Nice as a user, but kind of painful as a modder

[tesnexus8]

I might be missing something, but Vortex seems to make it a real headache to keep developing any mod I've uploaded to the Nexus thanks to it checking for "damaged" files every time any (other) mod is added or removed or updated. It's a great feature for 99.99% of users, but it's getting quite aggravating for me. We could really use a way to turn that off, either globally or (ideally) on a per-mod basis.

 

I could uninstall the mod from Vortex and keep it as loose files to work around it but that adds issues of its own, especially when trying to track down problems users are having (like if the uploaded version is missing a file).

 

If it's hard to fit it into the system then I understand, but it not it would be very nice to have.

 

Thanks.

[Pickysaurus]

Vortex is currently designed with modders in mind rather than authors. As an author myself I've given some similar feedback to the team, which may be considered once Vortex passes it's 1.0 release (or sooner if someone creates an extension for it).

 

Personally, I use Vortex for actually playing the game, purge my mods when I'm done (to reset back to vanilla), then use MO2 for developing mods.

 

It's something that can definitely be improved in future so if you have specific suggestions send feedback via the Vortex app :smile:

[tesnexus8]

After getting used to Vortex in FO4 (which I don't mod), I decided to use it for Skyrim too (which I DO mod), and it was a terrible mistake. Vortex is still overwriting files in the Data/ tree basically at will, WITHOUT PROMPTING, whenever ANY mod is updated, even if the modified local files are from a different mod entirely. It's just a nightmare.

 

I can see the excuse / reason of "well, it's a sort of automatic repair in case someone messes up their Data dir", but even then, silently overwriting files is just absolutely unacceptable behavior for any program, ever.

 

This absolutely HAS to change, even if only by as much as a "Don't overwrite modified local data" checkbox in the options somewhere. As it stands, for all that I love it when it "works" and can see how this wouldn't be a problem for a "normal" user, it's so incredibly hostile to modders - who MAKE the content that defines Vortex's purpose in the first place - that it's just literally unusable. The fact that it can destroy hours or days of work, for no reason and with no warning, is just insane.

[Tannin42]

tesnexus8: If this is the case then that would be a bug. I'd be very surprised though.

Vortex does not silently overwrite files in data.

Any file it deployed it will show an "External Changes" dialog if the file was modified.

Any file not managed by Vortex will be renamed to <original name>.vortex_backup before the Vortex file gets deployed.

 

If however you modified a mod and then update that mod you should not be surprised that that modification gets overwritten, I don't think any mod manager maintains modifications across a mod update, how would that even work?

[soupdragon1234]

After getting used to Vortex in FO4 (which I don't mod), I decided to use it for Skyrim too (which I DO mod), and it was a terrible mistake. Vortex is still overwriting files in the Data/ tree basically at will, WITHOUT PROMPTING, whenever ANY mod is updated, even if the modified local files are from a different mod entirely. It's just a nightmare.

 

I can see the excuse / reason of "well, it's a sort of automatic repair in case someone messes up their Data dir", but even then, silently overwriting files is just absolutely unacceptable behavior for any program, ever.

 

This absolutely HAS to change, even if only by as much as a "Don't overwrite modified local data" checkbox in the options somewhere. As it stands, for all that I love it when it "works" and can see how this wouldn't be a problem for a "normal" user, it's so incredibly hostile to modders - who MAKE the content that defines Vortex's purpose in the first place - that it's just literally unusable. The fact that it can destroy hours or days of work, for no reason and with no warning, is just insane.

 

I've never had it do what you say and I modify Skyrim mods all the time including my own. Everytime it detects something has changed it pops up a warning about files having changed and do I want to keep a) Newer file b) Save change c) Revert change. I've never had it silently revert or overwrite anything.

 

If you want a mod manager that is a nightmare for modders that is MO/MO2 the hoops you have to jump through just to get it to co-operate with the CK and other tools are something else and the principal reason I won't use it., xLodGen for one had to add an extra -o switch to output to a "real" folder especially for MO as it can't write to virtual folders. Vortex's popup warning is a minor irritation at best.

[tesnexus8]

Thanks, but that prompt you get is exactly what I'm NOT getting. As I said, it just overwrites every change whenever it deploys anything, without even a notification let alone asking for confirmation.

"It works for me" is great for you, but not much help to me. :)

 

(And you can't STOP it deploying, even if you set that to manual, because it does it forcibly when you change games).

 

TBH, even if it did prompt, if it did it EVERY time I'd still probably uninstall it, since on a complex mod I can easily go through dozens of revisions, and being prompted every time not only gets too frustrating to keep dealing with but also begs for you to click the wrong button at some point, which is why what I was asking for back in Jan was a way to exclude a mod *permanently* from being tampered with. But having no prompt at all AND wiping out the changes is obviously far worse than that. :(

[AugustaCalidia]

@tesnexus8

 

My experience with Vortex is counter to yours. Vortex does not overwrite files without first notifying me through the external changes menu. I've used Vortex for a year and a half and have never experienced your particular problem. This information may be of no immediate help in resolving your issue. However, given Tannin42's comment and the comment of two other users, it does seem to suggest that the problem is with your Vortex installation and not with the program itself.

[HadToRegister]

I mod almost every ESP in my load order
I'm talking 279 ESPs and ESPfes, and I always get a notification when I deploy, and it asks me if I want to REVERT, SAVE CHANGES, or USE NEWER

[tesnexus8]

Sorry Tannin - I somehow missed your post yesterday.

 

> If however you modified a mod and then update that mod you should not be surprised that that modification gets overwritten

 

Yes, I'd be surprised if it DIDN'T get overwritten in that scenario. But that's not what's happening here. Any deployment at all, explicitly NOT for something like reinstalling the mod I'm actually working on - which would be stupid in the extreme :P - silently reverts any changes to anything in Data/ that is "owned" by ANY mod.

 

> tesnexus8: If this is the case then that would be a bug. I'd be very surprised though.

 

Well, then I guess it's time to be surprised. Sorry. :/

 

> Vortex does not silently overwrite files in data.

 

Mine does. (Emphasis on "MINE" apparently needed - we've established that it SHOULDN'T be doing this, and trolls throwing "OMG NOOB!" insults around are not helpful, Zanderat). On my FO4 setup (albeit with an older version of Vortex) I remember it prompted the way it should. On my SSE setup though, it doesn't, and just steamrolls Data/. (I haven't had a chance to check FO4 on the newer version, but I expect it'll be fine still).

 

I did notice the vortex_backup files, thanks - I recovered the changes from them, but again: any time any mod was installed, or enabled, or disabled, all those changes would be lost again.

 

I don't know why. I don't know enough about the internals TO know why. But I CAN easily imagine how deployment WOULD mass-overwrite things, since that's kind of its job...

My best guess, without digging into the code (which I won't have time to do for another couple of months at best) would have to come down to it somehow thinking that the file wasn't actually different, but I can't imagine how that would happen, or why it would then decide to overwrite the "not different" file anyway.

 

So, yeah, it's weird and broken. I'll probably nuke the install and start over (though it'll have to wait until next weekend). Tannin, is there anything you want from it (settings, logs, whatever) before I do that? (Though I already removed all the mods from the SSE profile yesterday, in preparation for removing the game from being managed by Vortex, so it may well be that anything helpful is already lost with that done, sorry).

[tesnexus8]

> On my FO4 setup (albeit with an older version of Vortex) I remember it prompted the way it should.

 

That was what prompted the original post back in Jan. I was asking for a way to mark a mod as "this is being revised, so exclude it from being overwritten by deployment" (and thus stop nagging me about it every time I install a different mod) - which would still be a very useful feature to add, BTW.