Time for ideas on TES VI

[TheNewAgeElvis]

Wait. This game is dead just because they're not releasing more material for it? Pretty sure Oblivion's not dead and that game hasn't gotten support in years. :P

[Urwy]

I'd love to see some improvements to the combat in future releases. =)

I'll shamelessly redirect you to my topic about this. It´s a game called Chivalry: Medieval warfare. It has some interesting combat mechanics. (seperate attacks: overhead slash, sideways swing, a low stab. Combined with directional dodging, feinting strikes and timed blocking among others)

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/979842-handling-swordfighting-an-example/&do=findComment&comment=7927452

 

While that game has (imho) awesome mechanics, they're impleented quite harshly in that game. But i definitely think Bethesda could use it as a good example.

[budcat]

Problem with slaughterhouse game is that in TES RPGS you typically expect levelling up to make a difference to your combat capabilities, if its a slaugtherhouse game for realism, no matter how strong someone is if they swing a 12lb mace at someones head destruction will always happen, how would they include a good levelling system along with such brutal combat realism, eh?

That's why I propose a radical change to the way RPGs and games in general have dealt with hits and damage.

 

I think "Health Points" needs to be dropped in favor of something like "Fate Points." Every single attack in the game should miss until the enemy's FP hits zero, then hits land and do realistic damage based on armor, location, etc. A real miss wouldn't have an effect on FP, but a "hit," while still animated as a miss, would lower their fate. Once they're FP zero they're "doomed" then it's hits and gore and mortality, etc. Health might still exist, because perhaps at FP zero you only swipe an arm. Fallout-style crippling injuries and poison-like bleeding could result, while a fatal hit is a fatal hit.

 

It no longer makes sense in modern games to hack something with blades watching fountains of blood rain down only to watch a tiny sliver of health drop off. It's time for a radical overhaul if any sense of realism is ever to be felt. I don't have a perfect implementation idea for this or anything, and who really cares what I think, but it's a thought I've had for a while.

Edited April 28, 2013 by budcat

[daventry]

Games today have become Lazy, because People prefer Auto Health instead of trying to Immerse themselves and Survive long enough to take a Health Potion.

 

I also find it Game Breaking where you are in the middle of a Heated Battle but you practically tell the Bad Guys "Time Out" just to go into your Inventory and eat a bunch of Food so you can get back to it again.

 

What should happen is, we must get our gear ready in the first place, then when we are in a Battle, theres no way to quickly open your Inventory for a Better Weapon or Magic Spell, you must Fight or Die.

 

Is there even such a Mod, well anyway, heres an Example in how many times you tell the Bad Guy to Wait when you are suppose to be the Hero.

 

[Vanadinit]

 

Problem with slaughterhouse game is that in TES RPGS you typically expect levelling up to make a difference to your combat capabilities, if its a slaugtherhouse game for realism, no matter how strong someone is if they swing a 12lb mace at someones head destruction will always happen, how would they include a good levelling system along with such brutal combat realism, eh?

That's why I propose a radical change to the way RPGs and games in general have dealt with hits and damage.

 

I think "Health Points" needs to be dropped in favor of something like "Fate Points." Every single attack in the game should miss until the enemy's FP hits zero, then hits land and do realistic damage based on armor, location, etc. A real miss wouldn't have an effect on FP, but a "hit," while still animated as a miss, would lower their fate. Once they're FP zero they're "doomed" then it's hits and gore and mortality, etc. Health might still exist, because perhaps at FP zero you only swipe an arm. Fallout-style crippling injuries and poison-like bleeding could result, while a fatal hit is a fatal hit.

 

It no longer makes sense in modern games to hack something with blades watching fountains of blood rain down only to watch a tiny sliver of health drop off. It's time for a radical overhaul if any sense of realism is ever to be felt. I don't have a perfect implementation idea for this or anything, and who really cares what I think, but it's a thought I've had for a while.

No way I want this type of system, one hit and you are dead that is fine for me. But all games where I can see that a claymore hit the torso of an enemy with 1/2 of the blade and cut trough it but because it was a non successful roll you will miss. That is in my eyes total outdated with the possibilities of a modern engine. Because of this system I hate every freaking D&D PC game. Also there are other things from the D&D system who I hate for PCs and I never will get it why it was used for games like NWN, Dragon Age , etc.

 

If you miss you will miss because the enemy dodged or because you don't have the experience for this weapon. And for that action it should be correctly animated.

And don't forget TES is not a RPG who work with many dices unlike many others who you don't play in first person. It would be for me a total game breaking view and play style if the game shows you a animation for a decapitating hit but because of your fate system it only lower the fate points who you must also shown/read in a box instead of animation of a critical hit to the head who kills the enemy because you was in range with your weapon and the enemy doesn't dodged without any windows and numbers.

 

And yeah I also don't like it that to much new games just use auto healing. My favorite games don't use it and if you can deactivate it.

