Is Bethesda Trying to Kill Modding Community?

[Guest deleted34304850]

the bethesda updates can screw a modded game and it can be a nightmare if you are not experienced but you like to mod. this is not a single experience of a lonely player but it is definitely a problem for many modders and players. it also happened to me that i went in that update trap since this is a default setting. not a big problem if you know what to do, if you have a backup and if you know the dependencies. I`m sure there are a lot of people with modded games who leave skyrim gameplay frustrated and never touch the game again - that is sad.

the mod destroying character of updates is an annoyance since script extenders exist and the mod dependency exists even if nobody asked for the upadate. it seems that is the price we have to pay for modding with extender since nobody has found a final solution to update the game without breaking mods before patch release.

as with any software, not just games but any software in existence - its entirely YOUR responsibility to make sure that you are not impacted negatively by updates either added, or missed.

the software developer cares only for their code because that's all they can change.

as a result - there's no consideration made to any external programs that may depend on the code that has changed.

 

a fundamental part of software management is reducing, minimising or hopefully removing all possibility of disruption once software has been updated.

no-one said its easy - as each system is different, but its up to YOU to understand how your environment works, and take all steps necessary to make sure you're unaffected.

 

updates are part of software. have been since the first program was written. if you, or any user can't deal with that, that's not the software developer's problem.

[xrayy]

you make good points but indirectly you support my point of view.

i know all that but you should not teach this the one or two % who can deal with the problem but leaving all the others suffering in the dust with your responsibility verses. who wants to sell a game and how long? skyrim is still popular just because of modding content - maybe just my opinion - and not because of fishing or creation club content.

i just want to warn to take this topic serious and make aware - and all you do is to play teacher until modded and permanently updated skyrim is dead ? if that is your goal go on and preach your verses nobody is interested in until you are alone with your vanilla console skyrim or whatever. i think you are unable or not willing to understand the common mod user who just want to play his modded game without interruption dictated or forced by anyone else.

just one question at the end: was the AE-content worth the hassle ? my simple answer: no and for nobody. and this was foreseeable - at least for me.

and no, i will not buy a third - drm free version of skyrim just to let anyone make money with a game i own already two times, but still not free to decide the timing of the forced updates (thanks to drm) or to rollback as this always should have been for all who payed for that game.

and thank you for the nice debate which shows that there are people who just want to play their modded games without being ruled by updates and a crashing game and others who defend rediculous methods to make the user update dependent and ruled by someone else. putin would be proud...

[showler]

was the AE-content worth the hassle ? my simple answer: no and for nobody.

Bull. CC content is literally the only way a user on a Playstation console can get any content like this whatsoever.

 

For that alone it was worth it.

 

PC users and the portion of them that actually use affected mods have no right to tell the Playstation users that they have no value because they are an inconvenience to us.

 

And it is my opinion that if anyone ever convinces Bethesda that the Script Extenders are enough of an issue to affect their patching process for their games, they will simply ban the Script Extenders from existing because that will be the most beneficial result for them.

 

It seems like a simple concept that you don't complain incessantly to a company that their support process is interfering with you hacking their game engine.

[Guest deleted34304850]

you make good points but indirectly you support my point of view.

i know all that but you should not teach this the one or two % who can deal with the problem but leaving all the others suffering in the dust with your responsibility verses. who wants to sell a game and how long? skyrim is still popular just because of modding content - maybe just my opinion - and not because of fishing or creation club content.

i just want to warn to take this topic serious and make aware - and all you do is to play teacher until modded and permanently updated skyrim is dead ? if that is your goal go on and preach your verses nobody is interested in until you are alone with your vanilla console skyrim or whatever. i think you are unable or not willing to understand the common mod user who just want to play his modded game without interruption dictated or forced by anyone else.

just one question at the end: was the AE-content worth the hassle ? my simple answer: no and for nobody. and this was foreseeable - at least for me.

and no, i will not buy a third - drm free version of skyrim just to let anyone make money with a game i own already two times, but still not free to decide the timing of the forced updates (thanks to drm) or to rollback as this always should have been for all who payed for that game.

and thank you for the nice debate which shows that there are people who just want to play their modded games without being ruled by updates and a crashing game and others who defend rediculous methods to make the user update dependent and ruled by someone else. putin would be proud...

if i'm a less technical user am i going to be immersing myself into script extenders and the likes? almost certainly not.

the number of users of extenders compared to non-modded games is very, very small, almost small enough to not matter.

if i'm a software developer and i push out updates to my code, i'm not going to care for the small percentage of affected users. i care for the vast majority who will update with no impact.

