Trump

[NCSCNL]

If you are attempting to enter this country ILLEGALLY, you are indeed a criminal. Simply allowing folks in because they made a long journey is senseless. Maybe they should have stayed at home, and fixed the problems in their own country, instead of making a dangerous journey, and then expecting some other country to take care of them. Also, by and large, sure, the folks trying to come here illegally aren't necessarily 'bad' people, however, they do tend to be low-skill, low-education folks, that are more of a drain on our resources than the folks that come here legally. And of course, we DO get a fair few criminals as well.

 

It really ISN'T that complex of a problem. Folks are trying to sneak into our country illegally. They are starting out their 'life' here, by breaking our laws. Quite frankly, that is NOT the type of people I want coming in. Build the wall, patrol it. Secure our borders.

 

@HeyYou thanks for your reply and i understand your point here. But official statistics from both US Government, NGO organizations and institutions seem to disagree with the views of those who believe that Illegal immigrants have such a big impact upon the crime rates as being claimed by the current administration, also the idea that the vast majority of these immigrants are low-skilled and low-educated is being heavy disputed by official sources and studies over the past 25 years. Sure Illegal immigration is against the law i understand that. But the idea that these people should have fixed their problems in their own country is short sighted at best, for the simple reason that these people if they would attempt to do something credible in their country to "fix" things may very well result them being politically prosecution or become victim of local crime lords, gangs and other life threatening dangers. Dangers that you as a US citizen will NOT face. People do not understand how dangerous it can be for a person to be born in a nation where the political environment is corrupt, dysfunctional and self serving. Rule of law, and social policies are largely run by corrupted officials who leech the system, while only serving their own interests and that of powerful gangs, kartels and other scum. Please understand that i am not justifying illegal immigration but the idea that these immigrants do have the option to actually change the situation in their own country is just shortsighted and in 9 out of 10 cases not true. Key example is Venezuela these people are in DEEP s#*!, and they may have a tiny option to actually change the situation but this is not because these people found a way but its because their leader Maduro has made to many enemies internationally and on top of that it has LOTS of oil which like it or not is a VERY powerful reason for world leaders, and the fact that the population is being left to rot, is sort of a secondary motivation to the international community. The political climate in other south American nations is even more corrupt but these leaders try to stay away from the international stage and try to remain under the radar knowing full well that the international community has the power to force them out of office and end their corrupt policies. Does that mean that the US should allow everyone inside their borders and take care of everyones problems? As you said:

 

then expecting some other country to take care of them

 

 

Obviously not however the US as a first world nation, a co-architect of western democratic values and frankly the most dominant force behind many of the international treaties, organizations, institutions and NGO's that pledges to: Take care of those in need and see these people are being treated with dignity and respect. This has been one of the corner stones of US foreign policy for the past 75 years. The same applies for the EU and most pro-western individual nations around the world.

Anyway enough politics everyone is entitled to their believes, views and opinions but they are not entitled to their own facts. And this is the key point why the international community is getting increasingly angry with the Trump administration and its policies. That said if you believe that Trump is the right president for you then i totally respect that and i also respect your views and opinions.

You know down the line: Every action Trump takes every word he says, claims and portrays as true, fact or alternative fact is on record and cannot be taken back or undone, right or wrong the consequences of his policies and the effects of his words will define American politic's for decades to come and maybe its for the better and maybe its not however if Trump is right then time will tell and history will judge.

 

Anyway thanks for your time and reply.

Kind Regards,

Nico

[sopmac45]

If you are attempting to enter this country ILLEGALLY, you are indeed a criminal. Simply allowing folks in because they made a long journey is senseless. Maybe they should have stayed at home, and fixed the problems in their own country, instead of making a dangerous journey, and then expecting some other country to take care of them. Also, by and large, sure, the folks trying to come here illegally aren't necessarily 'bad' people, however, they do tend to be low-skill, low-education folks, that are more of a drain on our resources than the folks that come here legally. And of course, we DO get a fair few criminals as well.

 

It really ISN'T that complex of a problem. Folks are trying to sneak into our country illegally. They are starting out their 'life' here, by breaking our laws. Quite frankly, that is NOT the type of people I want coming in. Build the wall, patrol it. Secure our borders.

 

Agreed 100%. Entering anywhere, house, company or country without the expressed, required and legal permission, is considered illegal and when somebody enters a country without the required legal permission, that person automatically loose his/her rights; by such, that person can be put in jail, deported and even killed if the authorities considered necessary and nobody can criticize that at all.

 

That is why I used the sample of home privacy. You have your house and you would never allow anybody to enter your house without your permission, otherwise, the intruder is exposing himself/herself, to be shot right there if the owner of the house consider that intrusion a life threating situation to himself or his / her family. Period.

 

I am not against legal immigration at all because I am also an immigrant but I followed the correct steps to get my Permanent Residency and after 5 years, my citizenship and I learned English ( as I was supposed to do ).

 

@ NCSCNL … you wrote :

 

"" Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. Most of these programs require proof of legal immigration status and under the 1996 welfare law, even legal immigrants cannot receive these benefits until they have been in the United States for more than five years.""""

 

Wrong. I do work for a company that allow me to talk to immigrants the whole day and they do not have even a Social Security and received food stamps, Medicaid and other benefits I won't talk about. This is not right at all. This force me to go back to my statement : why should I use my resources to sustain a foreigner instead supporting my own family ? Charity starts with you own family. The Government of US should think about the legal citizens of US and provide to us what we do not have, a better healt and really affordable system that easily could top any of the world by just doing the right thing; a better and more affordable education for everyone; the more people with access to University, the more educated your society is, the more scientist you will get and overall, a society without education is doomed.

 

But when you use those resources to sustain illegal immigrants, then everything starts to go upside down as it is now. Understand this : presidentes of other countries are doing this on purpose, creating a bad situation in their countries so the people can flee and look for a better life in US. Cuba did it and Fidel Castro sent to us back in the 80's, all the cuban criminals that were in prison. Now we are invaded eveyday by mexicans and people from Central American and I am not saying that all of them are bad people but why should we resolve their problems when we, those who live in this country by legal means, have to pay taxes to support them and support the culprits : the presidents of those countries who ( again ) do this on purpose.

 

Closing the border is the key. The other alternative would be to invade those countries and take those presidents by force. Obviously that is not an option because again, it is not our problem and that would be to interfere in their internal affairs so If we want to lead by example, we should stay aside and let them resolve their problems as they want to, not by practically "supporting" those presidents by allowing those who have been ejected to enter US anytime they want. We are stabbing ourselves by doing that. I would never take the bread away from my children mouth to give it to a neighbor's child because that neighbor is not doing his/her job as a father. That is exactly what US is doing by not approving Trump's initiative to close the border. But those who are against Trump have their houses with a fence and bodyguards watching over them 24x7 and they will never allow anyone to enter / violate their homes right ? Because the senators / congressman and millionaires have everything, money, food, security, obviously they talk. It is very easy to talk when you have everything at your disposal but when you have to work 40 or more hours per week, you do not make a great salary and on the top of that the heal insurance are unpayable, then you start wondering about all of these issues.

 

The wall must be built and a the army should be deployed, kill 50 and you will see if the rest will try to enter again. Unfortunately, they left us no other option, either they do it by the "force of the common sense or by reason of the force". When a government do its job in the way they are supposed to do it, population do not flee. But when you have governments like Daniel Ortega, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala and Mexico, corrupted governments, people must flee but that is not and should not be our business at all. Just for your information : the former president of Mexico Pena Nieto, made 150 times more money every month than Obama. Nieto left the presidency and now he is a multi-billionaire while the population without a job, have no option to come to US. I pity them but at the same time, why they do not take a machete and a weapon in their hands and start resolving their own problem inside their own country ? Obviously, while the US south border remains open, they won't do that. So basically US is allowing those presidents to continue doing their bad job and we are taking the problem created by those criminal presidents, in our own hand. Wrong !! Absolutely wrong !!

