Are Creation Club products mods?

[Thuggysmurf]

Here, now you can watch Skyrim characters argue about it in game:

[gnarly1]

 

Correct. But you've failed the evidentiary test once again. Who in this community is demanding payment?

I said expect or demand payment.

Indeed you did. I went with the demand option (you did write 'or') as it's easier to evidence - I was actually doing you a favour. As an example, a modder might expect payment, but not make a demand for payment.

 

 

 

Because you claimed mod authors have a right to expect payment.

Please quote the post where I made that claim. I'm keen to see your evidence of something that I did not say.

 

 

 

Please quote posts in context.

Reading comprehension fail, I'm afraid - twice in one post! I quoted your entire post - recommend you check if you don't believe me.

 

 

 

...our posting history begs to differ with it and we don't appreciate being falsely maligned.

Is that the royal 'we' or do you have parasites....?

 

 

 

Otherwise the unwillingness to grow up and admit when your wrong in discussions is yours not ours.

Given you've failed to support any of your dubious claims with actual evidence, you've accused me of stating something I did not actually state, you've accused me of quoting you out of context when I quoted your entire post, and your arguments have been systematically demolished, the only person in this thread that seems to have some difficulty admitting when they're wrong is you.

 

Frankly, you're a colossal hypocrite.

 

Word.

[TheMastersSon]

Here, now you can watch Skyrim characters argue about it in game:

What a riot. I had to pause that several times to catch my breath from laughter.

 

Note to gnarly1, I stopped engaging forum trolls more than 20 years ago. Try a different approach other than personal attack.

Edited October 14, 2017 by TheMastersSon

[LeddBate]

Well, I predict this thread will be scrutinized closely by the moderators soon. Sooo, before that happens...

 

I think Creation Club would be fantastic for console users if they put up more mods (pardon, I meant "content") like the recent Survival Mode. It's the first real meaty content. So much better than the lame re-skins and equipment first offered for the FO4 launch of CC. If I played Skyrim on an Xbox, I'd want the Survival Mode very much.

 

My issues with Creation Club (my "hate" if you will) stem from the following:

1) Forcing files onto my hard drive, whether I ever intended to purchase the mods or not. Now, this issue has recently been addressed for PC users by Bethesda, -so it no longer applies to me. Console users are (unless I've missed something in the news recently) still forced to accept the files. Updates, patches and fixes are one thing. Putting something on my HD that I have no intention to ever use without my permission is another. Console users are still stuck with this problem. (Can someone with solid info confirm or deny this please?)

 

2) The pricing practices are (to use the description of another forum member here) "scummy". Example: They priced Survival Mode at 800 credits. But when you look at the "tiers" of credits available for purchase, you either have to buy 750 or 1500. The higher tier costs $14.99. So, Bethesda is getting $15. for a mod (pardon, content) that (in terms of credits) is only about $8. So unless you kept your free starting 100 credits handy, you have to massively overpay to get Survival Mode. That was done deliberately to maximize profit. It's scummy.

 

3) Currently, every time the Creation Club updates for either FO4 or Skyrim, it makes changes to the main files. This can break mods. Very, very few mods, admittedly. However, some of the mods that are affected are enormously important ones that OTHER mods depend on. SKSE 64bit, for example. Yes, it's in Alpha right now, so changes are going to be happening constantly for the near future anyway. But once SKSE64 reaches a stable beta, every time the CC updates, SKSE will have to be updated. The Silverlock team has a fantastic track record of keeping up to date (from back in the days when Skyrim was still new and updating constantly with bug fixes, new DLC like Dawnguard, Dragonborn, etc.) -But there will be at least a slight, unavoidable delay. During that delay, every mod that depends on SKSE64 will likely not function. So, yes - the Creation Club CAN interfere (in a roundabout way) with mods.

tl;dr Every time CC updates, your script extender(s) will likely not function correctly and all mods that depend on them will likely not function correctly.

 

So that's my "hate". And I think it is well-founded. However, I agree with the other points made by the various posters in the first couple of pages (before this thread began spiraling downwards into troll-territory.)

 

EDIT: @Thuggysmurf: Thank you for the video. That was hilarious. The passport at the end was a nice touch. And really, this reminds me of a fourth "hate".

 

4) Pete Hines double-speak when interviewed about the Creation Club is nauseating. It is borderline condescending. Talking to your fanbase in that manner is an excellent way to alienate them.

Edited October 15, 2017 by LeddBate

[gnarly1]

<snip>

You've gone a tad off topic which is whether CC products are mods. Even Bethesda support refer to CC content as 'mods'.

[Virde]

 

My issues with Creation Club (my "hate" if you will) stem from the following:

1) Forcing files onto my hard drive, whether I ever intended to purchase the mods or not. Now, this issue has recently been addressed for PC users by Bethesda, -so it no longer applies to me. Console users are (unless I've missed something in the news recently) still forced to accept the files. Updates, patches and fixes are one thing. Putting something on my HD that I have no intention to ever use without my permission is another. Console users are still stuck with this problem. (Can someone with solid info confirm or deny this please?)

 

 

You are correct. The issue no longer applies to PC users but Console users must still have it done this way due to limitations with both Microsoft and Sony.

 

2) The pricing practices are (to use the description of another forum member here) "scummy". Example: They priced Survival Mode at 800 credits. But when you look at the "tiers" of credits available for purchase, you either have to buy 750 or 1500. The higher tier costs $14.99. So, Bethesda is getting $15. for a mod (pardon, content) that (in terms of credits) is only about $8. So unless you kept your free starting 100 credits handy, you have to massively overpay to get Survival Mode. That was done deliberately to maximize profit. It's scummy.

 

 

I would have agreed with you if they didn't listen to the complaints and lower the price of Survival down to 500 Credits. I honestly would prefer CC if they made it so that purchases can be made in 100 Credit Tiers with discounts every $5 or $7 Spent.

 

 

3) Currently, every time the Creation Club updates for either FO4 or Skyrim, it makes changes to the main files. This can break mods. Very, very few mods, admittedly. However, some of the mods that are affected are enormously important ones that OTHER mods depend on. SKSE 64bit, for example. Yes, it's in Alpha right now, so changes are going to be happening constantly for the near future anyway. But once SKSE64 reaches a stable beta, every time the CC updates, SKSE will have to be updated. The Silverlock team has a fantastic track record of keeping up to date (from back in the days when Skyrim was still new and updating constantly with bug fixes, new DLC like Dawnguard, Dragonborn, etc.) -But there will be at least a slight, unavoidable delay. During that delay, every mod that depends on SKSE64 will likely not function. So, yes - the Creation Club CAN interfere (in a roundabout way) with mods.

tl;dr Every time CC updates, your script extender(s) will likely not function correctly and all mods that depend on them will likely not function correctly.

 

 

This happens with every patch that changes the game version. Not every release of CC content. F4SE didn't break when DOOM content got added to the CC because it didn't change the game version (Script Extender checks game version on launch. If it doesn't match, it doesn't launch).

 

But updates "breaking" is normal. It's happened with every update to both Skyrim/Fallout 4 that has changed the game version or added content in the update.esp. This is par for the course and what we've been dealing with as modders and players who make mods since both games released. To expect different suddenly or get angrier than usual suddenly is specious.

[LeddBate]

 

<snip>

You've gone a tad off topic which is whether CC products are mods. Even Bethesda support refer to CC content as 'mods'.

 

 

You're right. I'll try to stay more on target. But first I need to thank Virde for his info.

 

 

 

(concerning pricing)

I would have agreed with you if they didn't listen to the complaints and lower the price of Survival down to 500 Credits. I honestly would prefer CC if they made it so that purchases can be made in 100 Credit Tiers with discounts every $5 or $7 Spent.

 

 

(concerning updating)

This happens with every patch that changes the game version. Not every release of CC content. F4SE didn't break when DOOM content got added to the CC because it didn't change the game version (Script Extender checks game version on launch. If it doesn't match, it doesn't launch).

 

But updates "breaking" is normal. It's happened with every update to both Skyrim/Fallout 4 that has changed the game version or added content in the update.esp. This is par for the course and what we've been dealing with as modders and players who make mods since both games released. To expect different suddenly or get angrier than usual suddenly is specious.

 

 

Concerning pricing: I didn't know they'd changed the price of Survival Mode. Thanks for the info. That's better. Not because it's cheaper in-and-of itself, but that it doesn't force you to buy a ridiculously higher tier of credits.

 

Concerning updating: Oh, I'm not arguing (or ignoring) that. I was just irritated that CC is (I'm guessing) going to update a LOT more often than patches. However, I wasn't aware about the fact that CC does NOT cause the same issue. Thanks for setting me straight on that.

 

Also, I'm ashamed to admit I had to look up "specious."

[PeterMartyr]

 

 

<snip>

You've gone a tad off topic which is whether CC products are mods. Even Bethesda support refer to CC content as 'mods'.

 

 

You're right. I'll try to stay more on target. But first I need to thank Virde for his info.

 

 

 

The gruen report: I can't believe how naive you are about Advertising & PR. If Bethesda tell you the sky is PINK, you believe that too. What was Official Morrowind Content called, Official Plugins, What was Oblivion Content called? You know like Horse Armor....

 

Now there called Mods. LOL the sky is falling, Bethesda HAS an entity, neither male or female, is using it 's prerogative to change it mind & call it whatever wants too. You know? To increase Console Sale to the maxi.

 

 

The job of policing the Forum is not your job & against the rules, that the moderators job, pull your head in.

 

 

AND THEY ARE NOT MODS... Sorry Ledd your just meat in sandwich, no offense intended against ya, carry on your good work, feel free to go off topic since it was CC related. Annnnnny time in my book. Any where you like...

 

SINCE WHEN DOES RELEASING A GAME MOD -> require a run - time updated?

 

MODS need to be updated to RUN-TIMES, not cause them, Prove LEDD wasn't off-topic you vigilante

 

ps I once again apologize to Mr LeddBate, for including him in this, but I needed him to make my point, about Mods (sorry Official Content)

 

Argue with him, disagree with him, make fun of him, but don't POLICE him with your opinions AKA J.S. It offend me to the point I proven they are not Game Modification beyond the shadow of a doubt. So this thread is closed. IMHO.

 

Disclaimer: in no way, shape or form, do I implied the Mr LeddBate needs me to defend him. He doesn't.

 

Lastly If you argue that Mods can cause run-time updates I will start a petition to censor you since that blatant Trolling or for Stupidity that can't be denial. For the period of 1 week only. aka 7 days.

 

Lastly many months ago about SKSE in May, some bloke wrote "Wasn't SKSE estimate in March" I did a conceivable, you do not know what words means to him, with estimate, lol. He wrote 6 paragraphs calling me a Smart Arse, with personal derogating remarks against me, to make him self feel better. I just laughed when i read it, And fawn at him, Sorrry bloke, I didn't mean it, I deeply apologize I offended you. Because it made feel important, He didn't realize I still joking with him....... I wasn't sorry at all. oh crap i went off topic. or did I.(think about it)

 

 

Look it up if you don't believe me.

 

 

Have I not entertain you? While proving they are not MODS?

 

 

 

I freely admit that I use some Spin Doctoring against Spin Doctoring, so not every thing I wrote is accurate, so don't bother pointing that out, I know already. But nevertheless I still say they are not mods. They said they are:~ even tho some cause run-times updates, so we're both liars, but who do believe More?

 

summing up

 

Have we had a run-time update aim mainly at CC, I don't care if not all the content need Run-time updates, 1 is enough to condemn them all. I don't want to now see 85 % mods - 15 % Official Content, it means your back peddling. The question was Yes or No, and it has to be No.

 

 

 

in-regard to Ledd #1 that need to be fix for Consoles, M & S & B so need to work together for that. ASAP.

[gnarly1]

<snip>

That was a glorious stream of consciousness that probably made sense to you.

[PeterMartyr]

 

<snip>

That was a glorious stream of consciousness that probably made sense to you.

 

 

Well you couldn't reply so what got?

 

 

That was a glorious stream of consciousness that probably made sense to you.

 

 

I don't much regard for your against the rules policing the forum? How about I just replying to you, until it guilty without a doubt? :devil: