Simple manual load ordering plz

[sopmac45]

@ Tannin or Grestorn .....

 

... I am using some custom mods / plugins in my load order, related to magic using Phenderix Magic and Skyrim.esm as master files. What I done is to increase the damage and other stuff on these ( 4 ) custom mods that I use. What is your advise in relation to these plugins added to my game ? Since they are not "regular" mods, rules cannot be implemented, except dependencies ( if needed ... ), so, should I leave Vortex auto-sort to take of them or not ? Thanks a lot ! :cool:

[Grestorn]

You've made these mods to change certain values of certain objects. So these HAVE to be loaded AFTER the mod which defines the values in the first place.

 

So just make a single rule that your mod is loaded after the mod(s) you're modifying with it. That's it.

[sopmac45]

You've made these mods to change certain values of certain objects. So these HAVE to be loaded AFTER the mod which defines the values in the first place.

 

So just make a single rule that your mod is loaded after the mod(s) you're modifying with it. That's it.

 

 

Thanks Grestorn ... will do !

[Jebbalon]

 

 

It's possible that with the kind of mods I use it's just more rare but I've had mod setups with hundreds of mods myself and I've encountered two mods (across all bethesda games between oblivion and fallout 4) where changing the load order during playthrough would be problematic and both reported the problem immediately after loading the savegame.

If this is more common than I thought it would be very good if you could give me a couple of examples because then I might be underestimating a potential problem.

 

Vortex has a feature to support this exact use case with the option to lock a plugin to a specific mod index while everything else can move around it.

If this is actually a common case, wouldn't it be smart to introduce some form of tag to the loot masterlist, something like "sticky", which loot and vortex could then use to avoid moving the plugin if possible or ask for confirmation if a move is necessary (because of rules or because the list has become too short).

 

A "lock it down" recommendation is overzealous imho, it would be very restricting and could prevent you from making load order changes that are actually necessary to avoid other conflicts. Essentially, if I understand you correctly, you restart the game every time you add a plugin that can't/shouldn't be loaded low in the load order because there might be a plugin that doesn't like being moved?

 

Your understanding is correct.

 

Vilja the Companion mod has a feature to configure several outfits. I'm not 100% sure but I think it stores the equipped items in form lists. Changing the load order of not only Vilja's esp but any of the equipped item's esps would possibly make that outfit's form list unuseable. Not a major deal as you can just remake the lists. However, if the change is such that an armor piece from a mod that moved is now trying to equip as a weapon's magic effect from another mod instead it may cause issues. So locking just Vilja's esp in place wouldn't help, you'd have to lock any mod that adds armor or clothing that you may want Vilja to wear as an outfit.

I may be wrong on that whole thing but that is an example of the type of issue that I'm referring to.

 

To be fair though I'm going to stop commenting on this topic. - As I said in my first post here, I haven't even started using Vortex. When I do - which is getting closer as I finish up some stuff - I'll try out the different features (auto-sort, locking a specific mod index) Then I'll have better idea of what Vortex is able to do.

[Deleted53237921User]

 

Here is a specific example from my grandfathers notes on his Fallout 4 mods.

 

I have three mods which update the form dn_PowerArmor. I have created a fourth that sort of consolidates the other three, taking the salient naming rules from the other three. I decided that this would be my test case for Vortex as there is a specific order that these three mods need to be in. Then there is my mod which combines the best of all three so that they work together without stepping on each other. Mine has to be last because mods and the forms they contain are a LIFO stack. The last one in the list "wins" and is the one that gets used.

 

After slogging through the "documentation" (which is woefully inadequate to the task unless you are a visual learner), I finally got Vortex installed and was able to get the list of esp files to show up in the Vortex load order management tool. I then "removed" a bunch of mods for simplicity.

 

The load order I want was as listed above.

 

Ok, this already indicates an incorrect mindset. Vortex load ordering isn't intended to give you one specific load order, it supports you in finding a working load order.

Your goal shouldn't be "I want this specific load order" but "I want my own mod to be loaded last among these three mods".

 

 

 

In one sentence, you contradict yourself. How can Vortex "supports you in finding a working load order" and not "give you one specific load order" when that one specific load order is the one that works?