 

Try to do that with your own family and see if your family will not complain to you. Your family should be first. For US government, we, the legal residents and citizens of this country should be first and our help should be to allow immigrants only if they follow the rules and all the steps at the Embassy of US located in those countries. Some laws must change in this country and never is too late to fix our own mistakes.

[NCSCNL]

@ NCSCNL … you wrote :

"" Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. Most of these programs require proof of legal immigration status and under the 1996 welfare law, even legal immigrants cannot receive these benefits until they have been in the United States for more than five years.""""

 

 

 

Wrong. I do work for a company that allow me to talk to immigrants the whole day and they do not have even a Social Security and received food stamps, Medicaid and other benefits I won't talk about. This is not right at all.

 

 

Sorry i did not know they where receiving food stamps. Then the US government website has not been updated.

 

Please take a moment and read this: https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-immigrants-and-public-benefits/

Are undocumented immigrants eligible for federal public benefit programs?

Generally no. Undocumented immigrants, including DACA holders, are ineligible to receive most federal public benefits, including means-tested benefits such as Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP, sometimes referred to as food stamps), regular Medicaid, Supplemental Security Income (SSI), and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF). Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for health care subsidies under the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and are prohibited from purchasing unsubsidized health coverage on ACA exchanges.

Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for a handful of benefits that are deemed necessary to protect life or guarantee safety in dire situations, such as emergency Medicaid, access to treatment in hospital emergency rooms, or access to healthcare and nutrition programs under the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC).

 

Regards Nico

[Mktavish]

If you are attempting to enter this country ILLEGALLY, you are indeed a criminal. Simply allowing folks in because they made a long journey is senseless. Maybe they should have stayed at home, and fixed the problems in their own country, instead of making a dangerous journey, and then expecting some other country to take care of them. Also, by and large, sure, the folks trying to come here illegally aren't necessarily 'bad' people, however, they do tend to be low-skill, low-education folks, that are more of a drain on our resources than the folks that come here legally. And of course, we DO get a fair few criminals as well.

 

It really ISN'T that complex of a problem. Folks are trying to sneak into our country illegally. They are starting out their 'life' here, by breaking our laws. Quite frankly, that is NOT the type of people I want coming in. Build the wall, patrol it. Secure our borders.

 

The problem will never be fixed with a wall. Has a wall ever fixed problems in history ? No the problem will be fixed when their reason to come here is allevieated. Which can be fixed for a hell of a lot less than what the wall would cost.

 

The simple problem is greed. There is a larger and DARK machine at work here , which we with our fake morality choose to ignore.

The only thing a 30billion dollar wall will do is make people richer who don't give a shiot about it. And in fact are profiting from the machine in place.

A wall will make no one safer from crime. The only thing that will happen is the money that crime produces will get funnelled through some people , like Trump.

Basically we paid for someones glory hole , and got f*#@ed in the ass.

[Mktavish]

@ Hey You I realize we will never see eye to eye though .... So what say you .... the country should just split up , so we can actually get some functional government. The political divide has just gone to far ... there is no fixing it.

 

Hehe , me thinks that's what Donald was elected to do all along. Which means he f***ed the America first people in the ass .

And I have to say after dealing with the mentality of segregation for so long ... I am convinced it is the only way forward.

Segregation of the mentalities.

Our time and effort is to short to waste on trying to convince each others extremes.

 

In 10 years the TV will be filled with attorney commercials about people who were duped into veganism :tongue:

[Mktavish]

Oh by the way ... in my experience .... the reason you would b&@*$ about welfare is that you are in fact living your existence in a state of welfare.

And I mean because your job pays you more than you are worth ... which is a big problem with A LOT of american citizens collecting a check.

I call them clock punchers ... you know who you are ... and I am putting you on notice that your days of leaching of the system are soon to be over.

Cuz if you can't produce something in your day for what you are paid for it in an equitable sense ... then society does not need you.

 

I have never met one lazy mexican as the saying goes. But lazy self entitled americans ... I have met plenty.

[Mktavish]

Aint no wall gona fix that you are a lazy self entitled piece of shism. Stuff still needs to get done ( which you ain't gona do ) So what will the wall really fix ?

 

Drugs and sex slave traffic ? That would be nice if that got fixed ... but we both know a wall is not going to fix that , not even a dent.

[RGMage2]

Well I say good fences make good neighbors. Trouble is Americans are thinking about this all wrong - high tech, steel slats, poured concrete - nope, don't do it that way. Do it the old fashioned way, bricks and mortar. You can hire cheap less expensive Mexican labor and they can build it from their side of the border. Think of it as foreign aid as you will be pumping 30 billion US dollars into the Mexican economy and helping to make Mexico great again. It would also help balance out the guns and bullets that American foreign aid usually consists of.

 

You need to think about the future. Think about future generations of tourists who will come from all over the world to marvel at the Great Wall Of Trump. And at the end of the day refugees seeking asylum will continue to line up at official border crossings as they do now. So it's a win win and everyone's happy. :)

[HeyYou]

No, the wall won't solve the problem. But, it will go a long way toward reducing it. Eliminating the reasons that folks come here illegally is NOT our problem. It is not our job to solve other countries problems. (much as our government seems to think it is, provided said country has resources we can exploit....) Illegals are not solving anything by coming here. They are RUNNING AWAY from their problems. They should stay at home, and work on fixing their OWN country, rather than coming here to leach off of us. Not to mention that when we step in, in an attempt to 'solve' other countries problems, we make a mess of it, and things end up being worse than they were to begin with. We simply CANNOT 'fix the world'. It is impossible. Why? Exactly as you say. Greed. And a lust for power. It is human nature. Look at what happened in Iraq when we stepped in. We took a stable country, and turned it into one giant terrorist training ground. Our wars in Iraq, and Afghanistan led to the 'Arab Spring', which further destabilized several other countries. We turned our backs on governments we had been allied with for years, and watched as the civil wars started. You can bet we were selling arms to both sides though.

 

The US has a proven track record of being absolutely terrible at Nation Building. We don't have the money, the military, the political will, or citizen backing for any more of it. We need to address our problems right here at home, including illegal immigration, and get OURSELVES back on track. Once that happens, maybe THEN we can turn our eyes outward again, and see what we can do for those less fortunate.

 

But, ARE we going to get ourselves back on track? Looking at the current situation, I don't see it happening any time soon. The political divide is just too great, and it is getting wider. With the current direction the democrats are heading, all they are going to accomplish is to further divide the people. We are heading for a fall, and its gonna be a big one. Things simply cannot continue as they are. Something is going to give, and when it does, the entire world will be affected. I fully expect to see civil war in the US again, within the next 20 years. If not sooner.

[Deleted67195711User]

Here are some important pieces of information to aid this discussion.

America is a signatory to the 1951 Convention on Refugees and the following elements and protocols are defined in that Convention.

• A refugee is defined as any person or persons who are fleeing from what they perceive to be unsafe, dangerous or life threatening conditions in their native country.
• A refugee can freely cross any international border to seek asylum.
• A refugee may not be returned to the country they fled.
• A refugee family unit cannot be separated or broken apart.
• A refugee should not be incarcerated or prosecuted.
• A refugee is entitled to all the same legal protections of the host nation which are afforded the citizens of that nation.

According to the UN, the people arriving at the southern border of the US from Central and South America are refugees.

If that ain't enough:

 

According to the FBI Crime Statistics, Refugees do not commit a disproportionate amount of crime, and are in fact less likely to commit crimes.

 

According to the DEA National Drug Assessment for 2018, the illegal drugs entering this country come in through legitimate Ports Of Entry, and the quantity of drugs which come across the border between these ports of entry are statically insignificant.

 

According to the US Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor and Statistics Annual Performance Report, refugees contribute to the economy. This report also says that the major cause for the diminishing number of manufacturing jobs is automation and robotics.

 

According to the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration Data and Statistics, the majority of those who are in this country illegally (non registered foreign nationals) are people who entered the country with a valid visa and never left to return to their home country.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Guest