointment/enjoyment greatly stems from what expectations you have going in - and Bethesda is very good at generating hype that tempts one to raise their expectations way beyond what a game can be capable of while still catering to each paying individual's wants. For me, realistic and dynamic npc interaction and the main quest has never been why I get into a Beth game.

 

It's the environment, those little stories we build in exploring it, and the modding. Hoboy do I love mods.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Pthalo

[Crimsonhawk87]

 

It an RPG, and before you rage and say you are stuck in a role of a good two shoes, let me enlighten you with my wisdom about what an RPG is.

 

RPG is a very wide term and have expanded in the last years. I would hardly call it a shooter since has ways to play without killing anyone (with your hands anyways.) and has melee and unarmed, and has quests, crafting and quests and those can earn you exp to level and unlock perks. Older fo and tes players won't even call it that since for them RPG=Role playing game and they have been drunk on past titles all those past years and it that what an RPG to them. And that is where those guys are wrong with the term.

 

You may say but it doesn't offer me freedom to do what I want, so it not so it not an RPG. I will say that many others RPG hardly even do, Pokemon is an RPG, and you can't join the bad guys. Same goes for persona, FF, dragon quest, monster hunter, fire emblem, the witcher, borderland, mad max, star wars and many more other games. Think about it, how many games offer the same RP freedom value other than TES and FO games? Hardly any other, expect dragon dogma ( can't wait for pc version.) and fo4 still let me ignore the main quest and let me wonder around mini nuking deathclaws without blocking 90% of the game areas.

 

So in short, it hardly An RP game, but it is an surly RPG game.

 

Well, I would love this game, IF I had a machine to play it on. I have the pipboy edition, got it on the 10th, but am still waiting to get a comp that can run it.

So sad.

 

I'm gonna just say this is a FPARPG (First Person Action Role Playing Game) and call it a day.....somebody smarter than me need to clean up that name though...... :laugh:

[Boombro]

There is something called an RPG shooter.

Everyone should be happy now.

[DesertEvil09]

 

 

Storyline:

The average gamer at this moment is in his thirties. I'm 34 and for me this means that I've read around a thousand novels, watched at least three times as many movies and played more than a hundred games. By now I believe to have seen almost every plot possible and it's quite hard to surprise me anymore, so actually in a game I tend to neglect the stories because almost all of them consist out of flat stereotype characters in a modern Hollywood movie script. If it's good the better, but otherwise I won't judge the game based on its story.

So to accept mediocrity and have lower expectations as you get older is the key to enjoying a game? Sounds miserable, I'd rather hold gaming to a standard to strive for in its future than to just accept changes for the worse creatively for the sake of easier digestion and mass enjoyment.

Dialoguewheel:

You're left with four basic replies, does this limit you? For me it doesn't.

Sure in Mass Effect you had tons of options, but as someone else wrote 'in the end you just clicked every line'. I prefer this system because you don't end up listening to hours of information you can't actually use ingame. Secondly, I've always found it easier to immerse in my character in Beth games rather than in ex ME because although you had a lot of dialogue options on a regular basis you ended up with choices on more idiotic than the othter.

It does. I'm not one of those people who use Mass Effect as an example, because frankly it's quite poor. Not many games have achieved voice protagonist RPG dialogue systems well enough. The fact Fallout 4's dialogue system progresses and doesn't come back to the same options as before is perfectly fine, as long as you have the choice you just made branch off into a tangent that changes the dynamic of the conversation. Instead it doesn't it creates a different reaction to each 4 of the individual lines, and then progresses forward all the same way if you get what I mean. So basically, all four options don't branch off anywhere into a new string of the conversation, it just all comes back to the same conclusion.

 

Unless the conversation ends in a 2 choice option, usually being Kill/Spare, I can safely say with as much time as I've spent with the game, that most of the quests all round out to the same conclusion. It's the illusion of choice, and it's even more limited than ever, therefore making it more painfully obvious. As I've said before, no skill checks, no SPECIAL checks, no perk related checks. It's just Charisma. We've gone from unique dialogue checks based on your characters history of skills and their personality and even dialogue uniquely tied to the players intelligence, to just: Is my character charming enough to pass this dice roll check.

 

I agree, it's alot more easier to immerse yourself into a character for Bethesda games, why? Because your character is your own, and it's what you make of him/her. Mass Effect is alot like the Witcher, except the Witcher doesn't pretend at all that your making you're own character. The Witcher is the stories of Geralt of Rivia, and Mass Effect is the story of Commander Shepard. Mass Effect just likes to pretend that commander shepard is YOU, and YOU make him/her the person they'll ultimately end up being. When really the dynamic is whether or not Commander Shepard is evil or good, other than that Commander Shepard is the most blanket, cardboard character setpiece for you to project whatever character you can onto him/her. It doesn't feel authentic in its roleplay at all.

 

One last thing to note is, I don't view Mass Effects dialogue to be in any sort of gold standard for voiced dialogue systems. But its the well people go to because that pool of games that do this is so small. One thing Mass Effect does better than Fallout 4 is, even though as you said it contains dialogue that's really of no tangible game use to you, (and this is where I'll disagree), is that kind of dialogue helps build the lore. It's expository, world building dialogue, and you don't have to listen to it at all, it's mostly under the investigative options, plain and simple to see. Fallout 4 barely does this, and when it decides to exposit something to my character, I've already learnt about this in the world. Like asking what a feral ghoul is or what a synth is, after I've already killed about 20 Synths.

 

I don't get to ask the questions I'd like to know about to immerse myself in the world through dialogue, I'm relied only upon the world I inhabit to give me that information. When really, it should be both. Why I never got to ask the questions about why does the institute abduct people and replace them with synths for example.

 

Sorry for the wall of text.

[DimosZargarda]

Dude now im scared, I dont have the game but im getting it today. I got Fallout 3 when it first came out, and it became the best game I ever played, been playing it 7 weeks straight on PS3, then I found out about Nexus and that u can mod it, got it for PC and played it for another year, and ever since then, been waiting for Fallout 4.... so stop scaring me saying its bad XD