Simple manual load ordering plz

[Graybark]

Wow. And I thought I was overreacting to this change. Tannin, I apologize doubly now.

 

Not sure if I missed this in another post, but for anyone wanting to micromanage their load order, forget rules. Turn off auto-sort and set the load order manually. (I won't be doing that by the way.)

 

However, the suggestion that we only need rules to resolve conflicts is only partially true. It's true in the sense that we only have to resolve conflicts if we want the game to run.

 

It's not true in the sense that we often uses mods that do similar things or have some overlap and just arranging the sort order gets us the combination we are looking for without patches, etc. For many of the mods I'm using, the mod author explicitly tells us to do this. Just one example is Majestic Mountains and Realistic Water 2 for Skyrim SE. Thus, I have a rule to get them in the right order.

Just a heads up: It is the install order of Majestic Mountains and RWT that matters. The meshes of MM are supposed to overwrite the ones from RWT. This has nothing to do with plugin order since the mods come in a loose files version. The plugins do not conflict and MM should probably be loaded where LOOT recommends.

[passionatepilgrim]

 

Wow. And I thought I was overreacting to this change. Tannin, I apologize doubly now.

 

Not sure if I missed this in another post, but for anyone wanting to micromanage their load order, forget rules. Turn off auto-sort and set the load order manually. (I won't be doing that by the way.)

 

However, the suggestion that we only need rules to resolve conflicts is only partially true. It's true in the sense that we only have to resolve conflicts if we want the game to run.

 

It's not true in the sense that we often uses mods that do similar things or have some overlap and just arranging the sort order gets us the combination we are looking for without patches, etc. For many of the mods I'm using, the mod author explicitly tells us to do this. Just one example is Majestic Mountains and Realistic Water 2 for Skyrim SE. Thus, I have a rule to get them in the right order.

Just a heads up: It is the install order of Majestic Mountains and RWT that matters. The meshes of MM are supposed to overwrite the ones from RWT. This has nothing to do with plugin order since the mods come in a loose files version. The plugins do not conflict and MM should probably be loaded where LOOT recommends.

 

 

Oh! Thanks. I didn't understand the difference until yesterday. In my head it was just a general concept: MM after RWT.

 

Vortex and the current maturity of mods (since I'm late to the party) has made it so easy to just download from nexus, install, and enable. I don't have to know what loose files means vs. whatever the alternative is. It's all packaged up for me, the ignorant user, especially if it has a FOMOD. I purposefully avoided anything that required me to do anything manual (other than a simple ini update). I especially avoided wrye bash patches. I chose my mods for their compatibility and ease of deployment so I wouldn't have to learn the inner workings. I'm only doing any of this because console games suck now. So, I thought I'd give this a try to see if I could breathe some life back into Skyrim. So far, my expectations have been exceeded.

[sopmac45]

 

 

Wow. And I thought I was overreacting to this change. Tannin, I apologize doubly now.

 

Not sure if I missed this in another post, but for anyone wanting to micromanage their load order, forget rules. Turn off auto-sort and set the load order manually. (I won't be doing that by the way.)

 

However, the suggestion that we only need rules to resolve conflicts is only partially true. It's true in the sense that we only have to resolve conflicts if we want the game to run.

 

It's not true in the sense that we often uses mods that do similar things or have some overlap and just arranging the sort order gets us the combination we are looking for without patches, etc. For many of the mods I'm using, the mod author explicitly tells us to do this. Just one example is Majestic Mountains and Realistic Water 2 for Skyrim SE. Thus, I have a rule to get them in the right order.

Just a heads up: It is the install order of Majestic Mountains and RWT that matters. The meshes of MM are supposed to overwrite the ones from RWT. This has nothing to do with plugin order since the mods come in a loose files version. The plugins do not conflict and MM should probably be loaded where LOOT recommends.

 

 

Oh! Thanks. I didn't understand the difference until yesterday. In my head it was just a general concept: MM after RWT.

 

Vortex and the current maturity of mods (since I'm late to the party) has made it so easy to just download from nexus, install, and enable. I don't have to know what loose files means vs. whatever the alternative is. It's all packaged up for me, the ignorant user, especially if it has a FOMOD. I purposefully avoided anything that required me to do anything manual (other than a simple ini update). I especially avoided wrye bash patches. I chose my mods for their compatibility and ease of deployment so I wouldn't have to learn the inner workings. I'm only doing any of this because console games suck now. So, I thought I'd give this a try to see if I could breathe some life back into Skyrim. So far, my expectations have been exceeded.

