We have a name! And a Q&A session with Tannin regarding the new mod manager.

[Tannin42]

In response to post #50015817.

Wadu436 wrote: Will Vortex have different profiles and will you be able to easily reorder mods (like on the left lane of MO)?

Profiles: yes
reorder mods: yes with a but: The mechanism how you reorder mods is different from MO. I believe it's more powerful and easier to use in the long run but it's different so there will be an adjustment period for users. I'm excited to see if people will love it or hate it. ;)

[Tannin42]

In response to post #50017357. #50023137, #50023837 are all replies on the same post.

sopmac45 wrote: Hi Tannin42 ... I started to play Skyrim SE like 4 months ago so I've never used MO and I am just familiar with NMM, however, I am practically a rookie to mods ( but I am not a teenager though .. lol .. ) and my question are :
1 - Will Vortex clean up files as SSEDIT does ?
2 - Will I have to use LOOT or Vortex will do the sorting ?
3 - Assuming that I want to restart the whole game again, will Vortex allow me to just deactivate/delete all the mods and most important, must I delete all Skyrim data/files and reinstall it again as I am doing now ?
If I do not make any sense, just please bear with me because I am new to mods as I said but it is a pain in the butt to go nuke and restart the whole thing again .. will be there a more practical/fast solution to this ?
Regarding the name, I did not vote for Vortex but I am ok with that name. It will be impossible to please the world. Simplicity and reliability of this new program is what it count IMHO.
Thanks so much.

Pabulum wrote: I'm not Tannin but at least there's a response.

1 - Will Vortex clean up files as SSEDIT does ?
2 - Will I have to use LOOT or Vortex will do the sorting ?

I hope not! xEdit doesn't belong within a mod manager. Same with LOOT. It makes stuff harder to keep updated.

3 - Assuming that I want to restart the whole game again, will Vortex allow me to just deactivate/delete all the mods and most important, must I delete all Skyrim data/files and reinstall it again as I am doing now ?

That won't be until the VFS-related crap is released.

TerminusVitae wrote: @Pabulum not Tannin either, but I'd dispute your last assertion; the "purge" feature that the Q&A describes would *effectively* uninstall all mods without un/re-installing the whole game, much like trying to run a game outside of Mod Organizer.

For those who don't know, when running a game with MO, the VFS makes it seem to the game as if the files are there when they aren't, (Virtual File System; think of it like a Virtual Reality headset that MO puts on the game's head, so the game can see and interact with files that aren't technically there.) But when not running the game through MO, the folders are clean of all those files, and the game is essentially entirely unmodded. No mod files visible, thus no mods installed.

Ostensibly, the purge feature would allow instant access to the exact same thing even in a symbolic link set-up, instantly and easily removing the file system links that made the files visible and the game modded at all. (For symbolic links, imagine that instead of making the game wear a headset, you just tie a bunch of strings to it's fingers, so it can touch stuff that's not usually in reach. The purge button feature would cut all the strings, until you pressed a different button to re-tie them.) You'd theoretically almost never have to "empty out the whole game folder and reinstall" again, as any files that are mod related could be automatically and precisely removed without ever touching or otherwise damaging the original game files (or, for that matter, the mod files at the other end of the strings), as opposed to the usual "wiping everything to make sure nothing got missed".

Additionally, the intent from day one to support a wide range of games means that unlike NMM or even MO, the manager would theoretically be able to handle a wider range of folders within the game's files than usual, as it'd have to... not all games are as cleanly organized as Bethesda's "stuff it all in .\ Data" mentality. :P This would still help Beth games though, because by being able to handle (for example) the main Skyrim folder (as opposed to only the Skyrim\ Data folder) even stuff like ENB presets and SKSE loaders can be handled (and for ENBs, even easily switched between) by the manager and thus purged by it if needed, even if only needed temporarily.

1) No, we don't integrate xedit and for now we have no plan to do so. Vortex will be extensible through extensions so if someone with development experince comes along they could add such a feature
2) Vortex integrates loot and userlist management from inside the gui so you don't have to run loot manually. This can of course be disabled for users who don't like convenience. ;)
3) Sure. You could either simply create a new, empty, profile and switch to that or use the purge option.
Both should lead to a clean data directory (at least clean of the files Vortex added, of course we don't remove anything added through other means like steam workshop).

[TerminusVitae]

In response to post #50007057. #50020977, #50024497 are all replies on the same post.

Skagens wrote:

I think I'll wait until a bit more development has gone into Vortex before I use it. I prefer MO over NMM in almost every aspect, and if Vortex won't leave my data folder completely clean like MO, then I won't use it. If you are planning for this to become an option though, then I will simply bide my time. Stuff like UI or the manager being user friendly isn't as much a priority. It is very important for me (and many others I believe) that the mods I install isn't installed in the data folder like NMM tends to do.

TehPikachuHat wrote: Seconded. This is basically the reason I started using MO over FOMM or just plain old manual installation.

