On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[jackty89]

Nice article I dearly hope that Bethy fixes their "mod site" as if this keeps going on i think we'll see quite a lot of modders go "private" and that is something that would be very sad.

[bethjunkie]

Thank you, Dark0ne.

[Thallassa]

In response to post #39468315. #39468760, #39469375 are all replies on the same post.

Perhaps you shouldn't hate on legalese so much though...

Edit: What I mean is, legalese is a writing style that serves a particular purposes and does it very well. You also defend your writing style as suitable for your purpose, even if others find it a bit dense. So why complain about other people's language? :tongue:

Edit 2: Do all the swear words in your post mean swearing is ok on nexus now? Damn! :D

Edited June 17, 2016 by Thallassa

[Lisnpuppy]

 

In response to post #39468315.

 

 

 

R0NlN wrote: I hesitate to post this (since most people aren't very open to criticism, no matter how constructive-- that's just human nature), but in the end I feel compelled to do so. That was a painful read, which means it probably didn't accomplish what you wanted it to.

 

I know you have some important points to make, but there's a lot of brush to clear to find them. Please, in the future, edit before you publish. Provide an introduction that previews your main points, develop those points in the body, and finish with a summary. Go through each line (or at least each paragraph) and ask yourself, "Does this need to be here? Can it be shortened or reworded, to make the point more concisely?"

 

Try saying in a few words what you've said here in 5,127. You have to grab your readers' attention, get your message across, and wrap it up as quickly as the subject allows.

 

Sorry for the unsolicited advice. I only want to help you write articles that will impact your audience.

I hated English Lit class for this very reason.

 

These posts have always been a practical opinion-dump on my part. Almost as though you're reading what I would have said out loud, unedited and uncut. My honest opinion.

 

Believe it or not these articles do go through extensive editing, reworking of paragraphs, the removal of others and reorganising the structure, so the end result is exactly how I wanted the article to read.

 

All in all, it took about 6 hours to write and edit this particular article.

 

 

Some things require a hard read. I appreciate this article and that someone that knows EXACTLY what it takes to run a site like this, is speaking out. Robin, from your site alone and its growth over the years gave them a perfect template off which they could have built something great. Instead it seem like they took every mistake and bad idea to heart from all the sites over the years and copied it. They should not have just tossed that out there right before E3 and thought they could wave the magic wand of "it just works" and made it so.

 

I don't make many mods so I have no reason to be upset with Beth as the mod authors who have had their work taken without permission. But I resent the heck out of what has happened with all this because it is 100% avoidable. Beth has made a decision that once again drew first blood. To paraphrase a statement I heard from Robin on another matter recently (i loved the phrase), the relationship between Beth and the community is a death by a thousand cuts. Eventually either the body dies or it gets up and goes. I don't relish either of those options.

 

So thank you Robin and staff for all that you do to keep this going.

[HadToRegister]

In response to post #39468355. #39468585 is also a reply to the same post.

Izaki131 wrote: The author could've done without the long SJW-esque rant. Maybe you should give modding ON a console a try if you like them so much.

balwick wrote: You silly tart, you're exactly the type of person he tells to sod off in the post.

Izaki131 0 kudos 1 posts
The author could've done without the long SJW-esque rant. Maybe you should give modding ON a console a try if you like them so much.

1 whole post.
Did you make an account JUST to post that dribble?

[skinnytecboy]

Firstly, I've always had a great respect for your wise words Dark0nsie

Secondly, I haven't read any of the comments before launching off on my text....

 

I think in regards to mod piracy, there is a misguided interpretation that console users are to blame.

 

However, in order to upload mods you need a Pc version of fallout in order to use CK (perhaps there is a way with pirated versions, I'm too innocent to know). Therefore, by and large, the actual perpetrators are PC users and not console users.

 

The above said, obviously there is fault upon the hands of some console users, but who can blame someone for wanting all those lovely slooty mods that Pc users take for granted?

 

In regards to the whole layout of bethnet, I personally think it's better (put down those pitchforks and hear me out).

 

On the nexus main page we are presented predominantly with hotfiles (predominantly underage followers in skyrims case) and a small side section that features "latest" mods. Whereas on Bethnet the presentation is equal among Popular/Favourite and New. In that aspect at least I think the nexus could learn from. Well, it would certainly sedate alk those slooty posts that keep popping up on the forums lately.

 

Anyway, just speaking my mind and nothing more :)

[TTRJN]

Pardon my French, but that's one long ass rant.

 

Oh heroes of present times who dared to read it all, what OP is trying to tell to us?

[matortheeternal]

Liked most of this, but it was a bit long-winded. I also feel that the tone is very disrespectful. I know you're likely writing this to your audience here at Nexus Mods, but if/when a Bethesda employee reads this they aren't going to think "gee we really messed up", they're going to think "Dark0ne is antagonizing us". Maybe this is intended to be r/circlejerk, but I don't think making a post like this really serves any purpose other than to further polarize an extremely difficult and damaging issue.

 

What we need is courses of action or potential solutions, not rants. I do appreciate that you've made an official statement on this matter (though it could have been made sooner), but I don't think it was the right statement to make. This is just my opinion/perspecitve on the matter, and not necessarily of any importance to you (or anyone else).

 

Since I'm saying we need courses of action or potential solutions, here are some thoughts:

 

1. We should start a community effort to build an anti-piracy module to provide a message to users of mods on consoles. This would be something mod authors can drop into their mods extremely easily to prevent or discourage illegal redistribution of their mods on Bethesda.net. It should be pretty easy to make, and should be a mod on Nexus Mods with clear documentation so any mod author can easily download it and add it to their mods.

 

2. We should create a petition/find another means of more directly communicating our concerns to Bethesda. Right now we're making a lot of noise, but we're not shouting in the right places (Bethesda Forums seem to work OK, but aren't sufficient, I feel). A simple petition through any of several available petition websites (a non-political choice would be best) which allows for written statements would be a great place to bring these concerns to light.

 

3. We could potentially look into forming some kind of non-profit entity for the protection of Mod Author's rights. The way this would work is a mod author would basically elect to allow this entity to file DMCA notices/take actions against illegal mod redistribution on their behalf. This would allow mod authors to remain anonymous (so no fear of doxxing after a DMCA), centralize and organize anti-mod-piracy efforts (allows us to track how much is happening better), and would allow anti-mod-piracy operations to be performed more professionally and efficiently. It would also become a lot more legally recognizable and impressive than individual mod authors acting on their own, potentially prompting faster/stronger responses from Bethesda/other parties. This organization would not be limited to Bethesda.net, it could act in other circumstances as well. To be clear: mod authors would not sign any rights to such an organization, they'd simply give it permission to take legal action against copyright infringement on their mods.

 

Honestly, an organization like this should have been formed a long time ago. It may seem it's a little late to the party, but creating it would be a great way to organize anti-mod-piracy efforts and would help us act more effectively in the future.

 

Alright, that's all I've got for now. My heart goes out to every mod author who has been negatively affected by this debacle, and I hope that we can move things in a positive direction from here forward.

 

 

-Mator

Edited June 17, 2016 by matortheeternal

[Deleted3897072User]

In response to post #39464010. #39464265, #39466000, #39467535, #39468865, #39469415 are all replies on the same post.

MokChaoticran wrote: Thanks for this, Dark0ne, Robin, whichever you'd prefer. Watching people argue, the countless rant videos, the nonstop flood of e-mails in my inbox for reporting and calling out stolen content on Bethesda.net, watching big time mod authors lock their doors and pull their work out of the public market - It's been a painful couple of weeks and I really appreciate some kind of official word on this, and as far as the modding community goes, you're as official as it gets.

I overall agree with your stance, and it is the most educated, realistic and moral of the ones I've seen put forward. If you read this, I'd like to ask, what is your opinion on the prospect of "Mod-DRM" and the likes, as it has been discussed among mod authors lately?

Dark0ne wrote: I honestly see no problem with inserting hidden scripts in to mods, that only trigger if the mod is used on a console, that informs users that the mod has been stolen and uploaded to Bethesda.net without permission (and to perhaps please report the mod).

I'm obviously not in favour of any form of DRM that would ultimately damage a console player, his console or his save game.

yevvie wrote: That would be amazing thing, especially informing console users that the stolen mod can damage their console, saves, and everything they have on there, since it wasn't tested with consoles at all.

I'd love to see someone from nexus releasing such script so we could add it to our mods, since for many of us something like this is way too complex to create.

Hopefully this idea will stay in minds of modders here, as it's really good way of fixing things.

Xeneonic wrote: I have to agree with Dark0ne's latter sentence. Most people playing on consoles and browsing beth.net are people that want to play with mods with no strings attached. Not everyone researches into these developments the past few weeks, they come home from a hard day at work, see a new popular mod and want to try it out.

Getting to hear at that time that the mod won't work is fine, but suddenly having your game broken or saves gone is a few steps too far, as it would be punishment to someone that doesn't even know it was stolen or anything like that. You'd be punishing the wrong group of people with that.

To the contrary, I'm sure some trolls would upload some mods to beth.net that would delete saves etc just to annoy the community for the hell of it.

Requiring SKSE or a script that warns users that it will not work/is stolen should be more than enough.

Theseus12 wrote: A mod that suddenly boots the game back to the main menu, and says "(plugin) was not designed with consoles in mind, and could severely damage your system. If you see this message, it is likely that this mod is stolen, and we ask that you please report it. If you believe this message is an error, please contact (mod author) at (page)

sothpaw wrote: Out of everything I've had the opportunity to view - I am most supportive of the SKSE option. Since it's an outside program, it doesn't appear likely that a console user could make use of a stolen mod.

It seems to me that on top of the aformentioned... many responding console users in the bethnet forums possess little to no patience. When I used to work with other mod authors in the Oblivion days, it would take weeks, sometime months to get something ready for release. That doesn't appear to have changed. What has changed it seems is the maturity and patience level of the user audience. It's disheartening to learn that the work put into creating mods is largely misunderstood by this new audience.

Simply arranging for vital bits of the mod to quietly not work on consoles may be sufficient. In Skyrim, there's a condition function IsWin32 that can be used to trap console usage and there's a papyrus function Debug.GetPlatformName() that can be used equivalently. Anyone uploading a mod with those sprinkled through it will find themselves with a dead dog and console users who try it out will soon start throwing brickbats at him. In a way, it's self-policing.

Of course, this only works for mods that actually contain scripts. Mods that consist entirely of meshes, textures, animations and so on, are still vulnerable. Edited June 17, 2016 by OldMansBeard

[jackty89]

In response to post #39470015.

TTRJN wrote: Pardon my French, but that's one long ass rant.

Oh heroes of present times who dared to read it all, what OP is trying to tell to us?

Very very inaccurate short version "Beth needs better moderation on their site, as the way they are acting now is like they don't care"