 

 

 

... and I recommend not to pay that much of attention about what some mod authors said about in what part of the load order their mod should be placed. Since I started playing SkyrimSE in PC ( more than 2 year ago ), I have placed Flower Girls at the very bottom of the load order; recently with the last update, this mod was automatically placed in the middle of my load order, so I decided to give it a shot without changing anything ( I just trusted Vortex on what it did ) .... this mod is working as it should even though is in the middle of my load order so it will continue being there and no more headaches for me trying to place it at the bottom.

 

However, when a mod author states that their mods install several plugins at the same time, they usually states in what other those those plugins should be in the load order and we need to keep an eye if they are placed as they should. One mod that comes to my head now ( even though I am not using it anymore ) is Bruma, which generates several plugins ( and a patch if I remember correctly .. I am not sure ), so in this case, yes, I guess, we need to keep an eye if they are place automatically as they should.

 

So far, with my load order, the only thing I did was to setup my rules ( in the MODS tab ) and I let Vortex to auto-sort my load order and simply trust what it is doing. I am only running 65 mods, no merged patch at all ( do not need it ) and no compatibility patches at all since my game is running ok. But I am running one mod of a kind : one magic mod only, one armor, etc, etc .... so this way I simplify my load order, less conflicts, easier to setup rules and no need for me to use LOOT groups at all. Simply download/install/enable mods, setup rules and play. No hassles at all !

 

DISCLAIMER : I am not imposing my style to anyone since each one has his/her own way to play this game and nobody has to do what I do with my game. :cool:

[geraintwd]

Hey, just wanted to say I'm enjoying using Vortex, having come from MO2. I'm using Skyrim Special Edition and, after reading through this thread, I just wanted to confirm one thing (sorry if this has been answered but there are 8 pages of quite wordy posts here and I could easily have missed it!).

 

Just so I understand, on the MODS screen, I only need to change the order when Vortex identifies a conflict, or when I know that a mod has to be loaded after another one that it depends upon:

 

Example 1: I'm using FISSES plus a manually created mod with the preset script for iHud and iHud itself. I know that the preset script should load after FISSES and that iHud should load after the preset script, so I can tell Vortex this by dragging and creating rules on the MODS tab.

 

Example 2: On the MODS screen, Vortex places the USSEP below several other mods (e.g. Alternate Start LAL). On the PLUGINS screen, "Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp" is up the top, where it should be (after sorting with the built-in LOOT implementation). Normally I would have placed the Unofficial Patch near the top of the install order in MO2 but, as there are no conflicts identified, do I need to do anything here?

 

My inner OCD freak wants my MODS screen to be neatly ordered. Do I just need to let Vortex do its thing and trust it? I'd rather get this right now when I have a couple of dozen mods installed, as opposed to several hundred.

 

Thanks in advance :)

[Zanderat]

LOOT/Vortex will get it right from a conflict perspective. However, if you want a particular mod to load in a certain for say aesthetic reasons, then you will still need to order by hand.

[HadToRegister]

Manual load ordering is STILL needed.
I fought with Vortex the other night for 2 hours, because a mod was supposed to go AFTER another Mod,

When I first installed the mod, it went BELOW the other mod, then I installed another mod, and for some reason, the mod I first installed now moved ABOVE the mod it was supposed to be BELOW.
I opened up the mods in FO4Edit, and there were no "Master Dependencies", so I kept making a rule for the mod to load AFTER the mod it initially installed BELOW, and I kept getting that CYCLIC error message whenever I tried moving the mod below the other mod.

If I could've dragged and dropped the thing back to where it initially was, the problem would've been solved within 2 minutes, instead of 2 hours.
The only thing that worked was to uninstall the mod, and reinstall it, THEN and ONLY THEN did Vortex put it BELOW the MOD, WITHOUT COMPLAINING ABOUT CYCLIC REFERENCES.

WHY it moved the mod ABOVE the other mod after I installed a new mod is beyond me, but it's instances like there, where there are no Master Dependencies, yet Vortex complains about a CYCLIC reference that didn't exist.
THAT MANUAL DRAG AND DROP ON THE PLUGINS TAB IS NECESSARY.

Not as in VISUAL Order, but actual LOAD Order.

[Dark0ne]

I fought with Vortex the other night for 2 hours, because a mod was supposed to go AFTER another Mod

 

 

If true, that sounds like a bug that needs to be fixed, rather than a reason for "manual" load ordering. How it took you two hours to think of uninstalling the mod and reinstalling the mod, I don't know! Maybe you were just exaggerating how long it took you.

 

Either way, if it's a bug, report it, and it will be fixed.

[HadToRegister]

 

I fought with Vortex the other night for 2 hours, because a mod was supposed to go AFTER another Mod

 

 

If true, that sounds like a bug that needs to be fixed, rather than a reason for "manual" load ordering. How it took you two hours to think of uninstalling the mod and reinstalling the mod, I don't know! Maybe you were just exaggerating how long it took you.