TwoArmedMan15 wrote: Thirded. Sounds like I'll need to look into using MO2 (despite it's current buggy state)... I have been delaying "heavily" modding Skyrim SE and Fallout 4 until, I had hoped, the new NMM would be released with MO-like file virtualization. With the news that the new NMM (Vortex) will not have uvfs virtualization, I'm totally turned off from using the new NMM. Having a clean data folder and being able to quickly change the virtual install order is very important to me.

Plus, I had some bad experiences with the old NMM failing to remove symbolic links, which caused me far more problems than MO's uvfs ever did.

I feel much the same way as you guys, but perhaps not quite so vehemently; at least not about Vortex, that is... :P Keep in mind that this is comin from a guy who hasn't touched NMM since i first learned of MO, way back before Fallout 4 was even suspected to ever exist... :P nor do i wish to suffer NMM ever again. :P But I don't feel the symbolic link route is necessarily as much of a death nell as it was in NMM, not if Vortex does it better/properly.

The key, IMO, would be a mixture of MO's and NMM's approach to file priority; one would organize the mod file load order exactly as one would in MO, mod separation/overwrite, the whole shebang; from that organized setup, a list is formed (dare i say, a manifest) of what files get deployed, what gets overwritten with what, beforehand, etc, blah. Luckily, (and of major benefit to dev sanity,) you'd only need a manifest of the current moment, not a detailed log of every moment since beginning the install... :P In all honesty, a simple list of file paths would suffice, but I bet there'd be benefit to adding a few more features. :) From that list of files to be loaded, symbolic links are made from .\ Data\___ to the relevant files in the Mods folder of Vortex, and when one re-prioritizes mods, the files linked to are simply updated with the new file as priority determines; essentially, it'd build what would have been housed in the VFS and then link every file therein individually instead of all at once through virtualization... and unlike VFS, it'd do it on a low level that the .EXE is (indeed, all EXE's are) natively designed to interact with, instead of one that has to be injected; there's a lot of simplicity, compatibility, and stability benefit to that, beyond simple avoidance of false positive viral reports.

With relatively easy debug options like the Q&A's mentioned "emergency purge" button which would (presumably) wipe out any file system entries in the whole folder tree that are symbolic, and a polar opposite feature I'd also recommend (if you're readin this, Tannin) which would purge and re-deploy a fresh and unsullied set of links, even problems like @TwoArmedMan15 had (which i agree, would suck donkey balls to recognize/fix, otherwise) would be two button presses away from solved, and would honestly become as ubiquitous and quick a procedure as LOOT sorting, where you'd do it every time, just to be sure. :P

I'm not sayin VFS doesn't have major benefits, or that it is isn't a preferrable option; there's a reason i do some multi-step trickery with a third party file browser, some esp shuffling and manually copying lists of .esp's into relevant .txt's to use LOOT on MO2 with FO4, :P but with the *right* implementation, I wouldn't consider a non VFS approach entirely unusable, at least not without first giving it the benefit of the doubt and a good try. :) Edited May 12, 2017 by TerminusVitae

[croc123]

First, regarding virtualization... I am not sure yet about W 10, but W 7's implementation of sym links has been somewhat problematic, and prone to failure when a 'hard implementation', such as a system file fix, happens to overwrite a link. Now that MS is only doing maintenance on W 7, maybe not a problem... Please, no comments on this. It is what it is, as my Oncology Dr. so nicely puts it.

 

The way that I intend to use a manager is to keep a list of the mods that I have installed, including overwrites, and, hopefully be able to make separate lists for separate installs of the same game. Say I want set A of mods for character a, and a different set B of mods for char. b. And I do mean DIFFERENT. I may mod a mod in set A and have the same mod vanilla in set B So, in your language spider.dll may not be the same in game a as it is in game b, but in the original mod it is untouched.

 

Currently, NMM does a truly 'hard link' as the mods are all physically copied and stored in a separate location on (in my case) a different drive to my game drive. Not the best use case for drive storage... However, it is rather bullet-proof. For one set of files in one game.

 

IFF sym links were stable, AND there were enough intelligence in the manager to recognize time-date changes in files (and to keep BU copies of changed files...) and to know when to overwrite what files from what mod, as well as to be able to keep separate lists of files of files used in game ver. a as well as the list of files in game ver. b... THEN you might have a game manager of mods that wasted no space. How to do that with no type of internal DB? Hey, YOU are the software engineer. I only do hardware.

 

On a last note, my primary aversion to MO was its tendency to want to do everything for the user, in a rather non-transparent way. If I can't reverse-engineer what the manager is doing, then I can't recover from failures.

 

I will front up for guinea pig duty...

Edited May 12, 2017 by croc123

[JimReaper]

 

In response to post #50015817.

 

 

 

Wadu436 wrote: Will Vortex have different profiles and will you be able to easily reorder mods (like on the left lane of MO)?

Profiles: yes

reorder mods: yes with a but: The mechanism how you reorder mods is different from MO. I believe it's more powerful and easier to use in the long run but it's different so there will be an adjustment period for users. I'm excited to see if people will love it or hate it. :wink:

 

 

Does that mean that Vortex will still allow me to see all the conflicting files in its GUI and reshuffle mods/hide files?