In my opinion the skill system of Skyrim is not that bad but it is to light and not really deep. The perk system on the other hand need really a helping hand. I am not a fan of perks (also a thing why I dislike D&D PC) but the thing how skyrim manage them is a thing who I like that you need first the skill lvl for something who you actual used to get the skill lvl up where you have it right now. Now if they make it harder to get some skills, must do also other things to lvl a skill. Include skills with a lvl of xx cant be skilled up with some easy stuff like smithing a freaking leather helmet or iron dagger. And not only for the blacksmith skill and perk system, for everything.

I also would include that now you can not learn a perk by yourself. Get the requirements like perks you must have it for the next one or perks form 3 different trees and the Skill level for it and then get it from a NPC trainer for gold or read a book like you can raise your skills.

[budcat]

It sounds to me like you're just envisioning it as horribly as possible.

I don't think it should have dice rolls, I think what was a good hit should be a good hit. And if the combat system and animations could be designed so you'd never be in a situation where you'd score a decapitation but it'd say you missed, etc. The enemy could always block just in time, but still lose "health." It can be implemented in a way that the player never notices, never feels cheated, etc. The whole idea was to prevent that.

And an FP HUD is no different than an HP HUD.

I don't know. I don't think a one-hit kills you and one-hit kills them system is good at all, but I also don't want to just have to hit somebody twenty-five times, so either health goes or hits go, unless you introduce a new third variable. Maybe my idea sucks, but there needs to be some outside the box thinking on this or it will always look stupid one way or the other.

Edited April 30, 2013 by budcat

[TheNewAgeElvis]

Don't know why the melee mechanic needs to be much different than the average boxing fight: you need to block, and you need to block often, because an unprotected hit from a strong opponent has a chance of knocking you down no matter how strong you are. Just give the AI the willingness to block more often, and make blocking something that can be done much more quickly so it becomes more practical for stopping or parrying attacks, but at a stamina cost that incrementally reduces the effectiveness as a block as the stamina declines.

 

That is, if you're fresh, blocking a strong attack is quite practical even if you're weak, at the cost of a great deal of stamina. Doesn't matter how strong you are; a steel sword doesn't cut through another steel sword. However, when that stamina isn't enough to stop the attack, your block breaks. Broken blocks are still more effective at stopping damage than just running into something headlong, but aren't practical as a means to stave off damage if you're not encased in armor.

 

For two-handed weapons, give them an improved chance of parrying an enemy attack when blocking. Anyone who's familiar with Medieval history will tell you that a Katana is a far better defensive weapon than your average arming sword.

 

But this way, the health system stays: health still absorbs damage and one hit isn't going to be fatal unless it's a super-critical or whatever. It's just not a lone answer to enemy attacks.

[Bloodinfested]

Probably one thing that really bothers me on tes games is the lowest detonator of hardware consoles is the set limit for the developers. It be great if they did separate for PC but I can understand that for development time its just not practical for any game company to do this.

 

The big thing for me would be I would like them to work on more randomization on how the quests are handled, skyrim is a big improvement over its predecessors... but for example if there was 15 possibilities for one quest is given with different dialog options per race that makes the replay value quite interesting.

 

Playing as an Khajiit they are regarded as outcasts but the city guards seem to forget what race you are they must of took an arrow to the head as well as your response dialog, its little things like that for me that add a lot to a game.

 

Putting back repairing your weapons and armors is a must on my list I can never understand their logic on taking that out for skyrim.

 

I know beth looks at the more popular mods to possibly implement into their next game kind of like whoever made the picking plants changing its mesh so it looked like you picked it in oblivion... hopefully they end up picking some good ones next go around.

[daventry]

I agree with you :)

Edited May 7, 2013 by daventry

[revben]

The Elder Scrolls VI

My Roadmap

Revi’s Vision

 

Introduction

The Elder Scrolls Skyrim is the pinnacle of success for Bethesda Games Studios. Whether one would want to admit or not, Skyrim has put Bethesda at the top of the gaming world and the only place they can go from there is down. Yet, some people believe that if you dream big enough, you can reach the heavens. This is my vision of what the Elder Scrolls VI can do to reach the stars.

 

The Must Haves

Major

1. A completely open world
2. At least 150 hours of questing
3. A great story
4. A great faction system
5. A great combat system
6. Consequences for the player’s actions
7. A dynamic AI system

Minor

1. An hardcore mode
2. An informative quest journal
3. An improved scaling system
4. Spell making
5. Improved crafting and smithing systems

 

I will focusing on questing in this piece. Now it might sound as if I am only going to address one of the twelve points I have listed, however, it is important to note that questing incorporates many aspects of what will make a good Elder Scrolls game.

 

Though it would be nice to have everything a player would want in the game world, however, it takes time to create all the resources that are needed to give the player all they want. Therefore, for a game like the Elders Scrolls, a more innovative way has to be found to use assets. If that can be overcome, then engaging quests can be created with minimum amount of assets.