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Guest

[Grestorn]

Because "one specific load order" is implying that it's talking about ONE SINGLE load order. That's why it's specific.

 

While "a working load order" implies that there are MANY load orders which work fine and are all equivalently valid and give the same results. They don't make ANY difference whatsoever.

 

And that's what this is about. In 99,99% there is not ONE single working load order, but many. And Vortex is just making sure, that you'll get one of those. Forcing it to use the one specific load order, that *you* think might be the specific correct one, is just counter-productive and error prone.

[sopmac45]

"" Forcing it to use the one specific load order, that *you* think might be the specific correct one, is just counter-productive and error prone. ""

 

>>> I tried to force Vortex to set a load order that I believed it was correct and it did not perform as I thought. After too many questions and answers, even from Tannin, I gave a shot to Vortex and now my load order is working fine. The only thing I had to do was to set up my rules in the MOD tab and let Vortex to automatically sort my PLUGINS and everything is working fine, so I support what Grestorn said above.

 

Vortex is different than NMM and I admit it was hard for me go from the previous method used in NMM to the new applied in Vortex but it is worth at the end.

[Deleted53237921User]

I will not argue with you that for the majority, Vortex will work just fine.

 

The unfortunate thing here is that for mod authors that require a specific load order for developing and testing NEW mods, Vortex is cumbersome, awkward and somewhat less than effective. It is our desire to have a functioning load order management tool for developing and testing that is considered to be a "incorrect mindset".

[Tannin42]

I will not argue with you that for the majority, Vortex will work just fine.

 

The unfortunate thing here is that for mod authors that require a specific load order for developing and testing NEW mods, Vortex is cumbersome, awkward and somewhat less than effective. It is our desire to have a functioning load order management tool for developing and testing that is considered to be a "incorrect mindset".

 

Even as a mod author you do not need to enforce one exact load order. Vortex lets you manually set the mod index of a plugin, this way you can control the load order of the mod you're developing even more precisely than with other mod management tools, it just doesn't require you to control the exact load order of all the plugins you're not developing.

 

Vortex works just fine for mod authors, it will work great for you too if you can manage to look at it with fresh eyes instead of insisting to do it like you've always done it.

[Deleted53237921User]

 

I will not argue with you that for the majority, Vortex will work just fine.

 

The unfortunate thing here is that for mod authors that require a specific load order for developing and testing NEW mods, Vortex is cumbersome, awkward and somewhat less than effective. It is our desire to have a functioning load order management tool for developing and testing that is considered to be a "incorrect mindset".

 

Even as a mod author you do not need to enforce one exact load order. Vortex lets you manually set the mod index of a plugin, this way you can control the load order of the mod you're developing even more precisely than with other mod management tools, it just doesn't require you to control the exact load order of all the plugins you're not developing.

 

Vortex works just fine for mod authors, it will work great for you too if you can manage to look at it with fresh eyes instead of insisting to do it like you've always done it.

 

 

First off, you might want to check your assumptions. I have been here less than a month and then only because I was forced to take over someone else's works. Prior to that, I had never even played on PC. So just how fresh do you want my eyes to be?

 

Since arriving, I have spent my time reviewing the legacy I inherited and pretty much understood NMM from the start. It was intuitive and with little review I was pretty much able to use it to download and activate mods within a couple hours.

 

Then I downloaded the latest Vortex version just to make sure that I had the newest "stuff". My first response when looking at it was "Where is the documentation"? I struggled with Vortex simply to get it to find the mods I have already installed. Then activating them and getting them into some form of usable load order was a tedious and error prone chore. Then getting the MODS I inherited loaded at the end of the list was as my grandfather described. I told Vortex to place my grandfathers mod AFTER another mod, and it moved the other mod BEFORE my grandfathers mod and not the other way about.

 

So since my arrival, I spent less than a day learning and using NMM. Then over the next week, I have struggled with, fought with and cursed Vortex. Vortex does NOT work fine. Vortex is not intuitive. Vortex is not simple. Vortex is overwrought for the task it is supposed to perform.

 

In the opinion of these "fresh eyes", you have delivered a jumbo jet when a tricycle would have sufficed.

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Guest