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Big changes for the Nexus Mod Manager and the introduction of Tannin42, our new head of NMM development


Dark0ne

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In response to post #43224730. #43229715, #43231195 are all replies on the same post.


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hahaha Fgambler, I'm with tears in his eyes :D :D
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In response to post #43228135. #43228440, #43228710, #43228800, #43229750, #43229950, #43230240, #43231080 are all replies on the same post.


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@tamreil42

Honestly? You've got the skillset to fix most of what's bugging people with NMM. Improving the reliability of large file installs would get you my vote by itself. Having the option to use an MO-style visualized install if you wanted/needed/could use it would just be icing on the cake.

That being said, I'd recommend (both for mo's case and NMM if it gets such an option) some way of manually going through the resulting 'game directory' after you've installed your mods, so you can, if needed, find and replace the odd burp.

MO looks like an excellent peice of software, even though I couldn't use it because the CK didn't like it for some odd reason (I'll blame the CK here)
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Ah, personally I consider it as a good news that the current NMM is not being developed now (besides some maintenance updates like bug fixes). I have seen the code on GitHub and I found it quite fugly. Heh, it's far from a flexible code and contains many code duplications. Also, there are some fragments that shouldn't be available in a release because they're intended to be used in development cycles. However, I see such code fragments in release build...

 

I am aware that NMM started as a hobby project, but since there is a development team, I seriously hope that the design of the new software is being considered as an important step and not "just something".

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In response to post #43222300. #43226010 is also a reply to the same post.


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You're supposed to start from scratch when using MO though. So how come it messed up your mods? I don't see how it possible can do that tbh.
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In response to post #43213170. #43213650, #43214685, #43224605 are all replies on the same post.


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I do not deny, my first encounter with MO was bad, I just had this feeling that I can not anything to install, now already to me unnecessary, does not install mods, only their own, to test the game, so enough for me NMM, otherwise I am a man, who reluctantly changed, something that is already good for me, that is, NMM :) :)
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In response to post #43213170. #43213650, #43214685, #43224605, #43231310 are all replies on the same post.


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Interestingly, my first encounter with NMM were that: 1. I downloaded a mod,, 2 installed, I had no idea about it, but as a '' green '' worked the first time, the application suggests itself, the design of NMM is perfect even for beginners and New urzytkowników, Modding communities, Nexus :)
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I'm just hype, because I've seen through his Github that Tannin is a borderline savant on this kind of stuff.

If I can achieve the same complexity of control and have multiple builds on the fly like MO does, NMM can only benefit as far as I am concerned.

If there is a 'simple mode' that streamlines the mod process and UI for 'regular' users then the fact that MO's brilliant Virtual Folder design keeps Data uncluttered can only benefit the confused newbie as their mistakes don't require deleting parts of their install folder and verifying through Steam again.

 

I see nothing but benefit. NMM has always tried to keep itself user-friendly and I am confident this team-up will lead to greatness.

Edited by RJ the Shadow
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  On 10/14/2016 at 9:03 AM, Tannin42 said:

 

In response to post #43231020.

 

 

 

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Ok, can you explain what's so bad about the *link approach?

 

 

Even if we assume that the problems that now exist with half-install and half-removing of mods leaving stray files in the data directory are caused by old and un-optimized code, there are still enough reasons that turn such a system into a nightmare for the advanced users and are now forcing them to use 0.56.1 as the last version of NMM that is actually usable. And those reasons have nothing to do with the quality of the software itself but the problems the concept of linked virtual install creates. Having the files in one place is logical and easy to work with (like MO and the old NMM), having ghosts of files in more places makes the experience quite limiting, confusing and annoying.

 

1. Backups - it is not possible to make an usable backup independently of the manager. What do you copy - the files in the data folder or the files in the VirtualInstall? Or both? Whatever you do there is no meaningful way to use such a backup. You are forced to make a copy of the two as this is the only way to use it and that means - 2 times longer do make/apply the backup, 2 times more space for the backup, 2 directories to backup instead of one and most importantly - twice the size of the game folder after the backup is used. This is a huge deal as most players put those games on small SSD drives. If you have 50GB of mods and want to use a backup then your game will now consume a total of 100GB. And even if the drive space is not a big problem, having several games inflated like that is not really acceptable.

Because yes - when you install a mod and create links for all the files then you are not using twice the space - you have one and same file with two different addresses. So 1k file in data = 1k file in VI = 1k total. But when you copy the files and put them somewhere else the bond will break and you will end up with two independent "real" files. And yes - you need to make and use a backup of both data and VI folders. If you only use the data folder the game will work but the mod manager will become useless. If you only use a backup of the VI then there will be no mods in the game... So you are forced to endure the double backup and inflated drive space usage.

 

2. Freedom, predictability and flexibility (and way less chaos) - it is surprisingly easy to break the link and end up with two different files. This limits your possibility to reuse self-modified mod assets on a new install, create confusion when you edit a file that you don't immediately realize is not tied to it's counterpart anymore, forcing you to constantly think about which files are tied and which not and which copy you are editing. The "schizophrenic" state an install like this exists in is extremely confusing and adds way more complications than it is worth.

 

3. Learning curve. It is been mentioned many time on the forums that the learning curve for NMM 0.6* is steeper than MO. And it is true. Introducing this to the "basic" variation of the software seems strange.

 

4. For what? People would probably accept all this complications and problems if the would see the benefit such a system brings. However there is none. The predictability, usability and stability of the "one file" install logic is sacrificed for what... For profiles? Let's be honest, everybody who wanted profiles was already using MO. Now if you want to create the basic modding tool and with options to add modules and upgrade, are there Profiles in that very basic tool? There is no "greater good" here. It is complication for the sake of the complication. None of the potential benefits of the virtualization are realized by the linked virtual install, only the negatives.

 

I would suggest starting a new thread about this and letting all people that still use the old NMM versions tell their reasons. Because I'm pretty sure none of them would be using this new manager if uses the same logic that made them stay away from the new versions anyway. I understand from the point of view of the MO crowd the phrase "advanced NMM users" is an oxymoron, but in reality there are advanced users who have experience in both pre- and after- 0.6 NMM.

Edited by prinyo
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