Trying to understand

[Gruffydd]

 

...

I fully understand that. I also fully understand why they want to change that and only time will tell if it was a good or bad decision. I just don't like when people list everything like it's all doom and gloom like that guy saying that something becoming more popular/mainstream brings no benefits at all only negatives.. There are reasons why they are doing this in such a way and I agree with their reasons. Nobody here is right or wrong, we'll have to see what happens.

 

 

That "some guy" was me. And that's not what I said. There are benefits to mods going mainstream but they aren't for the majority of mod authors. They benefit people using mods and companies exploiting mods for their own purposes/profits, and possibly a very small fraction of mod authors who may get invited to the "other side" like the authors who are working for Creation Club. Any hobby going mainstream rarely benefits the amateur hobbyist who was previously enjoying the hobby, with the exception of greater availability of tools.

But mods going mainstream isn't even a real part of the discussion here, because it's a wishful thinking hope rather than an actual verifiable consequence of what's going on here and now.

 

There are reasons why the Nexus is doing this and the choices they made. But those reasons are for the benefit of the Nexus, by providing a new (income-generating through increased site traffic/subscriptions) service to the average mod user. They are at the expense of mod authors and knowingly so (go read some of their posts), although there are many authors who do not mind giving up what they are being told to give up. Basically, everyone benefits from the current situation except for the mod authors who don't want to give up their rights to support the new business model, or who have other concerns with how the situation is being handled.

[MarchinBunny]

 

I specifically mentioned that as a counter-point to what you were claiming. I don't bother reading thru your complete word salads any more, as you are basically stating the same thing over and over again, maybe in a slightly different way.

 

 

And where are the examples of game companies that DON'T grant ownership of mods to their authors? I note you didn't answer that part.

 

If you don't read my posts, don't respond. Seriously. It just wastes everyone's time because you end up making comments that don't apply to what I said.

Nor am I going to go on some sort of goose chase and look through everyone's ToS just to try and show you some companies don't give you ownership like BGS does. It's certainly possible more companies don't do that anymore, but my point was many in the past wouldn't normally give you ownership like that for content made for their game using their assets and tools.

 

Also, we are talking about things we have not even spoke about. But sure, I am just stating the same thing over and over again. Says the person who can't be bothered to read. >.>

[frontaldnd]

 

 

...

I fully understand that. I also fully understand why they want to change that and only time will tell if it was a good or bad decision. I just don't like when people list everything like it's all doom and gloom like that guy saying that something becoming more popular/mainstream brings no benefits at all only negatives.. There are reasons why they are doing this in such a way and I agree with their reasons. Nobody here is right or wrong, we'll have to see what happens.

 

 

That "some guy" was me. And that's not what I said. There are benefits to mods going mainstream but they aren't for the majority of mod authors. They benefit people using mods and companies exploiting mods for their own purposes/profits, and possibly a very small fraction of mod authors who may get invited to the "other side" like the authors who are working for Creation Club. Any hobby going mainstream rarely benefits the amateur hobbyist who was previously enjoying the hobby, with the exception of greater availability of tools.

But mods going mainstream isn't even a real part of the discussion here, because it's a wishful thinking hope rather than an actual verifiable consequence of what's going on here and now.

 

There are reasons why the Nexus is doing this and the choices they made. But those reasons are for the benefit of the Nexus, by providing a new (income-generating through increased site traffic/subscriptions) service to the average mod user. They are at the expense of mod authors and knowingly so (go read some of their posts), although there are many authors who do not mind giving up what they are being told to give up. Basically, everyone benefits from the current situation except for the mod authors who don't want to give up their rights to support the new business model, or who have other concerns with how the situation is being handled.

 

I can respect that. I understand why some people wouldn't like it, but as long as you see how this benefits a lot of other people it was a good talk. I don't expect people to change their minds or to support nexus' decision. I'm just putting my opinion on the matter out there even tho some people portray it as attacking mod creators, it's nothing like that. I really like the idea of properly moderated and curated "modlists" that might open a new age of modding for the masses and despite our divergent views on it I do believe popularizing modding can bring lots of benefits to everyone involved, including mod creators of every kind.

