HadToRegister Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Mod lists will be a thing for vortex.Mod lists will also be an issue for Mod Organiser, and any other mod manager that appears in the future, as well as for the sites that host mod packs, and those that hold the original mods. To say nothing, of course, of mod authors. Never-the-less, as I observed, mod packs are not a specifically Vortex issue. Further, given that the OP's comments did not refer to how mod managers will handle mod packs, but rather the distribution of money and credit (issues irrelevant to Vortex) I maintain that this thread does not belong on this discussion forum. Agree, plus it's not, nor ever has been "pinned" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetsuYorokai Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 Mod lists will be a thing for vortex.Mod lists will also be an issue for Mod Organiser, and any other mod manager that appears in the future, as well as for the sites that host mod packs, and those that hold the original mods. To say nothing, of course, of mod authors. Never-the-less, as I observed, mod packs are not a specifically Vortex issue. Further, given that the OP's comments did not refer to how mod managers will handle mod packs, but rather the distribution of money and credit (issues irrelevant to Vortex) I maintain that this thread does not belong on this discussion forum. Actually, The issue was about Vortex adding the ability to install mod packs. Since Vortex is the official Mod Organizer for the site that hosts all the mods. The discussion led to monetization and its role in copy rites. I'm not sure if you read my comments. But! HOW mod packs are implemented will depend entirely on HOW they handle the split of money and copyright issues. Implementation is actually very simple if we get technical. Basically, a mod pack would be export and import of a persons procedures and settings. It would be somewhat like a batch file install that could use simple language. (think of the mods that already have optional installs that require user input) Many issues would be avoided by simplifying update procedures as well. As long as all versions of all mods are hosted, updating can be scripted easily. A simple If<else loop would determine if a clean install would be preferable which would help keep bandwidth use as low as possible. A troubleshoot system is the thing needed to address individual system issues. The forums would be responsible for this. A contribution point system would help assure people come back to give their results since many people dont return and tell if the issue was resolved. People with negative points would be ignored since they will not likely return and waste the time of the community. Many Authors are worried about recognition and/or donations. Nexus is worried about copy rites shutdowns. So before we would even discuss Implementation of the feature we need to resolve money and legal issues. I hope this Post would be stickied because it is generally disregarded. And Nexus seems to actively avoid this issue. Just like the big AAA game companies, they will not do anything about it unless there is a BIG uproar about it. Hey I understand, people are scared. Lets not let our fear of change to control us. But before you start arguing with me. Please read the first couple of post Im involved in the beginning. I still have not played SkyrimVR because I dont have the time to mod it. Barely have time to play VR as it is. So this issue is very important to me. There are LOTS of people who feel the same as I do, but instead of being vocal about the issues of how people look down to them and say, dont be lazy, they would prefer to spend what little time they do have to play other unmodded VR games. This in my opinion is a bigger slap in the face to modders than not getting recognition. Some modders might say that they make the mod for themselves and not others and we should be lucky that they are sharing. Imagine if the inventor of the internet felt the same way and where we would be if they never gave it to us. Where would they be? Mod packs have a lot of things to unpack. I just started this post to have a place to collect everyone's ideas and to hopefully bring to attention to Nexus how much we ALL are losing because of their refusal to add this feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetsuYorokai Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 Mod lists will be a thing for vortex.Mod lists will also be an issue for Mod Organiser, and any other mod manager that appears in the future, as well as for the sites that host mod packs, and those that hold the original mods. To say nothing, of course, of mod authors. Never-the-less, as I observed, mod packs are not a specifically Vortex issue. Further, given that the OP's comments did not refer to how mod managers will handle mod packs, but rather the distribution of money and credit (issues irrelevant to Vortex) I maintain that this thread does not belong on this discussion forum. Agree, plus it's not, nor ever has been "pinned" The title was made to get an Admins attention, so they WOULD pin it. Hence the HOPEFULLY. Please if any one can, I ask that this be pinned. Even if I rarely update it myself, I would like this to be a constantly discussed issue until it is implemented. If I get deleted tomorrow, I will have the regret of never having played SkyrimVR modded. Every time I get a chance to play VR, I am sad that I dont have the chance to play SkyrimVR. If anyone lives close to me, and would like to come and mod my game for me. I would be very happy! I'll pay you twenty dollars! and five every time it needs updated! PM for my general location! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadToRegister Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Mod lists will be a thing for vortex.Mod lists will also be an issue for Mod Organiser, and any other mod manager that appears in the future, as well as for the sites that host mod packs, and those that hold the original mods. To say nothing, of course, of mod authors. Never-the-less, as I observed, mod packs are not a specifically Vortex issue. Further, given that the OP's comments did not refer to how mod managers will handle mod packs, but rather the distribution of money and credit (issues irrelevant to Vortex) I maintain that this thread does not belong on this discussion forum. Agree, plus it's not, nor ever has been "pinned" The title was made to get an Admins attention, so they WOULD pin it. Hence the HOPEFULLY. Please if any one can, I ask that this be pinned. Even if I rarely update it myself, I would like this to be a constantly discussed issue until it is implemented. If I get deleted tomorrow, I will have the regret of never having played SkyrimVR modded. Every time I get a chance to play VR, I am sad that I dont have the chance to play SkyrimVR. If anyone lives close to me, and would like to come and mod my game for me. I would be very happy! I'll pay you twenty dollars! and five every time it needs updated! PM for my general location! WRONG FORUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dferstat Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Actually, The issue was about Vortex adding the ability to install mod packs. Since Vortex is the official Mod Organizer for the site that hosts all the mods. The discussion led to monetization and its role in copy rites. I'm not sure if you read my comments. But! I did, indeed, read your comments. However, in your first two posts in this thread, as they stand right now, you make NO mention of any technical issues involved with Vortex handling mod packs. I believe that you have a fundamental confusion regarding the Nexus, and Vortex. The Nexus is a website that hosts files. It offers a few premium services to members in exchange for money, and also provides a service where users can make donations to mod authors. Vortex, however, is a program that resides on your PC. Its job is to handle mods you download, either manually or via the program, and configures them so that your games can use them. Vortex never handles money. Let me remind you of the purpose of this forum, as shown on the forum page: "Discuss Vortex and give us your feedback. Let us know what you think of Vortex here, what you like, don't like, and what you'd like to see improved". In your first post, you discuss payment for mods, and the attribution of credit. These are Nexus functions, not Vortex functions. In your second, you en passant mention a structure for mod packs, but the rest of your post appears to be devoted to praising the virtues of mod packs. In your third significant post, you finally get to discuss the mechanics of mod packs. By all means, feel free to discuss mod packs; it's a discussion that, I fear, we'll have to have. However, please take this elsewhere. To conclude, I refer you to this article: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/articles/2037 After reading this, you may understand just why some mod authors have reservations about mod packs, and also why mod packs may not be as good for users, like you, as you expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetsuYorokai Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 Actually, The issue was about Vortex adding the ability to install mod packs. Since Vortex is the official Mod Organizer for the site that hosts all the mods. The discussion led to monetization and its role in copy rites. I'm not sure if you read my comments. But! I did, indeed, read your comments. However, in your first two posts in this thread, as they stand right now, you make NO mention of any technical issues involved with Vortex handling mod packs. I believe that you have a fundamental confusion regarding the Nexus, and Vortex. The Nexus is a website that hosts files. It offers a few premium services to members in exchange for money, and also provides a service where users can make donations to mod authors. Vortex, however, is a program that resides on your PC. Its job is to handle mods you download, either manually or via the program, and configures them so that your games can use them. Vortex never handles money. Let me remind you of the purpose of this forum, as shown on the forum page: "Discuss Vortex and give us your feedback. Let us know what you think of Vortex here, what you like, don't like, and what you'd like to see improved". In your first post, you discuss payment for mods, and the attribution of credit. These are Nexus functions, not Vortex