 

It is about using simple tools to make complex things. Like in Mindcraft, there are only a few elements, yet those elements can be combine to make the most spectacular structures. Let us looks at an example of this using some simple words. I could say “He died spectacularly”. However, “spectacular” would become an asset that will become immediately obvious if it is used too often. If we were to say “His death left an impact that will never be forgotten”. We have said his death was spectacular, but in a different way. Now we could use those words again like “He will never be forgotten” or “He left with death and his impact will never be forgotten”. Using simple assets, but saying much with them.

Now unto the questing. The questing will consist of four components; the main quests, the faction quests, the major quests and the miscellaneous quests. It is pertinent that the majority of the questing be compose of the main quests and the faction quests. Not in quantity, but in quality.

Before we get into the questing we need to think about consequences. Freedom is the most important component of the Elder Scrolls series; consequences is the direct antagonist of freedom. It will be a struggle to get them working together. Let us explore some options.

Faction Benefactor/Weakness

 

We can use the player’s faction alliance to make parts of the main quest harder or easier. This could be done for each of the four major guilds. This means that four of the events in the main quest will be affected by this. Let us illustrate this will the use of an example for the Mage Guild. Suppose the quest calls for the use of staff to stop an Oblivion gate from opening, these options could be available:

• Normal quest: If the player is in no guild, the player has to find the staff in dangerous dungeon. In the dungeon the player has to use a special item to get the staff which will then be destroyed. After they find the staff, the player has to go to the Mage Guild for the staff to be unlock and then it can be used to close the Oblivion gate.
• Faction Benefactor quest: If the player is a full member of the Mage Guild, the player will be given an option to seek the help of someone in the Mage Guild. If they get the help of someone in the Mage Guild to help, they would get to keep the special item. They would complete the quest as usual.
• Faction Weakness quest: If the player is a full member of any other guild, they would complete the quest as usual, however, when they seek the help of the Mage Guild, they will have to jump through loops to get them to help. The degree to which the player has to jump through loops depend on the guild and the association the Mage Guild has with it.

I believe this is a good way to provide consequences without removing freedom. The player will still be free to complete that main quest, but the options available will be vastly different based on guild association.

 

Faction Tear System

Another way to provide consequences without removing freedom would be to have a Faction Tear System. Let us say that in order to join the Thieve Guild, the player has to have one of the skills associated with thieving be at least level 20. If that player wants to join the Mage Guild, one of the mage skill has to be at least level 40. If they want to join the Fighters Guild, then an associated skill has to be at least level 60 etc. It simple means that an additional 20 levels has to be added to a skill for the player to join an additional guild. This provides consequences to joining a guild while still allowing the player to join all the guilds they want.

Faction Entry Requirement

 

Another way to preserve freedom while providing consequence is to provide additional task that the player has to do in order to join a guild if they are coming from an additional guild.

 

Death Is Not Free

Another way to provide for consequence would be through death. However, this would be totally optional. A level could be created that gets more complex as the player dies. The player would have to fight through the level to regain their life. This would be reserve for the players who wanted a challenge and would be automatic in the hardcore mode

 

Quest Design

There are two ways to create unique quests; through the story or through quest mechanics. For a game like the Elder Scrolls VI, with so hours of gameplay, it would be impossible to create unique quests on mechanics alone. Therefore it is very important that unique quests be created with supreme quest stories and creative recycle of simple mechanics to make complex mechanics that keeps the gameplay fresh.

Let us examine the possible basic quest design structure.

 

Fetch Quest:

This is bare essential of an RPG game. However, these quests has to be upgraded to take them out of the realm of time lapse and into essential questing. One of the ways to make fetch quest more interesting is to employ the use of a narrator. This narrator could narrate various stages of the quest giving the player more information on the item and its owner. This could make the quest more interesting without the use of additional mechanics or a complex story arc. This narrator could be employed for each quest or not. In this same mode, the player could be given more information about the item besides the dialog with the NPC through the quest journal, thus the player will come to care for the fetch quest.

 

Another way to make fetch unique and interest would be to create awesome dungeons for the items. This is not about creating different assets, but rather these dungeons should be like mazes that could be easily created with the assets that have already been created. These mazes will have a fail option if the player cannot complete it. These dungeons do not have to be mazes, but very complex with the assets that has been already created. There will be no quest makers assist the player. However, for the maze and the complex dungeon, the player will be given an option to return to the over world. The player will able to return to the dungeon as many times as they desire. With this method, there is no need for must story in fetch quests nor the need for complex mechanics. However, the player will be interested in completing the dungeons as it is a challenge. NB, this method of complex dungeons could be mix up with simple dungeons for the major quest events.

 

Another way to make fetch interesting to give the player benefits besides items and septim. For instance, the player could get 10% off all the item from a shopkeeper. Another benefit, though more complex, would be for the NPC to help the player in certain major quest events. This would be random, but it would not affect the main quest arc nor the faction quest arcs.

It is important to get fetch quest right. If this occurs, it would easy to iterate content into the game without those quests being uninteresting.