Shezarrine: The Fate of Tamriel (Spoiler thread)

[SotouShinobi]

Was I not supposed to have KS Hairdos installed already? I restarted a new game and installed the latest patch of the game, Ingvi has different hair, eyes, and eyebrows than she's supposed to. I restarted the Winterhold questline over 5 times becuase of this and Im seriously sick of how tedious it is.

[Yueviathan]

 

Applause!!!! Yay, this is the type of discussion I was hoping would happen in this thread and thank you so much for the very in-depth answers from the both you ibraw and you Anbee.Anbee I fully respect this approach to a character well done and figured that maybe the intent. For me, this mod is challenging the moral of both myself and my character as you can see.As well as the choices in answers and actions provided which I'm aware is hard to cover.I find myself trying to reason with Onmund or feeling the need to provide a third option that can be a compromise to the options he sees or neutralize the hate he has. For my character right now, my bond with him is strong and I don't want to damage it. However at the same time wish to stand firm in my beliefs while meeting his, my character wants to save him from his hate. And help him see things from the ones he demonizes. I understand all well why Onmund has the feelings he does as would many, the problem is once you commit such an act of revenge, it tends to loop infinitely.

 

I wouldn't compare magic in this game universe to technology or even how we handle it. Not to mention we do have a restriction on technology that does indeed work. Restriction on most weapons work, and well there's a reason people aren't dying from nukes and biothreats every day. Restrictions regulations do work, and while other forms of violence can take its place in other areas, but overall an attempt to stop the violence does work. Whereas in Tamriel where everyone and their grandmother has a weapon and or knows a spell. The justice isn't as well distributed in that universe, in fact, it very much a wild wild west in Tamriel. If the bandit attacks aren't an indication alone. I mean threw out the game your attack by everything and you witness every hold attack by everything, and well the attacks that do the most damage are vampire attacks, dragons, and if you lure a rogue mage near a hold. Lets not even talk about the damage the Dragonborn he/she can do on their own accord >.<.

 

Personally, I like the concept of magic and technology used together and mages embraced and using magic to better the world. I agree with Onmund's dream here in that sense however without any rules or consequences when people do wrong and people are killed because it's definitely a when not if. This just sounds like an ultimatum for those who already lost so much, and yeah I just wish I can say that to him or show threw actions where I stand without it seeming like one side or another. Because that does bother me that we have to fall on one side or the other, and not be an entirely new concept or something that's in the middle of both ideals. However, that may also be the point, that no matter what you do Onmund may only see it one or two ways.

 

Either way, I'm finding the mod to be morally challenging since my route is trying to keep Onmund at my side while also seeing more and more our views collide and I like that. For me I RP my character creating a universal peace for all of Tamriel eventually when becoming high king or ascending. Basically doing a tiber septom, but uniting everyone. Finding a peace among the different views or a compromise that's close enough and makes most of the people happy. So I find this mod to be a very realistic challenge to a Dragonborn that wishes to do this and I thank you for that.

I would very much like to second the last paragraph. I may not be that far along with his quests & dialogues, but it's pretty much apparent that while Onmund has the intention and the drive to make his world "perfect", the notion itself shows how naive he is. Of course he's willing to see that he himself is flawed, but after suffering vehement abuse from one group, then finding acceptance from that group's antithesis, his willingness to help made him easy to manipulate and be biased based on his experienced. One cannot help but base their worldview on the principles he received firsthand. He is not a conscious propaganda-spewing agent - he honestly believes that everyone from his branch of Thalmor, or at least their leader (a surrogate mother figure) would do and feel about his goals as he does (that's why they are in the same group, right?), even if he and they have to dirty their hands. He seems to recognize problems well enough in other factions, but it's easy to see issues everywhere, except within. :smile:

 

I'd find it really intriguing if later chapters show some kind of character development for him regarding this. He's spending time with the Dragonborn (who may be a treasured friend or lover), away from the Thalmor. Will it make him to look at his views from a different perspective? Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I love roleplaying, and this mod gives me an opportunity to do just that. Especially with him, because I'm quite strict when it comes to my characters' personality, morals and integrity. If anything in this resembles a realistic take of how relationships work, a few spats and differences in opinion shouldn't have an irreparable influence, so I'm noe afraid to make my cgaracter give him a piece of his mind, whether he likes it or not. Kinda similar to the Dragon Age series Anbee menrioned: I used to play those in the same vein, telling companions if I thought they were wrong, or if my character's views differed. I was not adored by everyone, but lip-servicing them and choosing all the "right answers" is an easy trap to fall into, which I would avoid. I really do hope that I can complete this mod like this (even if I can't, I will, because I'm not compromising my character :tongue:), and it will bring a little drama or tension to this whole relationship. A few new dialogue options for a more rounded debate with him would be awesome, but I can understand that the plot in itself has to stand first, and the characters have a sort of a duty to move it forward to its desired course, needing some sacrifice. Headcanon always helps with the rough edges, but I hope we will not be too pigeon-holed later in the story (after the prologue).

 

I'm not wishing to criticize, quite the opposite: I think most here can agree with me that we get so few opportunities to enjoy roleplaying with an in-depth, detailed and lifelike (especially compered to vanilla) companion & story that we desperately wish to squeeze the last drop of enjoyment out of it. Apart from a few moments where my character was a little forced into some of the answers, I love this mod, and find analising & testing it very fun. Thanks for listening to our ramblings. :D

 

I couldn't agree more Nova. Thank you so much for the amazing mod Anbee and the continuing work. Look forward to the full package

[anbeegod]

 

[Benbone]

Eh, got a question again, but its not any problems in that way. Did the Solsteim/dragonborn quest now, and I killed Miraak, but then in the conversation with Onmund I can only say that I didnt kill him and are ally with him? Was a bit suprised there.. Did I miss something very important part there? :D

 

Then I got a liitle thoughts and feelings about this mod in general. Its very good, but the player cant really be diplomatic or smart in some conversations, the options are basically "uhh, u with tha racists" or "ohh, im so impressed by the thalmor, they are soooo good".. Dont take this the wrong way, I am having really fun with this mod, and the twists are really good, so keep up the goodiness :)

[anbeegod]

Eh, got a question again, but its not any problems in that way. Did the Solsteim/dragonborn quest now, and I killed Miraak, but then in the conversation with Onmund I can only say that I didnt kill him and are ally with him? Was a bit suprised there.. Did I miss something very important part there? :D

 

Then I got a liitle thoughts and feelings about this mod in general. Its very good, but the player cant really be diplomatic or smart in some conversations, the options are basically "uhh, u with tha racists" or "ohh, im so impressed by the thalmor, they are soooo good".. Dont take this the wrong way, I am having really fun with this mod, and the twists are really good, so keep up the goodiness :smile:

 

Thank you for reporting.

[superfi24]

OK, so first of all I need to say that I love this mod and like many people here I think It's one of the better one out there. But I also have to add that, as a gay guy who plays a male character, am so grateful that you included homosexual romance option in this mod, which is still a rare thing to see both in modding and video games in general. So thank you.

 

But it doesn't mean I have some problems with this mod. 2 of them might be bugs while the other is personal 'cause I'm petty like that.

 

So first of all, is it normal that Onmund doesn't have a voice? I can see the subtitles and all, but I can't hear his new dialog tree.

Secondly, I never got the option to kill Ingvi. Was it because I didn't exhaust all her dialog before telling her to "do what she must do". Honestly, I would have killed her at first, but after reading that Onmund would never forgive me, I'm kinda glad I didn't do it in the end, 'cause if it wasn't obvious, I want to romance him.

 

Which brings me my personal issues, which is Onmund and his dialogue options.

When Onmund started shouting at the Psijics at the end of the college quest line, the first thing I tought was "Golly gee, he got possess by Ancano's dead spirit!" but turns out it wasn't true, which kinda irked me a bit. I'm usually not a big fan of drastic shifts in character, but in a romantic setting it can become very interesting when done well 'cause it adds the whole "Can I even trust you now?" subplot which I live for. I would have like to see some more dialogue options in which your character could still be bitter towards Onmund but the guy still wants to fix the relationship with the MC. That again is the kind of fluff and angst that I die for.

