Quick updates to the site, money money money edition

[HadToRegister]

In response to post #24608319. #24608409, #24608934, #24609194, #24609304, #24609334, #24609429, #24609489 are all replies on the same post.

XxTOXIICxKiNGxX wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: The sad truth?

XxTOXIICxKiNGxX wrote: Yes, the sad truth. You have somebody who is stuck in the middle of all of this and is now parading as a white knight for free modding and yet he is directly profiting off all of this madness. It's not a major profit by any means, it's actually only 1-5% depending on the mods selected service providers but it's still a profit. Nexus is definitely the lowest on the totem poll of people to blame in all of this but they are still on there.

Service Providers:
-Blender Foundation
-Mod Configuration Menu
-Nexus Mods
-AFK Mods
-Polycount

Why are FNIS & SKSE among many others, not listed as service providers?
These are the two biggest modding frameworks in the entire community and they are not making any profits whatsoever. It's upsetting that a hosting provider is making money before the actual creators are.

Feel free to read Dark0ne's reply on Reddit:

XxTOXIICxKiNGxX wrote: Also how about TES5Edit, Mod Organizer, Wrye Bash, BOSS/LOOT, Texture Pack Combiner and the various hair and body mods? CBBE & UNP among many more are crucial pieces to every single follower mod out there.

bigdeano89 wrote: Go back and reread Dark0nes post on Cheskos reddit post before you go blabbing about ethics please. I am honestly getting more annoyed at you people immediately jumping on misinformation to attack Nexus with. Its a DONATION that mod authors can CHOOSE to give between 1 and 5% to Nexus as a thank you for this site helping build said mod and author. It isnt mandatory, nor is Nexus making profit on it. Its exactly the same as though we donated to them here.

erlkonnig1 wrote: It's a donation. It's a way for a modder to give back to the community that helped foster his work. Nexus isn't profiting off of this any more than if the modder in question just decided to donate a portion of his earnings to the site instead of having Valve do it on his behalf.

Unless a modder requests it, the Nexus gets nothing. This is hardly a case of Valve's hand in the Nexus' wallet.

JoeyLock wrote: 1-3% cut isn't exactly going to be millions mate.

bigdeano89 wrote: Thank you, someone who actually knows whats going on erl. Dark0ne seriously just needs to post an update explaining this so we can stop constantly defending him from Cheskos obnoxious tantrum.

" XxTOXIICxKiNGxX
The sad truth behind all of the madness is that Nexus is profiting from all of this in one way or another."

The sad truth behind this is everybody who is posting nonsense like this didn't read and/or Understand Dark0on'es response to the whole fiasco, and is instead making a huge kneejerk reaction based on assumption rater than fact

[Leros]

In response to post #24607884. #24609519, #24609764, #24609799 are all replies on the same post.

Draugas wrote:

bblair0099 wrote: Most people don't understand how this will affect future games like say Fallout 4, if it even happens now.

Draugas wrote: Yep. If this is even moderately successful, prepare to pay for Modding Tools DLC and Workshop only release permission behind payments.

Mindprobe24 wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CbWr0zO7Ac

Modding tools will never be DLC, especially not if they want to make money off mods, because that would limit the userbase they could earn money from.

Do you even capitalism?

[HadToRegister]

In response to post #24608314. #24608419, #24608604, #24608679, #24608689, #24608739, #24609864, #24610079 are all replies on the same post.

mineturtule wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: Do people not understand Legal reasons?

mineturtule wrote: What legal reason is there to say "free mods free mods" then taking money from the selling of the mods? I think that's called playing the ends against the middle.Or simply being two faced.

bigdeano89 wrote: More to the point, does NO ONE read anything other than bolded text? Dark0ne himself responds ON THAT REDDIT POST. I'm not even going to paste the info back again, I have done that half a dozen times so far. Go and read it yourself please.

Draugas wrote: I've seen that theres the option for the modder to list people who helped them create the mod so they get a portion of the money from sales. So Nexus doesn't get a portion of all sales, but gets something if the modder lists them.

IMO I don't see a problem with this (not that I'm supporting anything Valvthesda is doing with paid mods, I'm not). If a modder wants to tip Nexus to show support, I'm for it.

I think I saw it comes out of Valvthesda's cut, not the modder's, which is even better if true.

But to reiterate, I don't support the entire scheme in any way, shape or form. I'm afraid Valvthesda will continue this no matter how much noise users make, however.

CiderMuffin wrote: It's a DONATION, he isn't forcing modders to credit the Nexus as a source provider the mod makers are doing that themselves. He also stated NUMEROUS TIMES that he isn't opposed to the idea of modders making money off of their work it's just not his vision for the Nexus.

Don't listen to Chesko as they are having a temper tantrum because they messed up and want to make others suffer.

zanity wrote: Formally working with Valve and Bethesda when Valve and Bethesda are involved in such despicable acts is the worst idea possible. At a time like this, clean hands are ESSENTIAL. Remember, anyone has the right to help distribute Skyrim mods provided for FREE, so no-one is forced to work with Bethesda.

Sadly, as the owner of Valve knows, money corrupts- so one simply has to accumulate enough money to solve all business issues via financial corruption. Valve believes gamers are stupid enough to cheer mega-rich entities that attempt to keep gaming in the equivalent of the lawless 'wild west'- look how hard Valve fought to prevent Steam sales falling under EU laws on distance selling and consumer protection rights. Valve LOST, but the fact that Valve argued in court that digital game distribution companies are "ABOVE THE LAW" shows the mindset of these entities.

Zenimax had the perfect opportunity to FRESH START paid modding with Fallout 4- ensuring that from the beginning every correct legal mechanism was in place, and that would be commercial modders were completely educated in their legal responsibilities. Many would have been saddened at Fallout 4 modding going commercial, BUT it would be a completely reasonable experiment for Zenimax with ZERO impact on pre-existing situations.

Introducing paid modding for Skyrim is, by contrast, unforgivable. It is Valve attempting to increase the current lawless wild-west of modding to the power infinity, so it can leech off the commercial chaos like a money vampire. It is like an old 'gold rush' where tens of thousands of young men are 'invited' to waste their lives rainbow chasing while the mining giants wait in the wings to pick up the pieces for certain profit.

Charging for Skyrim mods is like a host charging dinner guests because "people deserve to make money from their time in the kitchen'. You want to make money from cooking? Go work in a restaurant. It is the same with software. The 'rules' of modding arose precisely because the work was intended to be offered for 'free'. When payment is involved, the Law states that the rules MUST change.

Nexus should explicitly join with everyone else to put pressure on Zenimax to reverse the decision over paid Skyrim mods. Zenimax should be informed, in the clearest terms, that paid software of ANY type comes with strict legal requirements, and if Zenimax takes the bigger part of the mod cost, zenimax carries full legal responsibility to ensure all necessary laws are met.

Such actions would assist Zenimax's project for paid Fallout 4 mods to meet required legal standards from the very beginning, and thus maybe help create a whole new type of modding community. Indeed, Zenimax could take responsibility for PURCHASING emerging fundamental Fallout 4 mod resources, and offer those resources for free (legally) to Fallout 4 paid end-user mod authors.

mALX1 wrote:

valvthesda, lol! You said it true though, there is no stopping this snowball rolling we need to just make sure it doesn't Steamroll Nexus down in its path.

mineturtule 0 kudos 165 posts
I am also considering removing my content from the Nexus. Why? The problem is that Robin et al, for perfectly good political reasons, have positioned themselves as essentially the champions of free mods and that they would never implement a for-pay system. However, The Nexus is a listed Service Provider on the curated Workshop, and they are profiting from Workshop sales.

Please actually read the FACTS and Robin's reply, rather than fomenting chaos with assumptions rather than facts

[zanity]

In response to post #24606579. #24606694, #24609814 are all replies on the same post.

xAsura wrote:

CiderMuffin wrote: Don't forget the refund period is only 24 hours.

xAsura wrote: Ah yes the 24 hour time frame for refunds. For most mods that simply isn't enough time to judge them much less figure out if they break your game or not. Not to mention what happens when a mod author decides he/she doesn't feel like supporting their mod and it becomes outdated or unfinished(which could happen very quickly after purchasing). Paid mods really go against the very nature of modding at least for Bethesda's games where you have a hundred or more mods running at any given time.

"Don't forget the refund period is only 24 hours. "

NOT under EU Law. No matter how many times the owner of Valve states Steam operates "above the Law", the Law of the nation where the person buying the Steam product resides controls the rights of that customer.

In the EU, mods must be "FIT FOR PURPOSE". There is NO responsibility on the purchaser to make this so- 100% of this liability lies with the seller and the manufacturer.

The Mod author CAN say the mod is only guaranteed to work with an updated unmodded version of Skyrim, but that is about the only restriction allowed. Serious bugs in the mod would lead to victory for ANY customer pursuing a complaint in the small claims courts. Class action lawsuits against Valve, Bethesda and the mod authors will also be possible against any mods that fail to work as advertised.

In truth, a paid mod is NOT a mod, but commercial DLC- and must meet the standards of all paid-for DLC.

[Draugas]

In response to post #24608314. #24608419, #24608604, #24608679, #24608689, #24608739, #24609864, #24610079, #24610199 are all replies on the same post.

mineturtule wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: Do people not understand Legal reasons?

mineturtule wrote: What legal reason is there to say "free mods free mods" then taking money from the selling of the mods? I think that's called playing the ends against the middle.Or simply being two faced.

bigdeano89 wrote: More to the point, does NO ONE read anything other than bolded text? Dark0ne himself responds ON THAT REDDIT POST. I'm not even going to paste the info back again, I have done that half a dozen times so far. Go and read it yourself please.

Draugas wrote: I've seen that theres the option for the modder to list people who helped them create the mod so they get a portion of the money from sales. So Nexus doesn't get a portion of all sales, but gets something if the modder lists them.

IMO I don't see a problem with this (not that I'm supporting anything Valvthesda is doing with paid mods, I'm not). If a modder wants to tip Nexus to show support, I'm for it.

I think I saw it comes out of Valvthesda's cut, not the modder's, which is even better if true.

But to reiterate, I don't support the entire scheme in any way, shape or form. I'm afraid Valvthesda will continue this no matter how much noise users make, however.

CiderMuffin wrote: It's a DONATION, he isn't forcing modders to credit the Nexus as a source provider the mod makers are doing that themselves. He also stated NUMEROUS TIMES that he isn't opposed to the idea of modders making money off of their work it's just not his vision for the Nexus.

Don't listen to Chesko as they are having a temper tantrum because they messed up and want to make others suffer.

zanity wrote: Formally working with Valve and Bethesda when Valve and Bethesda are involved in such despicable acts is the worst idea possible. At a time like this, clean hands are ESSENTIAL. Remember, anyone has the right to help distribute Skyrim mods provided for FREE, so no-one is forced to work with Bethesda.

Sadly, as the owner of Valve knows, money corrupts- so one simply has to accumulate enough money to solve all business issues via financial corruption. Valve believes gamers are stupid enough to cheer mega-rich entities that attempt to keep gaming in the equivalent of the lawless 'wild west'- look how hard Valve fought to prevent Steam sales falling under EU laws on distance selling and consumer protection rights. Valve LOST, but the fact that Valve argued in court that digital game distribution companies are "ABOVE THE LAW" shows the mindset of these entities.

Zenimax had the perfect opportunity to FRESH START paid modding with Fallout 4- ensuring that from the beginning every correct legal mechanism was in place, and that would be commercial modders were completely educated in their legal responsibilities. Many would have been saddened at Fallout 4 modding going commercial, BUT it would be a completely reasonable experiment for Zenimax with ZERO impact on pre-existing situations.

Introducing paid modding for Skyrim is, by contrast, unforgivable. It is Valve attempting to increase the current lawless wild-west of modding to the power infinity, so it can leech off the commercial chaos like a money vampire. It is like an old 'gold rush' where tens of thousands of young men are 'invited' to waste their lives rainbow chasing while the mining giants wait in the wings to pick up the pieces for certain profit.

Charging for Skyrim mods is like a host charging dinner guests because "people deserve to make money from their time in the kitchen'. You want to make money from cooking? Go work in a restaurant. It is the same with software. The 'rules' of modding arose precisely because the work was intended to be offered for 'free'. When payment is involved, the Law states that the rules MUST change.

Nexus should explicitly join with everyone else to put pressure on Zenimax to reverse the decision over paid Skyrim mods. Zenimax should be informed, in the clearest terms, that paid software of ANY type comes with strict legal requirements, and if Zenimax takes the bigger part of the mod cost, zenimax carries full legal responsibility to ensure all necessary laws are met.

Such actions would assist Zenimax's project for paid Fallout 4 mods to meet required legal standards from the very beginning, and thus maybe help create a whole new type of modding community. Indeed, Zenimax could take responsibility for PURCHASING emerging fundamental Fallout 4 mod resources, and offer those resources for free (legally) to Fallout 4 paid end-user mod authors.

mALX1 wrote:

valvthesda, lol! You said it true though, there is no stopping this snowball rolling we need to just make sure it doesn't Steamroll Nexus down in its path.

HadToRegister wrote:

mineturtule 0 kudos 165 posts
I am also considering removing my content from the Nexus. Why? The problem is that Robin et al, for perfectly good political reasons, have positioned themselves as essentially the champions of free mods and that they would never implement a for-pay system. However, The Nexus is a listed Service Provider on the curated Workshop, and they are profiting from Workshop sales.

Please actually read the FACTS and Robin's reply, rather than fomenting chaos with assumptions rather than facts

mALX1 ^.^

I saw somewhere people trying to come up with an amalgamation of the two names and Valvthesda popped into my head a few hours ago. I think it works. ;p

Oh, and I won't be charging if people want to use it in their own posts. :D Edited April 24, 2015 by Draugas

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #24608319. #24608409, #24608934, #24609194, #24609304, #24609334, #24609429, #24609489, #24610144 are all replies on the same post.

XxTOXIICxKiNGxX wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: The sad truth?

XxTOXIICxKiNGxX wrote: Yes, the sad truth. You have somebody who is stuck in the middle of all of this and is now parading as a white knight for free modding and yet he is directly profiting off all of this madness. It's not a major profit by any means, it's actually only 1-5% depending on the mods selected service providers but it's still a profit. Nexus is definitely the lowest on the totem poll of people to blame in all of this but they are still on there.

Service Providers:
-Blender Foundation
-Mod Configuration Menu
-Nexus Mods
-AFK Mods
-Polycount

Why are FNIS & SKSE among many others, not listed as service providers?
These are the two biggest modding frameworks in the entire community and they are not making any profits whatsoever. It's upsetting that a hosting provider is making money before the actual creators are.

Feel free to read Dark0ne's reply on Reddit:

XxTOXIICxKiNGxX wrote: Also how about TES5Edit, Mod Organizer, Wrye Bash, BOSS/LOOT, Texture Pack Combiner and the various hair and body mods? CBBE & UNP among many more are crucial pieces to every single follower mod out there.

bigdeano89 wrote: Go back and reread Dark0nes post on Cheskos reddit post before you go blabbing about ethics please. I am honestly getting more annoyed at you people immediately jumping on misinformation to attack Nexus with. Its a DONATION that mod authors can CHOOSE to give between 1 and 5% to Nexus as a thank you for this site helping build said mod and author. It isnt mandatory, nor is Nexus making profit on it. Its exactly the same as though we donated to them here.

erlkonnig1 wrote: It's a donation. It's a way for a modder to give back to the community that helped foster his work. Nexus isn't profiting off of this any more than if the modder in question just decided to donate a portion of his earnings to the site instead of having Valve do it on his behalf.

Unless a modder requests it, the Nexus gets nothing. This is hardly a case of Valve's hand in the Nexus' wallet.

JoeyLock wrote: 1-3% cut isn't exactly going to be millions mate.

bigdeano89 wrote: Thank you, someone who actually knows whats going on erl. Dark0ne seriously just needs to post an update explaining this so we can stop constantly defending him from Cheskos obnoxious tantrum.

HadToRegister wrote:

" XxTOXIICxKiNGxX
The sad truth behind all of the madness is that Nexus is profiting from all of this in one way or another."

The sad truth behind this is everybody who is posting nonsense like this didn't read and/or Understand Dark0on'es response to the whole fiasco, and is instead making a huge kneejerk reaction based on assumption rater than fact

I don't like this insinuation that I'm parading as a white knight. Where have I done any parading against using Steam Workshop at all? In fact, I've openly said that I do not begrudge any mod authors who want to use this service and get paid for their work.

The people who are saying I've stood for their cause, when I haven't, and then cry foul calling me a hypocrite when it turns out I'm not, even though I openly said I wasn't, are the ones that are annoying me the most. The Nexus is free. It will remain free. That's what I've said. My apprehension has not been towards mod authors making money for their work, my apprehension has been towards how this functionality is implemented without destroying what we've built here. I will continue to express my opinions on those issues, but the people who think I'm somehow in favour of mod authors not earning money for their work have misguided themselves.

[Arthmoor]

In response to post #24608229. #24608459, #24608944, #24609039, #24609259, #24609439, #24609544, #24609824, #24609959, #24609974 are all replies on the same post.

WightMage wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: The lack of people understanding this is astounding.

Dark0ne wrote: Thanks for continuing to link it to people who are reading Chesko's good bye Reddit post without seeing my response. My feelings are that writing a full blown news post on the topic would make things worse, not better, at this time. I'll do it if it's really necessary, but I think for now, my responses in that Reddit thread have helped to clarify the situation.

I'm thankful to the couple of mod authors out of the current ones on the paywall site who have selected the Nexus as a Service Provider, and I promise/pledge to them that the money raised will be going towards paying for a new forum server setup. It definitely won't cover it, not by a long shot, but it's a nice little boost to that kitty fund. So thank you to them.

Obviously Chesko wanted to lose some flak by trying to point a finger at me. That's fine, he's had a rough time. But it was hardly helpful.

anonownsyou wrote: It's not hypocritical, it's just an opportunity for mod authors using the workshop to remember who their friends are, and make Valve give a little something back to those friends out of their own cut. It's very likely that if it weren't for the Nexus, those authors would not be in a position to sell their content in the first place (everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their work). It's really just a small courtesy to the Nexus, and if it helps even just a little bit to keep the Nexus healthy and free, then all the better. So long as it doesn't come with any kind of 'kiss our ass, love Valve' condition, then it's not blood money.

Kentsui wrote:

Still, it should have been brought up in one of the articles only for the sake of transparency.

Draugas wrote: Exactly anonownsyou. You put it better than I did.

I also want to thank Dark0ne for everything. Keep your chin and the hard work up.

BenevolentTyrant wrote: The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

mALX1 wrote: It isn't hypocritical at all, and it is smart business because no one can change the Valve-Bethesda tide rolling; and if they don't keep a foot in the door we could lose Nexus.

Nexus has been a home and haven for modders as long as I can remember. They have helped us all without advertisement; and bandwidth for this place has to be hugely expensive.

Their premium membership here is the most reasonable on the web; I was more than glad to help this site in any way I could.

I would never consider asking money for a mod I made, but if I did, would much rather the cut go to Nexus than Valve.

Just my two cents.

** Edit:

AnonOwnsYou said it better than I could.

phantompally76 wrote: I don't view it so much as hypocrisy, but rather that while you were decrying Valve's actions publicly with one hand, you had come to an understanding with them in the other to receive revenue from them, and failed to disclose that information to your own already apprehensive and outraged community of revenue generators.

Actually, having read that sentence back a few times to myself....that bloody well IS hypocrisy.

At any rate, it's your website, and it's not my place to tell you or anyone else how to conduct your affairs.

All I know is that since this bombshell dropped yesterday, I haven't downloaded any mods or logged into Skyrim at all, and I have no inclination to do so at the moment. I hope that wears off, but right now I feel like abandoning the game and the mods entirely.

I liked modding a lot better when it was a hobby rather than a business.

Dark0ne wrote:

The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

Obviously I had no idea what sort of money I'd be getting from it. If it was a small amount, it could go towards a server kitty. If it was a large amount, I dreamed of hiring on more programmers for NMM. Irrespective, every little helps, and I didn't want to turn down what was, and still is, a kind gesture both from Valve and the mod authors who choose the Nexus as a service provider just because some people misguidedly might think I was being two faced.

I went in to it from the get go that this was a donation to supporting the Nexus, and this in no way endebted me to supporting or advocating the use of Steam Workshop. I've been offered a hell of a lot more money over the years than what this could even potentially bring in if it took off massively, and I haven't done it yet. So for people to doubt my intentions now. Meh. Don't know me at all. Or at least, people don't read the many blog posts I've written about this very topic in the past.

@Dark0ne:

I'd have set Nexus as a service provider for the one mod I have in the pay system now but I had a question about it that Valve didn't get around to answering until after the listing was approved. Authors can't change the payment distributions AT ALL once the listing is approved for sale.

[zanity]

In response to post #24607884. #24609519, #24609764, #24609799, #24610159 are all replies on the same post.

Draugas wrote:

bblair0099 wrote: Most people don't understand how this will affect future games like say Fallout 4, if it even happens now.

Draugas wrote: Yep. If this is even moderately successful, prepare to pay for Modding Tools DLC and Workshop only release permission behind payments.

Mindprobe24 wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CbWr0zO7Ac

Leros wrote: Modding tools will never be DLC, especially not if they want to make money off mods, because that would limit the userbase they could earn money from.

Do you even capitalism?

Fallout 4 is FULLY entitled to offer paywall only modding as an option if Zenimax properly deal with all the legal issues (unlike the situation with Skyrim). Indeed, as an experiment such a move will be welcome by more forward thinking people, since the Internet frequently discovers new business models that no-one previously realised were a good idea.

The problem today is that many people are CONFUSED as to why paid Skyrim modding is an obscenity- and thus use an 'entitlement' argument to bemoan the coming paid modding for Fallout 4.

Like it or not, Zenimax if fully entitled to choose what it does IN THE FUTURE. What Zenimax is NOT entitled to do is build a community for years under one set of rules, and suddenly HARVEST that community for commercial gain by changing the rules retrospectively. Wasn't that the dreadful intention of the 'bad guys' in Jupiter Ascending?

It would be intriguing to see Zenimax properly handle fully legal paid modding for a future title. Zenimax would surely have to buy the rights of all emerging tools used as 'dependencies' by end-user mods, so mod authors would have a growing library of tools and resources at their disposal. Zenimax would also have to take legal responsibility for QUALITY CONTROL, and that would be a wonder to behold.

[hangman04]

In response to post #24608229. #24608459, #24608944, #24609039, #24609259, #24609439, #24609544, #24609824, #24609959, #24609974, #24610559 are all replies on the same post.

WightMage wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: The lack of people understanding this is astounding.

Dark0ne wrote: Thanks for continuing to link it to people who are reading Chesko's good bye Reddit post without seeing my response. My feelings are that writing a full blown news post on the topic would make things worse, not better, at this time. I'll do it if it's really necessary, but I think for now, my responses in that Reddit thread have helped to clarify the situation.

I'm thankful to the couple of mod authors out of the current ones on the paywall site who have selected the Nexus as a Service Provider, and I promise/pledge to them that the money raised will be going towards paying for a new forum server setup. It definitely won't cover it, not by a long shot, but it's a nice little boost to that kitty fund. So thank you to them.

Obviously Chesko wanted to lose some flak by trying to point a finger at me. That's fine, he's had a rough time. But it was hardly helpful.

anonownsyou wrote: It's not hypocritical, it's just an opportunity for mod authors using the workshop to remember who their friends are, and make Valve give a little something back to those friends out of their own cut. It's very likely that if it weren't for the Nexus, those authors would not be in a position to sell their content in the first place (everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their work). It's really just a small courtesy to the Nexus, and if it helps even just a little bit to keep the Nexus healthy and free, then all the better. So long as it doesn't come with any kind of 'kiss our ass, love Valve' condition, then it's not blood money.

Kentsui wrote:

Still, it should have been brought up in one of the articles only for the sake of transparency.

Draugas wrote: Exactly anonownsyou. You put it better than I did.

I also want to thank Dark0ne for everything. Keep your chin and the hard work up.

BenevolentTyrant wrote: The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

mALX1 wrote: It isn't hypocritical at all, and it is smart business because no one can change the Valve-Bethesda tide rolling; and if they don't keep a foot in the door we could lose Nexus.

Nexus has been a home and haven for modders as long as I can remember. They have helped us all without advertisement; and bandwidth for this place has to be hugely expensive.

Their premium membership here is the most reasonable on the web; I was more than glad to help this site in any way I could.

I would never consider asking money for a mod I made, but if I did, would much rather the cut go to Nexus than Valve.

Just my two cents.

** Edit:

AnonOwnsYou said it better than I could.

phantompally76 wrote: I don't view it so much as hypocrisy, but rather that while you were decrying Valve's actions publicly with one hand, you had come to an understanding with them in the other to receive revenue from them, and failed to disclose that information to your own already apprehensive and outraged community of revenue generators.

Actually, having read that sentence back a few times to myself....that bloody well IS hypocrisy.

At any rate, it's your website, and it's not my place to tell you or anyone else how to conduct your affairs.

All I know is that since this bombshell dropped yesterday, I haven't downloaded any mods or logged into Skyrim at all, and I have no inclination to do so at the moment. I hope that wears off, but right now I feel like abandoning the game and the mods entirely.

I liked modding a lot better when it was a hobby rather than a business.

Dark0ne wrote:

The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

Obviously I had no idea what sort of money I'd be getting from it. If it was a small amount, it could go towards a server kitty. If it was a large amount, I dreamed of hiring on more programmers for NMM. Irrespective, every little helps, and I didn't want to turn down what was, and still is, a kind gesture both from Valve and the mod authors who choose the Nexus as a service provider just because some people misguidedly might think I was being two faced.

I went in to it from the get go that this was a donation to supporting the Nexus, and this in no way endebted me to supporting or advocating the use of Steam Workshop. I've been offered a hell of a lot more money over the years than what this could even potentially bring in if it took off massively, and I haven't done it yet. So for people to doubt my intentions now. Meh. Don't know me at all. Or at least, people don't read the many blog posts I've written about this very topic in the past.

Arthmoor wrote: @Dark0ne:

I'd have set Nexus as a service provider for the one mod I have in the pay system now but I had a question about it that Valve didn't get around to answering until after the listing was approved. Authors can't change the payment distributions AT ALL once the listing is approved for sale.

Dark0ne, don't worry this is just the heat of moment. After 1-2 months everyone will be complaint. Worse things have happened in the gaming industry ( pay to win in mmorpgs, even the dlc system) and people were lashing and swore they would never do this or that, and by the rage one would say that the companies will go bankrupt etc etc. But the truth is that almost every "unethical" change became eventually the norm, and this (mod authors getting payed) is by far the fairest addition. It's just a matter of time. You will probably loose the people who started swearing on the forum and you had to ban them :)).

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #24608229. #24608459, #24608944, #24609039, #24609259, #24609439, #24609544, #24609824, #24609959, #24609974, #24610559, #24610884 are all replies on the same post.

WightMage wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: The lack of people understanding this is astounding.

Dark0ne wrote: Thanks for continuing to link it to people who are reading Chesko's good bye Reddit post without seeing my response. My feelings are that writing a full blown news post on the topic would make things worse, not better, at this time. I'll do it if it's really necessary, but I think for now, my responses in that Reddit thread have helped to clarify the situation.

I'm thankful to the couple of mod authors out of the current ones on the paywall site who have selected the Nexus as a Service Provider, and I promise/pledge to them that the money raised will be going towards paying for a new forum server setup. It definitely won't cover it, not by a long shot, but it's a nice little boost to that kitty fund. So thank you to them.

Obviously Chesko wanted to lose some flak by trying to point a finger at me. That's fine, he's had a rough time. But it was hardly helpful.

anonownsyou wrote: It's not hypocritical, it's just an opportunity for mod authors using the workshop to remember who their friends are, and make Valve give a little something back to those friends out of their own cut. It's very likely that if it weren't for the Nexus, those authors would not be in a position to sell their content in the first place (everyone deserves a pat on the back and some beef jerky for their work). It's really just a small courtesy to the Nexus, and if it helps even just a little bit to keep the Nexus healthy and free, then all the better. So long as it doesn't come with any kind of 'kiss our ass, love Valve' condition, then it's not blood money.

Kentsui wrote:

Still, it should have been brought up in one of the articles only for the sake of transparency.

Draugas wrote: Exactly anonownsyou. You put it better than I did.

I also want to thank Dark0ne for everything. Keep your chin and the hard work up.

BenevolentTyrant wrote: The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

mALX1 wrote: It isn't hypocritical at all, and it is smart business because no one can change the Valve-Bethesda tide rolling; and if they don't keep a foot in the door we could lose Nexus.

Nexus has been a home and haven for modders as long as I can remember. They have helped us all without advertisement; and bandwidth for this place has to be hugely expensive.

Their premium membership here is the most reasonable on the web; I was more than glad to help this site in any way I could.

I would never consider asking money for a mod I made, but if I did, would much rather the cut go to Nexus than Valve.

Just my two cents.

** Edit:

AnonOwnsYou said it better than I could.

phantompally76 wrote: I don't view it so much as hypocrisy, but rather that while you were decrying Valve's actions publicly with one hand, you had come to an understanding with them in the other to receive revenue from them, and failed to disclose that information to your own already apprehensive and outraged community of revenue generators.

Actually, having read that sentence back a few times to myself....that bloody well IS hypocrisy.

At any rate, it's your website, and it's not my place to tell you or anyone else how to conduct your affairs.

All I know is that since this bombshell dropped yesterday, I haven't downloaded any mods or logged into Skyrim at all, and I have no inclination to do so at the moment. I hope that wears off, but right now I feel like abandoning the game and the mods entirely.

I liked modding a lot better when it was a hobby rather than a business.

Dark0ne wrote:

The fact that its chump change is what makes it hurt more in my opinion. If it doesn't affect the bottom line it should've been an easy choice to turn down.

Obviously I had no idea what sort of money I'd be getting from it. If it was a small amount, it could go towards a server kitty. If it was a large amount, I dreamed of hiring on more programmers for NMM. Irrespective, every little helps, and I didn't want to turn down what was, and still is, a kind gesture both from Valve and the mod authors who choose the Nexus as a service provider just because some people misguidedly might think I was being two faced.

I went in to it from the get go that this was a donation to supporting the Nexus, and this in no way endebted me to supporting or advocating the use of Steam Workshop. I've been offered a hell of a lot more money over the years than what this could even potentially bring in if it took off massively, and I haven't done it yet. So for people to doubt my intentions now. Meh. Don't know me at all. Or at least, people don't read the many blog posts I've written about this very topic in the past.

Arthmoor wrote: @Dark0ne:

I'd have set Nexus as a service provider for the one mod I have in the pay system now but I had a question about it that Valve didn't get around to answering until after the listing was approved. Authors can't change the payment distributions AT ALL once the listing is approved for sale.

hangman04 wrote: Dark0ne, don't worry this is just the heat of moment. After 1-2 months everyone will be complaint. Worse things have happened in the gaming industry ( pay to win in mmorpgs, even the dlc system) and people were lashing and swore they would never do this or that, and by the rage one would say that the companies will go bankrupt etc etc. But the truth is that almost every "unethical" change became eventually the norm, and this (mod authors getting payed) is by far the fairest addition. It's just a matter of time. You will probably loose the people who started swearing on the forum and you had to ban them :)).

Thanks Arthmoor, and no worries.

I saw that you weren't best pleased that I didn't make the service provider information public from the get-go on your forums. I can see your point, and I can understand the knee-jerk negative reaction coming from the way Chesko pointed at me in his Reddit thread. Obviously, if I'd been more open about it from the start then I could have managed the community response more easily.

But in the same vein, this just seemed a no brainer to me. It was sold to me on the premise of letting mod authors who are fans of the Nexus and want to support the Nexus giving a little back to the Nexus through this system, and it most definitely wasn't offered as a token of "hey, we'll offer you this if you're nice to us!". Obviously people don't know that, but the service provider blurb on the sites is pretty clear, and many people have mistaken my open talking of poor implementation of Steam's paywall system as me some how championing free modding EVERYWHERE, which most certainly hasn't been my intention. I just begrudge how badly it's been handled, rather than the over-arcing concept.

When Chesko made the Reddit thread it was already late here in the UK, and I've taken the decision to leave it a night. If it blows up or seems to be a big issue, I'll clarify the Service Provider stuff more. If it doesn't, I'll leave it be.