Load order sorting is terrible

[AugustaCalidia]

@Uranium - 235 et al.

 

ADDENDUM to my previous post about Vortex and "Horizon."

 

I think it worth mentioning that after I had assigned "z_Horizon.esp" to "Dynamic Patches" and sorted the plugins with Vortex, the resulting load order looked like this:

 

*Everything that isn't Horizon*

*Horizon main file*

*Official Horizon supporting files*

*Unofficial Horizon patches for everything that is above Horizon*

 

This order is what the mod author recommends. Interestingly enough, in my game load order everything for which "z_Horizon.esp" is a master did in fact come after it, even though those plugins were in the "Default" group and not the "Dynamic Patches" group. Conclusion: when it comes to the mod "Horizon," LOOT seems to know what it's doing.

 

On the matter of loading last, load order matters only in the case of plugins that conflict, as Tannin42 has often pointed out. The same holds true for "z_Horizon.esp." It doesn't have to be absolutely last in the load order unless it conflicts with every other plugin in a way that requires it to be last in the load order. In my own game load order I did a random check and found a number of plugins in the "Default" group whose place in the load order was of no consequence to "z_Horizon.esp." That means that "z_Horizon.esp" could be loaded before those other plugins without limiting or breaking its operation in the game.

 

Finally, after playing around with some of the Horizon options I discovered that at least two of the official Horizon supporting files do not require "z_Horizon.esp" as a master. Do they still have to come after that plugin? If so, then they can be placed in the "Dynamic Patches" group along with the main file. Vortex, using LOOT, will sort them properly.

 

Finally (one more time), while looking into all of this, I discovered that "Horizon" is a truly impressive mod that can significantly enrich game play in Fallout 4. I applaud Zawinul for this mod and for his extraordinary creativity.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Augusta Calidia

[Madhojo]

 

 

I need to make OVER TWO HUNDRED RULES just to get Horizon slotted at the bottom of my modlist.

 

Just getting z_horizon.esp to the bottom of your load order requires HUNDREDS OF RULES.

 

 

Then you clearly don't know what you're doing.

As rmm200 and Augusta said...

 

z_horizon.esp ------->DYNAMIC PATCHES------>BOOM!! Bottom of the modlist without 199 other rules.

 

I suggest reading the Knowledge Base, especially the "Managing your load order" section, "About load orders", and "The Vortex guide to load order sorting"

 

Good lord, the hate for manual sorting is insane and completely unjustified.

 

Also that doesn't work, I'm trying to load a plugin at the bottom of my list as well and when I changed it's group to Dynamic Patches (which is my last group in the load order) all it did was drop the plugin's load order from 14 to 19 out of 180...

 

And setting up a new rule to have the plugin load after my Alternate Start plugin makes Vortex give me an error saying that I've violated the 4th rule of robotics "thou shalt not have cyclical rules"

 

I just can't believe that when NMM merged with LOOT we lost one of NMM's best functions which was the drag drop manual sorting ability. So strange that we all mod to add more depth to a game and the very manager we use decided to take depth away from itself... what a world we live in.

 

All in all after searching for answers (plus watching Vortex's unhelpful tutorials) and finally coming across this forum post I had to say something. I understand defending something you like or support, but blindly defending it's poor decisions is ridiculous. Taking out easy manual sorting was a bad move, period. I still like Vortex for the most part, as it turns out, you can still be a fan of something and be critical of it.

[HadToRegister]

 

Good lord, the hate for manual sorting is insane and completely unjustified.

 

 

Also that doesn't work, I'm trying to load a plugin at the bottom of my list as well and when I changed it's group to Dynamic Patches (which is my last group in the load order) all it did was drop the plugin's load order from 14 to 19 out of 180...

 

And setting up a new rule to have the plugin load after my Alternate Start plugin makes Vortex give me an error saying that I've violated the 4th rule of robotics "thou shalt not have cyclical rules"

 

I just can't believe that when NMM merged with LOOT we lost one of NMM's best functions which was the drag drop manual sorting ability. So strange that we all mod to add more depth to a game and the very manager we use decided to take depth away from itself... what a world we live in.

 

All in all after searching for answers (plus watching Vortex's unhelpful tutorials) and finally coming across this forum post I had to say something. I understand defending something you like or support, but blindly defending it's poor decisions is ridiculous. Taking out easy manual sorting was a bad move, period. I still like Vortex for the most part, as it turns out, you can still be a fan of something and be critical of it.

 

 

 

If you got a cyclic rule then you assigned the plugin to a group, then tried to load that plugin AFTER another plugin that was in a group that loads BEFORE the other group.

 

You're clearly better off going back to NMM where it will let you make a complete mess of your load order.

 

Let Vortex sort your load order and stop trying to force your load order on it.

 

I have 368 mods in Skyrim SE, and don't have the trouble you claim to have.

 

Your problem is a case of PEBCAK

 

Anyway, you'll find NMM on github, go and bask in its glory, as it's quite clear from your post that you have absolutely no idea what you're doing in Vortex.

[rmm200]

And if you do post here again - please do not Necro a two year old post. Start your own post.,

[Guest deleted34304850]

 

 

 

I need to make OVER TWO HUNDRED RULES just to get Horizon slotted at the bottom of my modlist.