 

 

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #50022052. #50023972 is also a reply to the same post.

ozoak wrote:

I never really pondered the name, but perhaps I should pull out the language - Oxford Dictionary - fascist inside me: Vertex might have been a better choice?

 

Nexus, def: a central or focal point, a join or binding together

Vertex, def: a point where lines join or intersect, or an apex (high point)

Vortex, def: a swirling mass

Spot the odd-man out. ;)

 

Whilst I believe Vortex is I derivative of vertex, vertex is a description of the intersection point of many lines, also a technical term very relevant to the modelling involved in a lot of the mods Nexus hosts, and finally also indicates a high point, apex, or crown of a thing.

TerminusVitae wrote: Ah, but what is a Vortex but a Vertex? :P XD A Nexus of swirling, curved lines? :P XD

A vortex rotates around an axis, though ;)

[Deleted2041124User]

In response to post #50022052. #50023972, #50027932 are all replies on the same post.

ozoak wrote:

I never really pondered the name, but perhaps I should pull out the language - Oxford Dictionary - fascist inside me: Vertex might have been a better choice?

 

Nexus, def: a central or focal point, a join or binding together

Vertex, def: a point where lines join or intersect, or an apex (high point)

Vortex, def: a swirling mass

Spot the odd-man out. ;)

 

Whilst I believe Vortex is I derivative of vertex, vertex is a description of the intersection point of many lines, also a technical term very relevant to the modelling involved in a lot of the mods Nexus hosts, and finally also indicates a high point, apex, or crown of a thing.

TerminusVitae wrote: Ah, but what is a Vortex but a Vertex? :P XD A Nexus of swirling, curved lines? :P XD

Dark0ne wrote: A vortex rotates around an axis, though ;)

I like that the Vortex will be sucking a mass of mods from the Nexus down to our devices and allowing us to dip our hands into that swirling mess to use what we want when we want.

Hopefully without also getting dragged in...

[SorrelKat]

In response to post #50022052. #50023972, #50027932, #50028447 are all replies on the same post.

ozoak wrote:

I never really pondered the name, but perhaps I should pull out the language - Oxford Dictionary - fascist inside me: Vertex might have been a better choice?

 

Nexus, def: a central or focal point, a join or binding together

Vertex, def: a point where lines join or intersect, or an apex (high point)

Vortex, def: a swirling mass

Spot the odd-man out. ;)

 

Whilst I believe Vortex is I derivative of vertex, vertex is a description of the intersection point of many lines, also a technical term very relevant to the modelling involved in a lot of the mods Nexus hosts, and finally also indicates a high point, apex, or crown of a thing.

TerminusVitae wrote: Ah, but what is a Vortex but a Vertex? :P XD A Nexus of swirling, curved lines? :P XD

Dark0ne wrote: A vortex rotates around an axis, though ;)

Baradar67 wrote: I like that the Vortex will be sucking a mass of mods from the Nexus down to our devices and allowing us to dip our hands into that swirling mess to use what we want when we want.

Hopefully without also getting dragged in...

If it's anything like getting dragged into the Matrix, I'm all for it!

[Vrailful]

In response to post #50022052. #50023972, #50027932, #50028447, #50029147 are all replies on the same post.

ozoak wrote:

I never really pondered the name, but perhaps I should pull out the language - Oxford Dictionary - fascist inside me: Vertex might have been a better choice?

 

Nexus, def: a central or focal point, a join or binding together

Vertex, def: a point where lines join or intersect, or an apex (high point)

Vortex, def: a swirling mass

Spot the odd-man out. ;)

 

Whilst I believe Vortex is I derivative of vertex, vertex is a description of the intersection point of many lines, also a technical term very relevant to the modelling involved in a lot of the mods Nexus hosts, and finally also indicates a high point, apex, or crown of a thing.

TerminusVitae wrote: Ah, but what is a Vortex but a Vertex? :P XD A Nexus of swirling, curved lines? :P XD

Dark0ne wrote: A vortex rotates around an axis, though ;)

Baradar67 wrote: I like that the Vortex will be sucking a mass of mods from the Nexus down to our devices and allowing us to dip our hands into that swirling mess to use what we want when we want.

Hopefully without also getting dragged in...

SorrelKat wrote: If it's anything like getting dragged into the Matrix, I'm all for it!

Good luck with not getting dragged in...
For me that will be next to impossible :D

[SalvationKing]

I agree with some other commenters in that the name Vortex is not that great. It doesn't really mean anything in this context. However, I also understand the reasoning behind not naming this program NMM2 or anything with 'Mod Manager' in the name. I don't think you can really get a single-word name that captures the range of functions you hope for this program to have in the future.

 

Maybe something along the lines of "Nexus Point"? A 'Nexus' refers to a location at which multiple paths converge, so that captures the idea of having multiple functions and features contained in a single program. 'Point' because this program is that location. Just a suggestion.

 

Thanks for the awesome work, Nexus team.

 

Regards,

SalvationKing0.