 

Pretty sure everyone here wants to see the modding community grow even if our views on how it should be done are different :D

[LeelooMinai]

 

 

6. It increases the possibility of your mod being noticed as it may end up being included in a collection which may lead to many users learning about your mod where as before it was under the radar. There are tons of amazing mods that just sometimes never get the attention they deserve. Collections just add another layer that can create a great opportunity for such cases.

No, it increases the possibility that the user doesn't even know they're using that mod, since they installed a Collection based on its overall hype and didn't even bother to read which mods are included before pressing their one-button-install. Given that many users don't even bother to read a mod's description, comments section, bug reports, or readme files before installing (and then complaining to the author that it's "broken"), I give this a very high probability.

 

 

This here is such a good point.

 

I just saw the other day someone saying in the USSEP comment section that USSEP breaks Alternative Start.....

 

Collections just mean people know even lesser from whom they have mods. They never need to go on the mod page, and they won't. Because they will install a list, and when they like something in game, they wouldnt even know which mod makes that.

 

So many points from people here that are pro "take away deletion" for the "greater good" seriously dont see how many holes their arguments actually have. But we are the ones that search for negatives.....sigh....

 

-_-

[Gruffydd]

 

All you quoting ownership terms of use and such I too can do that if you want to go this way on the discussion.

 

 

By submitting content to our services, you are granting an infinite, non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free license for Nexus Mods to store, distribute, copy or reproduce, edit, translate, reformat, publicly display, or perform the submitted content, at our discretion.

 

 

If you were actually here for more than a minute, you'd have seen the endless threads on this very topic.

You are not adding anything, you are rehashing what has been gone over ad nauseum over and over before.

Do all of us a favor, and go read the past threads. I'm sick of having to provide the same links over and over to people who don't know the history, haven't done the research, and refuse to accept what's documented fact.

 

Edit: Sorry for pulling the veterancy card, as you put it, but really, there are HUNDREDS of pages on this topic across many threads in many forums. Each time, it's someone new with their "brand new" ideas about how mod authors don't really own their mods and how copyright isn't a thing, and then we spend ages providing factual link while they go on and on about their personal opinions on the matter having more weight than actual documented fact. It's not specifically you. You're just the latest in a LONG LINE of people restarting this same discussion.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Gruffydd

[frontaldnd]

 

 

All you quoting ownership terms of use and such I too can do that if you want to go this way on the discussion.

 

 

By submitting content to our services, you are granting an infinite, non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free license for Nexus Mods to store, distribute, copy or reproduce, edit, translate, reformat, publicly display, or perform the submitted content, at our discretion.

 

 

If you were actually here for more than a minute, you'd have seen the endless threads on this very topic.

You are not adding anything, you are rehashing what has been gone over ad nauseum over and over before.

Do all of us a favor, and go read the past threads. I'm sick of having to provide the same links over and over to people who don't know the history, haven't done the research, and refuse to accept what's documented fact.

 

I know it's nothing new. It's just that people started bringing up terms of use and eulas to prove their point on ownership once again like always and then the same reply (as always was used) once you upload it here you allow nexus to do what it wants with it. It might not have been enforced before, but it will be now. If you don't want the same things repeated over and over tell the guys bringing it up again and again to stop it.

[LeelooMinai]

 

 

All you quoting ownership terms of use and such I too can do that if you want to go this way on the discussion.

 

 

By submitting content to our services, you are granting an infinite, non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free license for Nexus Mods to store, distribute, copy or reproduce, edit, translate, reformat, publicly display, or perform the submitted content, at our discretion.

 

 

If you were actually here for more than a minute, you'd have seen the endless threads on this very topic.

You are not adding anything, you are rehashing what has been gone over ad nauseum over and over before.

Do all of us a favor, and go read the past threads. I'm sick of having to provide the same links over and over to people who don't know the history, haven't done the research, and refuse to accept what's documented fact.

 

[LeelooMinai]

 

 

 

All you quoting ownership terms of use and such I too can do that if you want to go this way on the discussion.