 

Just getting z_horizon.esp to the bottom of your load order requires HUNDREDS OF RULES.

 

 

Then you clearly don't know what you're doing.

As rmm200 and Augusta said...

 

z_horizon.esp ------->DYNAMIC PATCHES------>BOOM!! Bottom of the modlist without 199 other rules.

 

I suggest reading the Knowledge Base, especially the "Managing your load order" section, "About load orders", and "The Vortex guide to load order sorting"

 

Good lord, the hate for manual sorting is insane and completely unjustified.

 

Also that doesn't work, I'm trying to load a plugin at the bottom of my list as well and when I changed it's group to Dynamic Patches (which is my last group in the load order) all it did was drop the plugin's load order from 14 to 19 out of 180...

 

And setting up a new rule to have the plugin load after my Alternate Start plugin makes Vortex give me an error saying that I've violated the 4th rule of robotics "thou shalt not have cyclical rules"

 

I just can't believe that when NMM merged with LOOT we lost one of NMM's best functions which was the drag drop manual sorting ability. So strange that we all mod to add more depth to a game and the very manager we use decided to take depth away from itself... what a world we live in.

 

All in all after searching for answers (plus watching Vortex's unhelpful tutorials) and finally coming across this forum post I had to say something. I understand defending something you like or support, but blindly defending it's poor decisions is ridiculous. Taking out easy manual sorting was a bad move, period. I still like Vortex for the most part, as it turns out, you can still be a fan of something and be critical of it.

 

i read your post, several times actually.

I absolutely disagree with every point you've made. Not because I "like" Vortex, but simply because the points you raise are at best inaccurate, and at worst, betray a complete lack of comprehension in what it is you're trying to achieve.

While you are entitled to your opinion, just know that literally everything you've stated is 100% wrong.

You want a mod to be at the bottom or load last in your load order. My question to you would be why?

What if you have two mods that MUST BE LAST - what do you do then? You can only have one be last of all. Does that break your game?

There is a very simple and very clear method to load something last - its not mission impossible. The fact that you can't do it points to a lack of knowledge from you and a belief that some sort of drag/drop is infinitely better. Why is it better?

Do you know more about load order placement than LOOT? What is the information you have that LOOT is missing which renders the whole Vortex/LOOT sorting broken for you?

 

I'd love some actual detail rather than opinion based on fallacy. Please give up some actual, real world mods that are sorted wrong and I'll bet you that people in this forum can help you resolve your unsolvable issue in minutes.

[Guest deleted34304850]

And if you do post here again - please do not Necro a two year old post. Start your own post.,

yeah, anyone who is too lazy to open a new thread to complain about something is a bit of a red flag. to me it suggests they lack the minerals to sit down and understand what they're doing. zero effort.

still collections are on the way, so they'll be pro modders in no time and all will be well with the world.

[AugustaCalidia]

@Madhojo

 

 

Good lord, the hate for manual sorting is insane and completely unjustified.

 

Nobody hates manual sorting. However, many Vortex users (including myself) find it a waste of time, given that LOOT gets the sorting right most of the time. In the few cases where LOOT gets it wrong, then LOOT allows custom group assignments (which is manual, by the way).

 

 

Also that doesn't work, I'm trying to load a plugin at the bottom of my list as well and when I changed it's group to Dynamic Patches (which is my last group in the load order) all it did was drop the plugin's load order from 14 to 19 out of 180...

 

And setting up a new rule to have the plugin load after my Alternate Start plugin makes Vortex give me an error saying that I've violated the 4th rule of robotics "thou shalt not have cyclical rules"

 

You're clearly doing something wrong here. What mod are you having trouble with?

 

 

I just can't believe that when NMM merged with LOOT

 

NMM was never merged with LOOT. Nexus Mods stopped supporting NMM in 2016 in favor of developing Vortex, which is an entirely different mod manager. As HTR has pointed out, NMM is available on GitHub.

 

 

Taking out easy manual sorting was a bad move, period.

 

It's not a bad move, when there's a better way to accomplish the same goal, which is a load order that remains stable and dependable. Having manually sorted mods for years, I gladly embraced Vortex when I understood how it worked and what it did.

[Guest deleted34304850]

something that will finally put a nail in the coffin of this particular brand of nonsense around drag/drop of mods and plugins is collections.

if you take a look at the post and the video's that are on the announcement that has been released, as well as pulling down mods for you, meta data including where a mod loads before/after is also pulled down and used by vortex to build out the collection, load order and all.

 

hopefully we'll not have to deal with stuff like this in the forums once that new facility takes hold.

[SirTwist]

To put a further nail in this coffin, just use Mod Organizer 2 over Vortex. You can use Loot to sort your mods, which is alright in most situations. But being able to move mods around is so easy with MO2 that I think that it is nearly second nature to me. All I have to do is click on a .esp, .esm, or .esl, and move it where I want it. No need to use rules, or anything like that. And I am running with 312 active mods, and 375 plugins on SSE alone. And I don't mess, too much, with my load order, because I have set how I like it. So, yeah, time to put this back in the land of the dead.

[showler]

Being able to easily change your load order is either a benefit or a detriment depending on whether you are really good at modding or not.