 

if i'm a modder who is less technical and i get exenders and such and my game breaks, the lesson i learn is - i don't know how to fix what is broken, so i'll either walk away, or i'll wipe it out and reinstall it and go no further.

 

the very vocal minority don't matter as much as you think.

[xrayy]

 

you make good points but indirectly you support my point of view.

i know all that but you should not teach this the one or two % who can deal with the problem but leaving all the others suffering in the dust with your responsibility verses. who wants to sell a game and how long? skyrim is still popular just because of modding content - maybe just my opinion - and not because of fishing or creation club content.

i just want to warn to take this topic serious and make aware - and all you do is to play teacher until modded and permanently updated skyrim is dead ? if that is your goal go on and preach your verses nobody is interested in until you are alone with your vanilla console skyrim or whatever. i think you are unable or not willing to understand the common mod user who just want to play his modded game without interruption dictated or forced by anyone else.

just one question at the end: was the AE-content worth the hassle ? my simple answer: no and for nobody. and this was foreseeable - at least for me.

and no, i will not buy a third - drm free version of skyrim just to let anyone make money with a game i own already two times, but still not free to decide the timing of the forced updates (thanks to drm) or to rollback as this always should have been for all who payed for that game.

and thank you for the nice debate which shows that there are people who just want to play their modded games without being ruled by updates and a crashing game and others who defend rediculous methods to make the user update dependent and ruled by someone else. putin would be proud...

if i'm a less technical user am i going to be immersing myself into script extenders and the likes? almost certainly not.

the number of users of extenders compared to non-modded games is very, very small, almost small enough to not matter.

if i'm a software developer and i push out updates to my code, i'm not going to care for the small percentage of affected users. i care for the vast majority who will update with no impact.

 

if i'm a modder who is less technical and i get exenders and such and my game breaks, the lesson i learn is - i don't know how to fix what is broken, so i'll either walk away, or i'll wipe it out and reinstall it and go no further.

 

the very vocal minority don't matter as much as you think.

 

it is not the question how many gamers are frustrated but i'm sure many more after all the 1.6.x.x updates. the question is how long do gamers tolerate this kind of annoyance and how many at all. it does not matter

what you or i think. it matters that this may lead in long term to pure frustration as it already did for a decade just not in such short and frustrating intervals and mandatory breaks. you can play the number of victims down but only if you ignore you tube and the many thankful users (for temporary downgrade) who just want to play their skyrim with their beloved mods. if the game ctd just because of an incompatible skse mod and all the dependencies it is just pure frustration an nothing helps until the mod and skse is fixed. only if you are experienced you know how to avoid such a scenario. at least i know. all others are caught in the still for no reason existing "forced update trap". for me it's just a rediculous stupid drm trap for no reason.

[Guest deleted34304850]

it is not the question how many gamers are frustrated but i'm sure many more after all the 1.6.x.x updates. the question is how long do gamers tolerate this kind of annoyance and how many at all. it does not matter what you or i think. it matters that this may lead in long term to pure frustration as it already did for a decade just not in such short and frustrating intervals.

i tried, but i simply cannot understand your argument.

 

how long will "gamers" "tolerate" - its been going on since the first computer program, because thats the nature of the beast, so based on evidence (you should try this instead of simply plucking something out your ass and talking like you're the spokesman for an entitled generation), and i guess the answer is - they'll tolerate it forever - otherwise we'd still be playing Pong on black and white tv's.

 

i think you just want an argument - i personally find that boring, especially when the 'opponent' doesn't want to read and learn and exists simply to be polemic.and you'll notice i completely ignored the absolute clap-trap where you try to conflate software updates with putin. that's some next level bullshit which alerted me to put you in the same box with heyyou and the other contrarians that pollute this place. well done on that badge of honor, imagine hitting that level in the debate class.

[showler]

I think xrayy seriously overestimates the number of people affected (which is just a percentage of a percentage of a percentage) and seriously underestimates the number of users who take it calmly ("Skyrim updated? Well, I guess I'll have to wait a couple of days to play again. I'll just play game X in the meantime.") Running around crying that the sky is falling is not the typical reaction to having to wait for mods to update.

 

For most people who use Vortex or MO2, waiting a few days and then having the mod manager search for updated mods will fix a lot of your problems.

 

And if you have mods that consistently don't update, or only update on Patreon and hold off their Nexus release so they can get more money? Stop using those mods.

[xrayy]

I think xrayy seriously overestimates the number of people affected (which is just a percentage of a percentage of a percentage) and seriously underestimates the number of users who take it calmly ("Skyrim updated? Well, I guess I'll have to wait a couple of days to play again. I'll just play game X in the meantime.") Running around crying that the sky is falling is not the typical reaction to having to wait for mods to update.

 

For most people who use Vortex or MO2, waiting a few days and then having the mod manager search for updated mods will fix a lot of your problems.

 

And if you have mods that consistently don't update, or only update on Patreon and hold off their Nexus release so they can get more money? Stop using those mods.

we are on pc mod site here and the related community and i don't know why i should talk about consoles. the problems have to be solved for pc players and they are severe. any other discussion is just stupid or off topic and i ignore it. why do i have to care for xbox community ? do they care for us ? am i in the wrong forum with a new focus ? is skse just a small footnote or on your ignore list? in best case you never used mo2 or vortex in worst case you don't know what you are talking about at all if you think the nightmare ends after a few days. nobody would complain if we talk about a few days. but even this is a joke as long as you can not stop a forced update and avoid a forced break.

[showler]

Because EVERY DECISION BETHESDA MAKES HAS TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHAT IS BEST FOR THEIR CONSOLE PLAYERS, WHO ACTUALLY MAKE UP THE MAJORITY OF THEIR CUSTOMERS.

 

If you discuss this without thinking about the consoles, then you are not actually discussing reality.

 

If all you want to do is complain about the poor PC players being hard done by Bethesda without actually thinking about the reality of operating a business then you are free to do so. But despite the memes, you can't actually "reject their reality and substitute your own".

[HeyYou]

 

I think xrayy seriously overestimates the number of people affected (which is just a percentage of a percentage of a percentage) and seriously underestimates the number of users who take it calmly ("Skyrim updated? Well, I guess I'll have to wait a couple of days to play again. I'll just play game X in the meantime.") Running around crying that the sky is falling is not the typical reaction to having to wait for mods to update.

 

For most people who use Vortex or MO2, waiting a few days and then having the mod manager search for updated mods will fix a lot of your problems.

 

And if you have mods that consistently don't update, or only update on Patreon and hold off their Nexus release so they can get more money? Stop using those mods.

we are on pc mod site here and the related community and i don't know why i should talk about consoles. the problems have to be solved for pc players and they are severe. any other discussion is just stupid or off topic and i ignore it. why do i have to care for xbox community ? do they care for us ? am i in the wrong forum with a new focus ? is skse just a small footnote or on your ignore list? in best case you never used mo2 or vortex in worst case you don't know what you are talking about at all if you think the nightmare ends after a few days. nobody would complain if we talk about a few days. but even this is a joke as long as you can not stop a forced update and avoid a forced break.

 

While I agree with you for the most part, the trouble we run into is, PC players in general are less than 33% of of Beth's players. The console crowd makes up the vast majority of their customers. The updates that beth keeps kicking out are more for the console players benefit, than the pc players.... As the console players CAN'T use a script extender, these updates have far less impact on them, than it does the PC master race. But, not even every PC player uses a script extender..... Quite likely less than 10%.... (WAG there....) Have a look at how many unique downloads even the most popular extender plugins get..... and it rather nicely illustrates the point. So, beth points their efforts where there is likely to be more revenue.... the console players. The small percentage of pc players that use the script extenders... well, we simply don't matter. We could ALL stop buying beth games, and beth wouldn't even notice....