 

 

By submitting content to our services, you are granting an infinite, non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free license for Nexus Mods to store, distribute, copy or reproduce, edit, translate, reformat, publicly display, or perform the submitted content, at our discretion.

 

 

If you were actually here for more than a minute, you'd have seen the endless threads on this very topic.

You are not adding anything, you are rehashing what has been gone over ad nauseum over and over before.

Do all of us a favor, and go read the past threads. I'm sick of having to provide the same links over and over to people who don't know the history, haven't done the research, and refuse to accept what's documented fact.

 

I know it's nothing new. It's just that people started bringing up terms of use and eulas to prove their point on ownership once again like always and then the same reply (as always was used) once you upload it here you allow nexus to do what it wants with it. It might not have been enforced before, but it will be now. If you don't want the same things repeated over and over tell the guys bringing it up again and again to stop it.

 

[MarchinBunny]

 

1. It's going to bring way more people into modding, meaning more endorsements, more downloads, possibly more donations.

Endorsements and downloads are fun stats, but meaningless. Donations are rare enough as to be nonexistent. Donation points are a dribble at best for the vast majority of mod authors.

More users does not directly benefit mod authors. It does directly benefit NexusMods.

2. It will introduce a lot of people into modding and some of those individual may become curious and start creating mods themselves.

This also does not benefit current mod authors in any way. It does directly benefit NexusMods.

3. You have fewer people trying to mod manually, and as such you end up having fewer people with problems with their load order due to not knowing what they are doing. This means, mod authors are less likely to have to deal with users who don't know what they are doing. This is even more true if problems that do occur are directed at the curators ... which from my understanding is how Nexus is going about it.

Maybe. I personally didn't have very many people reporting load order problems. In fact, I can't remember the last time I did.

4. Collections create more opportunities and idea that may have not been thought up before, and may lead to joint projects by authors to create something even better.

Wishful thinking. I don't see the causal relationship there.

5. Collections incentivize mods playing nice together, and it becomes way more beneficial to make sure mods are as compatible as can be.

It's not the obligation of mod authors to try to make mods "play nice together". Mods will conflict. Always have. Always will. You're modifying game code. If two people modify the same code, there's conflict. Expecting authors to somehow coordinate with all other authors to make the mods "play nice together" is unrealistic at best.

6. It increases the possibility of your mod being noticed as it may end up being included in a collection which may lead to many users learning about your mod where as before it was under the radar. There are tons of amazing mods that just sometimes never get the attention they deserve. Collections just add another layer that can create a great opportunity for such cases.

No, it increases the possibility that the user doesn't even know they're using that mod, since they installed a Collection based on its overall hype and didn't even bother to read which mods are included before pressing their one-button-install. Given that many users don't even bother to read a mod's description, comments section, bug reports, or readme files before installing (and then complaining to the author that it's "broken"), I give this a very high probability.

 

1. More is still better even if it's just a small increase. I don't think anyone would say no to more downloads, more endorsements or donations. To say this doesn't benefit mod authors is a total lie as those things are literally benefits.

2. It actually does, because the more mod authors there are the more opportunities there are to work together with other authors or learn from them, or share feedback, etc. It's rare for any mod author to have never learned anything from other authors. In fact, this applies across the board for any creative process.

3. Well, I have seen many authors complain about things like that, so it happening less will for sure benefit them as it means not having to deal with it.

4. As an artist and creator myself, it's not wishful thinking at all. It's just an inevitability when you have more minds creating things and sharing similar passions.

5. I never said it was an obligation, I said it creates an incentive to do so.

6. You obviously have never played modded minecraft where there are even packs that specifically are designed to show off underrated mods, and many of which brought certain mod authors to the limelight. While users may not know how to mod manually, it doesn't mean they are stupid and don't look up the mods they enjoy. Which isn't just users, some of those who may find your mod may even be someone with a lot of followers on youtube and may bring notice to your mod in a collection that they never saw but love. You can't tell me things like this don't happen because they do.

[showler]

Now that we've been reduced to posting gifs, even I'm in favour of closing this thread.