functions. In your second, you en passant mention a structure for mod packs, but the rest of your post appears to be devoted to praising the virtues of mod packs. In your third significant post, you finally get to discuss the mechanics of mod packs. By all means, feel free to discuss mod packs; it's a discussion that, I fear, we'll have to have. However, please take this elsewhere. To conclude, I refer you to this article: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/articles/2037 After reading this, you may understand just why some mod authors have reservations about mod packs, and also why mod packs may not be as good for users, like you, as you expect. I understand that it may seem that I have skipped a beat, I apologize for not being thorough from the beginning. But I have seen and discussed this problem on said forums and have already run into the same issues. Regardless of how I start the conversation or where I wish it to go, it will always come back to the money issue. I came to the Vortex Forums to get the Vortex team to make this happen. As I said before, the design of the Mod and How finances will be handled go hand in hand and everyone drags the financial part out when you start discussing design. I feel this is an appropriate discussion which wholey involves Vortex. Even if Nexus disregards everything else with this subject. Vortex could still implement a system for others to use.Take our current conversation as an example of derailment. I came here to discuss Mod Packs that are handled by Vortex, not Mod Organizer or some other program, not Nexus. But To get VORTEX to make it happen. I started with the issue of monetization and recognition because of both, the post you referenced and my previous experience with other posts. Almost immediately, people start pointing out Mod Author's concerns. And it will continue to go there. HALF of the post you reference is discussing that issue alone. You missed my previous posts in other forums and sections where I discussed this. I want an easy place to find and have these discussions. BUT ONLY FOR VORTEX. I dont care about any other sites or programs. I would like to use vortex in this pursuit. This is only a discussion about Vortex putting Mod Pack capabilities in their next update. Nexus may be the funding side, but the main point here is getting it on VORTEX. IF Vortex implemented it, people could host their own packs and their own install scripts, or just install scripts, Nexus would not need to have a hand in it. So Vortex is the key, not Nexus. So I am here discussing why Vortex will not make this their next priority. And how can we convince the team to make it happen. Oh, wait, they have to get permission from their bosses, Nexus. Oh, wait, Nexus will be doing the funding. SO why not on Nexus forums? Because when anyone wonders if Vortex can DO Mod Packs, they look in the Vortex Forums. They only look in the Nexus Forums when they are looking for the actual Packs because Nexus hosts the mods not the install scripts for Mod packs. I think the problem here, is how you are looking at mod packs. You are looking at mod packs as a SINGLE download from one Author. Just like any normal mod. One page to rule them all! If the Mod Pack Author so chooses, they dont have to give credit or thanks or funding to any other Authors. And so, the issue would be best on Nexus Forums because the page will be on Nexus and so all of this will go on Nexus shoulders. But the solution is make the mod pack system in such a way that it makes all mod authors involved in the Mod Pack automatically included. So the solution is within the Vortex program, and not the Nexus website. In fact! Very little will change on the Nexus side. All Changes will have to be made in Vortex. So this discussion is one of Vortex and not Nexus, thus, it belongs here the the Vortex Discussion Forum and not the Nexus one. It is also an issue of download management which would be handled by Vortex and not Nexus. Nexus already has its systems done but Vortex does not. This could easily go in the suggestion Forums for Vortex, but because of the complexity of the subject a DISCUSSION is more appropriate rather than a simple suggestion. I mean, look at us, we have to have a discussion, about whether or not this discussion belongs to this forum's discussion! You two have barely discussed the actual issue at hand. Getting vortex to start working on adding this feature. So if I start a new Post, I would try starting it by addressing the previous points made in this and my other discussions, apparently including a defense for why I think the post belongs in that particular forum. Before the forum issue, the main concerns were monetization and authors. So I addressed those when I started this post. This discussion is not limited in its scope to just these things, but everything needed to make mod packs happen within Vortex. So again, I ask for help to get this pinned. If we need, we can get another post pinned on the Nexus Forums as well. ANYTHING to bring MORE attention to this subject, because I REALLY want to play skyrim VR Modded to high waters! But despite that this issue will bring SO many more people to the modding community. It will grow it fast because it simplitfies the process of adding mods to