 

Either way, if it's a bug, report it, and it will be fixed.

 

 

I wasn't exaggerating, I worked in a medical lab, where exaggeration can kill someone.

I tried to sort for two hours, trying different techniques, and took a frustration break, and stopped for other reason, but the entire process, which I could've fixed in 2 minutes, by dragging the mod to where it initially was, vs two hours of frustration.

"Manual" load ordering has many other uses as well, especially when editing/comparing mods in FO4 edit, and you need the mod to sit at a certain point in the load order for a quick look into the mods in FO4edit, instead to have to mess around with rules that could screw up your load order, when all you're trying to do is a quick edit.

 

Manually adjusting the load order HAS ITS USES.

Why is the ability to do this being argued against so much?

As I said, the only time I would use it, was in instances like that, and when editing in FO4 Edit and I need the load order a certain way.

 

It took me two hours to try uninstalling and reinstalling the mod, because I was busy trying everything else, and nothing lead to the conclusion that uninstalling/reinstalling would work, seeing as Vortex initially installed it where it was supposed to be at first anyway, I don't appreciate the snark, implying that I'm stupid, considering I didn't WANT to try an uninstall/reinstall considering what installing the last mod caused.

The only reason I DID end up uninstalling/reinstalling is a Felt I had nothing to lose at that point and my LOAD ORDER were permanently screwed.

 

I tried everything because Vortex is supposed to handle everything, and it initially did, how was I supposed to know that installing ANOTHER MOD, would somehow make some non-existent Cyclic rule?

 

Sometimes OPTIONS are good things.

It'd be nice to be able to toggle it on with an "ARE YOU SURE?" thing, just to be able to adjust a couple of mods in the load order for the sole purpose of FO4edit, for patching, and editing purposes, and then to be able to toggle it off again.

 

Apparently, I'm being misunderstood

 

[Dark0ne]

If it's a bug, report it.

 

Vortex is open source so you, or anyone else, is more than welcome to create a "manual" load ordering and/or drag and drop ordering system for Vortex. As we have said several times, we haven't decided we don't want to do it, but we have decided it's not very high on our to-do list and there are other things we'd rather work on for the foreseeable future of Vortex

 

If you don't want to create an extension to do manual load ordering and it is important to you. there are plenty of tools already in the community that can fulfill this task without you needing to completely remove Vortex.

[Tannin42]

I fought with Vortex the other night for 2 hours, because a mod was supposed to go AFTER another Mod,

When I first installed the mod, it went BELOW the other mod, then I installed another mod, and for some reason, the mod I first installed now moved ABOVE the mod it was supposed to be BELOW.

I opened up the mods in FO4Edit, and there were no "Master Dependencies", so I kept making a rule for the mod to load AFTER the mod it initially installed BELOW, and I kept getting that CYCLIC error message whenever I tried moving the mod below the other mod.

 

If I could've dragged and dropped the thing back to where it initially was, the problem would've been solved within 2 minutes, instead of 2 hours.

The only thing that worked was to uninstall the mod, and reinstall it, THEN and ONLY THEN did Vortex put it BELOW the MOD, WITHOUT COMPLAINING ABOUT CYCLIC REFERENCES.

 

WHY it moved the mod ABOVE the other mod after I installed a new mod is beyond me, but it's instances like there, where there are no Master Dependencies, yet Vortex complains about a CYCLIC reference that didn't exist.

THAT MANUAL DRAG AND DROP ON THE PLUGINS TAB IS NECESSARY.

 

Not as in VISUAL Order, but actual LOAD Order.

The reason it takes you 2 hours instead of 2 minutes isn't because of something vortex does but because you're fighting Vortex instead of just accepting how it works.

You try to enforce things that you don't need to enforce.

 

Vortex (or rather LOOT) complains about cyclic dependencies because you have cyclic dependencies, there hasn't been a single confirmed case where this message was

actually prompted incorrecly, people just forget (or intentionally ignore) that there is a masterlist as well as group rules to consider.

 

Now the other point: When you assign a rule to a plugin that says "plugin a after plugin b" that rule determines only the relative ordering between those two plugins

because it only intended to resolve the conflict between those two plugins and nothing else. The remaining order is entirely under LOOT and can change in whichever way

it chooses. There is no promise (explicit or implied) and no need to keep the remaining order unchanged.

This means that the rule "plugin a after plugin b" only means that a will be after b, but whether b will then be at mod index 5 or 50 or 200 and how many plugins will

be put between them is up to LOOT and it shouldn't matter to you because if you also cared how plugin c is placed relative to plugin b then you'd have set a rule for

"plugin c before/after plugin b".