 

The other thing is how biased Onmund is on most discussions. There's a lot of times where I wished I could slap some sense into him, 'cause no I don't agree with every thing he says, mostly on his position on magic (like a lot of people here). But why I think this is brought up a lot is mostly because you're expected to agree with him to keep a good relationship. It's be liked or be hated with him. I hope that in the future chapters, we will be able to revisit those discussion to see some character development, 'cause even tho you can improve your relationship with him, Onmund still feels kinda one sided and stuck up in his ideals. Trying to shine a new light on the Thalmor is interesting, but when every other quest mod and even the vanilla game antagonize them, it doesn't really work for me. But this is probably because there's a lot of characters that I haven't met yet, so I can't really relate to there 'cause right now. Utopia is quite the big boy word that I tend to disagree with, mostly because in most works involving this topic, it's usually very flawed and lead by a tyrant. You also usually follow a character that rebels against this society. Finally, I really felt like Ingvi got blinded by power of the eye and I was very surprise that Onmund didn't felt that much betrayed by her sister, even tho she kept secrets from him and doesn't share his point of view anymore.

Long story short, to get on Onmund's good side, you're expected to agree with all the information that is trowed at you without much complaints and it annoys me a bit.

 

In the end, I totally understand that you can't make everyone happy, and I'm probably not the only one. But when we take the time to voice our complains here, it's not because we're expecting a huge change in the mod, but because we see the potential it has. I'm sure you understand that as well.

 

Again, thank you for hard work! I can't wait for the future chapters and see where this is going.

 

P.S: When will you know that Onmund "likes you likes you" back? Will you get a shift in dialogue or you need to get yourself the amulet of Mara?

[Dixanan]

Hi! I wanted to know if this mods is compatible with "The Paarthurnax Dilemma" and/or "Delphine Go Away"? Am I going to miss a lot of dialogue if I choose to use them? I haven't installed any of those mods yet because I wanted to ask you first. I'm enjoying your mod and I haven't got any issues so far.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Dixanan

[anbeegod]

 

 

P.S: When will you know that Onmund "likes you likes you" back? Will you get a shift in dialogue or you need to get yourself the amulet of Mara?

 

He is supposed to have a voice. Did you place Shezarrine.esp below every mod that modifies Onmund?

 

You can disagree with him (on political or ideological matters) but still romance him; it takes a bit more work than if you agree with him but it is achievable. That is also what differentiates my Onmund with traditional followers like Bioware and Fallout 4's, where you have to do a lot more work (if not impossible) to romance but disagree with a follower. Unless you're the kind of person whom he hates (usually by expressing utter selfishness, racism, or attack him or those whom he holds dear personally), he's chill with most of your word and action.

 

Making the Thalmor grey is one of the most important points of the story. I hate villains that are "destroy the world, I am evil because I am supposed to be evil" - which is exactly what vanilla Thalmor is according to the player community and Michael Kirkbride - and that's why I've put a lot of work to shape the Dominion and the Empire's (which you will see in later parts) society and philosophy. You see, none of the characters and factions in my writing is truly good or evil, because I am against the very concept. Just as the real world, no nation or person put the entire world's interest above their own, but neither are all of them completely selfish beings.

 

Did you ask Onmund if he's interested to know more about you? That's the starting point of the romance. After that, he will ask you about a dinner and asks you to go to Whiterun with him. The romance continues from that point.

 

 

Hi! I wanted to know if this mods is compatible with "The Paarthurnax Dilemma" and/or "Delphine Go Away"? Am I going to miss a lot of dialogue if I choose to use them? I haven't installed any of those mods yet because I wanted to ask you first. I'm enjoying your mod and I haven't got any issues so far.

 

You can place the mods that modify the Paarthurnax quest below Shezarrine.esp, as Shezarrine only adds a few dialogues for Onmund on the quest.

Edited March 31, 2018 by anbeegod

[superfi24]

 

 

 

P.S: When will you know that Onmund "likes you likes you" back? Will you get a shift in dialogue or you need to get yourself the amulet of Mara?

 

He is supposed to have a voice. Did you place Shezarrine.esp below every mod that modifies Onmund?

 

You can disagree with him (on political or ideological matters) but still romance him; it takes a bit more work than if you agree with him but it is achievable. That is also what differentiates my Onmund with traditional followers like Bioware and Fallout 4's, where you have to do a lot more work (if not impossible) to romance but disagree with a follower. Unless you're the kind of person whom he hates (usually by expressing utter selfishness, racism, or attack him or those whom he holds dear personally), he's chill with most of your word and action.

 

Making the Thalmor grey is one of the most important points of the story. I hate villains that are "destroy the world, I am evil because I am supposed to be evil" - which is exactly what vanilla Thalmor is according to the player community and Michael Kirkbride - and that's why I've put a lot of work to shape the Dominion and the Empire's (which you will see in later parts) society and philosophy. You see, none of the characters and factions in my writing is truly good or evil, because I am against the very concept. Just as the real world, no nation or person put the entire world's interest above their own, but neither are all of them completely selfish beings.

 

Did you ask Onmund if he's interested to know more about you? That's the starting point of the romance. After that, he will ask you about a dinner and asks you to go to Whiterun with him. The romance continues from that point.

 

 

Hi! I wanted to know if this mods is compatible with "The Paarthurnax Dilemma" and/or "Delphine Go Away"? Am I going to miss a lot of dialogue if I choose to use them? I haven't installed any of those mods yet because I wanted to ask you first. I'm enjoying your mod and I haven't got any issues so far.

 

You can place the mods that modify the Paarthurnax quest below Shezarrine.esp, as Shezarrine only adds a few dialogues for Onmund on the quest.

 

Thank you for anwsering!

 

I understand what you are trying to do with this mod, but I still worry a bit. In video games, the distinction between good and evil are made very clear because usually we get braindead when entertained (reason why I think FPS games are more popular than RPGs or tactical games) Be careful for not making things too gray and that the position and goals of every parties in the story (Psijics, Bad Thalmor, good Thalmor,Daedric Princes, Empire, Regular People and Ingvi) are made very clear as the story progresses. Be wary of the Fallout 4 factions. Most of these factions were so "gray" in there ideals that I didn't want to join any of them in the end. The brotherhood, tho righteous were douchebags. The railroad, the real opposition to the Institute, seemed to only care for the synths, little for the general population. The Institute stole our baby, and even tho they would be good for the future of earth, aren't very fond of the life and good people that remained. And the minutemen had Preston, who had too many settlements stuck up his ass. Fallout 4 was poorly criticized by players who felt forced to play as a good person and go along with the plot. But in actuality, I personally think that you were playing both good and bad at the same time. For me at least, some of the decision making were simply too hard, because I always look at both sides of the medal, even tho it's just a game. And since it seems that it will be quite the big mod, I'm not so sure that I'm willing to do a new game just to see all the possible "gray" outcomes. I also personally prefer playing a good character, which is why I still hesitate before doing the dark brotherhood quest line and the thief's' guild quest line even tho they're probably among the best quest lines in the game. So be careful of the fallout 4 trap.

 

For my Onmund voice problem, bringing "Shezarrine.esp" down in my load order fixed the problem, but now he became very ugly since my visual mods I had for him didn't work anymore. I tried getting the crimson fairy version along with the patch you made, but when it works, I get a purple face. LOOT also likes to bring "Shezarrine.esp" at the top of my load order even tho I got mods that overwrite Onmund's appearance, but the only issue I get with that is the loss of his voice. To be specific, the mods I used were: UNO (Ultimate Npc Overhaul) which was then overwritten by Skyhunks (found on Loverslab right here: https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/2248-skyhunks/) Funny enough, I tought that It would have been a mod like RDO (Relationship Dialogue Overhaul) or FCO (Follower Commentary Overhaul), which both edit how followers speaks, that would have been the issue, but no. Only the visual edits causes this problem for me.

 

 

FYI, I use MO for my mod organizer.

Edited April 1, 2018 by superfi24

[Benbone]

Ello, me again, sorry :S Uhm, Ive lost Onmund after I defeated Alduin, have been looking at player home, college of winterhold and other places, should i gather him through the console or is this supposed to happen? :)