our favorite games and it allows us to consolidate our time as well. So instead of all humanity wasting a kadrillion combined man hours on modding our games a couple of curators can do so in a couple of hours and we can spend more of our time playing. If any one need any more arguments for this, look no further than beat saber. They have a very streamlined system going with packs included and authors are not left out! These concerns are relevant, but I believe people are looking for arguments rather than solutions to these problems due to a combination of arrogance, fear, and pride. If I am deleted tommarow because of the V, I will never have played something said to be truly remarkable just because no-one even wants to talk about it! Mod lists will be a thing for vortex.Mod lists will also be an issue for Mod Organiser, and any other mod manager that appears in the future, as well as for the sites that host mod packs, and those that hold the original mods. To say nothing, of course, of mod authors. Never-the-less, as I observed, mod packs are not a specifically Vortex issue. Further, given that the OP's comments did not refer to how mod managers will handle mod packs, but rather the distribution of money and credit (issues irrelevant to Vortex) I maintain that this thread does not belong on this discussion forum. Agree, plus it's not, nor ever has been "pinned" The title was made to get an Admins attention, so they WOULD pin it. Hence the HOPEFULLY. Please if any one can, I ask that this be pinned. Even if I rarely update it myself, I would like this to be a constantly discussed issue until it is implemented. If I get deleted tomorrow, I will have the regret of never having played SkyrimVR modded. Every time I get a chance to play VR, I am sad that I dont have the chance to play SkyrimVR. If anyone lives close to me, and would like to come and mod my game for me. I would be very happy! I'll pay you twenty dollars! and five every time it needs updated! PM for my general location! WRONG FORUM I do appreciate the fact that you are taking the time to read and respond. But a little more information would help and maybe some good arguments as to why. Both of you make me very happy to at least be able to start discussing this. Please help get this pinned here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanderat Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Are mod packs like Wabbajack? What a terrible idea. If (and I hope not) Nexus decides to go down that route, mod authors need to be given an opt out, as well as not allowing any monetization whatsoever, for this to have a prayer of working at all. Anyone else remember the STEAM paid mods fiasco and what it did to the whole modding community (not just on STEAM)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dferstat Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Are mod packs like Wabbajack? What a terrible idea. If (and I hope not) Nexus decides to go down that route, mod authors need to be given an opt out, as well as not allowing any monetization whatsoever, for this to have a prayer of working at all. Anyone else remember the STEAM paid mods fiasco and what it did to the whole modding community (not just on STEAM)?The team behind Creative Clutter has posted a short-form comment on the removal of this (and others of their mods) from Nexus: https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20782 For the long-form version, see: https://damanding.xyz/StatementOnModpacks.pdf If, as seems to be the current situation, Nexus is not allowing mod authors to opt out of mod packs, I suspect that more authors, especially those producing major projects, will leave the Nexus. Further, if mods on BethNet become similarly pillaged, I see very bad times ahead for the modding community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadToRegister Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 If, as seems to be the current situation, Nexus is not allowing mod authors to opt out of mod packs, I suspect that more authors, especially those producing major projects, will leave the Nexus. Further, if mods on BethNet become similarly pillaged, I see very bad times ahead for the modding community. Sadly, I don't think modders being able to opt out will prevent people who make modpacks from just taking the mod and putting it in the pack anyway. There's already a famous multimod pack that someone has made WITHOUT ANY Mod Author permission and has it up on Patreon and is making Mint off of other people's work. That person is basically the reason most mod authors are saying NO to mod packs, because they're already getting their mods stolen, and placed into mod packs against their wishes, while someone else makes money from them. This is why Mod Authors are against ModPacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AugustaCalidia Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) Vortex is and must remain a mod manager, not a mod pack packer and/or unpacker. Mod packs are a pandora's box out of which spring many unhappy surprises. I see no good for the modding community that would come from making Vortex complicit in this mod pack enterprise. Edited June 13, 2020 by AugustaCalidia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts