Big changes for the Nexus Mod Manager and the introduction of Tannin42, our new head of NMM development

[TheMagician16]

In response to post #43209145. #43209380, #43211385 are all replies on the same post.

RoyBatterian wrote: Here's hoping for advanced mode.

Here's also hoping for quashing that time zone bug (I think) that likes to uninstall all your mods I've reported several times.

I don't know how to feel about this.

DuskDweller wrote: Hi Roy, can you post a link to one of your reports so we can have a look at it?

RoyBatterian wrote: I'd have to dig, that was like 2 years ago by now I think. I stopped using NMM the third time it uninstalled all my Skyrim mods after an update. I saw someone complain about it not even a week ago though.

Similar issue with Roy only it happened more recently to me, unfortunately I do not remember the details only that it updated and asked me about uninstalling all mods with no option to refuse. That is the biggest issue I have had with NMM.

[SpiritWolf448]

Phew. Big news to digest. As a die-hard MO user, I am honestly a bit worried.

Please, whatever you do with the "new" NMM, please see to the following:

 

1. give it a new name if it is truly a completely new program (to clearly differentiate it from it's predecessor)

2. please, for all that is holy, keep MO's virtualization system and don't use the "wannabe" implementation the current NMM uses

 

Pretty please.

 

@tannin42

Congratulations on the new job. May it offer you the possibilites you always wanted.

[axonis]

In response to post #43213925. #43215075, #43215235 are all replies on the same post.

axonis wrote: I personally don't use mod organizers so I wouldn't be interested in this news article, but there is a feature I'd like to request that could immensely help mod authors, especially for Skyrim.

Would it be possible to implement a "test this mod alone" function that allows players to test a single mod (loaded with its required files only) for bugs and pack their saved game along with any required config files for bug reports ?

Sometimes users don't understand that mod authors are not modding their load orders but rather Skyrim. Yes, some mods such as the USKP or SkyUI can be taken for granted -- "should" in the case of the USKP, but otherwise it's a shame for an author to be wasting their time finding out issues that are not their own responsibility.

Mod organizers have, indirectly and without any intent, contributed to this issue by offering a simple interface that makes installing any mod a breeze, and I believe it's due to this ease of use that we see those huge mod lists in the last years. Perhaps it's time users become aware of the implications of this, and mod organizers would be the perfect way to tell them.

HadToRegister wrote: That's EXACTLY what a Mod Manager does, both NMM and MO have this capability to test a mod alone, or with others etc.

azraal wrote: Well you could use profiles in NMM and MO. And for Mo, selecting only one mod will mean only the files of this mod will be installed.

As for the users I think they understand but don't want to bother anyway, they'll turn on to the mod author for advice.
I've gone through the thing contless time: Breaking my game, going through my load order one by one, to find one mod author had modified a script that is seemingly unrelated to the mod that break another mod's dependency that prompt a totally unrelated behavior. Sure this is not the mod author fault, most of the time they know already but they still expect them to give answer.

It's long and boring to do, that's the price to pay with an big load order, I would ignore the game for a few day before sorting my mess... But not everyone wants to bother.
My point is, educating won't help, and people will still bother modders.

On the other hand, as a support technician for a software company, I have seen my share of issues, that the client, even with the best intentions, has no way of knowing that the issue does not come from the product, and it require a real analysis to determine the real cause.
It's a shame, but when you set a product, even for free, you cannot simply ignore your user base because even if it's a conflict there is still a chance you are the one causing the issue.

It's sad but you cannot expect the user to use only your mod...
I'm playing the devil advocate here, because I agree it's a shame.

But a tool can only assist, now you can do what we do, paste some instructions on how to gather data on the issue (a simple step by step no complex explication that would go over the head of someone who isn't willing to learn the inner working)
Most of the time the user themselves will find the source of the problem and if he comes back with simply the mod that was causing the conflict, a quick analysis will prompt a simple response:
It's my fault.
It's no one fault (conflict).
it's their fault.
And it's worth correcting or not.

Keep in mind an incompatibility may lead you to a piece of code, that makes you wonder what you had in mind when you wrote it.

So not all black or white here...

Anyway MO is great because it only installs the mod you selected in a clean directory (except for steam and bethesda mods are they are forcefully set in your directory)

While I would never expect anyone to use my mod only, it would help a lot if the manager software would make it more obvious that bug reports for a mod should only be based on that mod alone plus a few "defactos".

I respect your experience on the field but I should point at the obvious, mod authoring should not be a job. Or at least it isn't, yet.

[JimboUK]

In response to post #43210430. #43215310, #43215490, #43215920, #43216655, #43217565 are all replies on the same post.

jim_uk wrote: Please can we get a mode for us old stick in the muds who still do everything manually and only want something to enable mods and change the load order? I'm still using 0.52.3.

kingtobbe wrote: This works perfectly for that. It doesn't disable mods beyond unchecking the esp though. Of course if it did, it wouldn't be simple anymore :)

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/13671/?

vram1974 wrote: You're never too old to save time. If a veritable moron like myself can figure out mod managers then anybody can.

jim_uk wrote: It's nothing to do with figuring them out, it's that I don't need all the other stuff, I've been installing mods since 2002, I know what I'm doing and prefer to do things myself.

@kingtobbe I used something similar for FO4, it saved me from upgrading and risking breaking my older games.

Arthmoor wrote: I'm with jim_uk on this one. If I were to be convinced to use this new NMM, I'd want it to be straightforward and without all the file system virtualization stuff. And it would need to be at least as robust about handling the Data folder as Wrye Bash is now.

Oh, and please, for the love of Talos, leave the BSA unpacking to other tools where it belongs!

HadToRegister wrote: So if you're still using 0.52.3 then just continue using it then, problem solved, as you're not even using NMM for anything except to enable/disable mods and change the load order.
You're not even using it to it's fullest potential, so you'll be able to use that version forever.

It won't work for newer titles, this months Skyrim Shiny Edition being one of them.

[PirateZ86]

In response to post #43210430. #43215310, #43215490, #43215920, #43216655, #43217565, #43217935 are all replies on the same post.

jim_uk wrote: Please can we get a mode for us old stick in the muds who still do everything manually and only want something to enable mods and change the load order? I'm still using 0.52.3.

kingtobbe wrote: This works perfectly for that. It doesn't disable mods beyond unchecking the esp though. Of course if it did, it wouldn't be simple anymore :)

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/13671/?

vram1974 wrote: You're never too old to save time. If a veritable moron like myself can figure out mod managers then anybody can.

jim_uk wrote: It's nothing to do with figuring them out, it's that I don't need all the other stuff, I've been installing mods since 2002, I know what I'm doing and prefer to do things myself.

@kingtobbe I used something similar for FO4, it saved me from upgrading and risking breaking my older games.

Arthmoor wrote: I'm with jim_uk on this one. If I were to be convinced to use this new NMM, I'd want it to be straightforward and without all the file system virtualization stuff. And it would need to be at least as robust about handling the Data folder as Wrye Bash is now.

Oh, and please, for the love of Talos, leave the BSA unpacking to other tools where it belongs!

HadToRegister wrote: So if you're still using 0.52.3 then just continue using it then, problem solved, as you're not even using NMM for anything except to enable/disable mods and change the load order.
You're not even using it to it's fullest potential, so you'll be able to use that version forever.

jim_uk wrote: It won't work for newer titles, this months Skyrim Shiny Edition being one of them.

@jim_uk: Please don't listen or reply to morons who have no common sense.

[PushTheWinButton]

After years of using solely MO (after originally using NMM from its release) I tried NMM again when Fallout 4 came out, and I'd like to add that the more recent versions were honestly harder to fathom, and messier, than MO. My MO initiation probably took a matter of hours because it was just intuitive. I really think this whole 'NMM is better for beginners' isn't really true anymore, and all NMM has going for it is the wider range of games it supports. NMM just became the de-facto choice for new users due to it being advertised widely in the same place where they got the mods from. The stigma surrounding MO seems mostly unwarranted and is probably a result of people parroting the 'it's for advanced users' rhetoric. I can't say these things without sounding like a stick in the mud, but I honestly think 'scrapping' NMM as it stands and working more from the MO side of things for the new version would be best. I mean it even includes a tutorial to tell people how to use it if they didn't find it obvious.

 

(Also, MO's simplistic UI is much easier on the eyes. Never really liked all NMM's curves and icons. Eww. Kinda gets garish after a while.)

Edited October 13, 2016 by PushTheWinButton

[Plemith]

If this new mod managers keeps files out of the root directory, besides like skse files as usual, than ill be fine with it, thats the reason i dont use NMM is because it just messes up the base files if you ever want to reinstall/change stuff you have to fresh install the game

[SpiritWolf448]

After years of using solely MO (after originally using NMM from its release) I tried NMM again when Fallout 4 came out, and I'd like to add that the more recent versions were honestly harder to fathom, and messier, than MO. My MO initiation probably took a matter of hours because it was just intuitive. I really think this whole 'NMM is better for beginners' isn't really true anymore, and all NMM has going for it is the wider range of games it supports. NMM just became the de-facto choice for new users due to it being advertised widely in the same place where they got the mods from. The stigma surrounding MO seems mostly unwarranted and is probably a result of people parroting the 'it's for advanced users' rhetoric. I can't say these things without sounding like a stick in the mud, but I honestly think 'scrapping' NMM as it stands and working more from the MO side of things for the new version would be best. I mean it even includes a tutorial to tell people how to use it if they didn't find it obvious.

 

(Also, MO's simplistic UI is much easier on the eyes. Never really liked all NMM's curves and icons. Eww. Kinda gets garish after a while.)

 

Where is the upvote/like button when you need one? I completely agree.

[Ethreon]

In response to post #43212230. #43212635, #43213815, #43214230 are all replies on the same post.

VictorDragonslayer wrote: Time goes, things change. As a MO user I have several questions:

1) What will happen with NMM UI? Will we be able to make it look similar to MO? I understand that someday I'll have to use NMM instead of MO and I really don't want to get used to absolutely new interface.

2) What about advanced features of MO, will we be able to include/turn them on in NMM? MO provides a lot of valueable information about mods and their components and I would hate to lose it.

3) Are you interested in translators? I've noticed that certain part of Russian-speaking community has troubles with English UI and English tutorials, which often results in mistakes. I can help you with translation and documentation - I have an experience of teaching people how to mod their games properly and maintain small guides about mods in my free time.

Tannin42 wrote: re 1) The UI will be different from both NMM and MO. It will be very themeable but I don't think you will be able to completely change the structure of the interface.

re 2) That is the plan, yes. My hope is that eventually the new NMM will be able to provide even more details than MO did but likely not in the default setting and probably not in the first public release.

re 3) We're developing the new NMM with translation in mind. Again, we haven't made a final decision yet how we're going to get translations in but MO had localizations and I was quite happy with how that worked. I figure there will be another announcement once we cross that bridge.

DontBlnkBadWolf wrote: @Tannin42 What about translating from Queen's English to American English? Any plans for needing someone to do that? LMFAO, just kidding. That was just a joke I made to all my British colleagues on the SLACK boards, I teased them about certain spelled words.

Please don't take this reply seriously, I was making a "call back" on my joke.

VictorDragonslayer wrote:

The UI will be different from both NMM and MO.

Ok. "A user interface is like a joke. If you have to explain it, it’s not that good." © I hope that you won't have to explain your UI :)

My hope is that eventually the new NMM will be able to provide even more details than MO did

That's my hope, too. Good luck with that.

I figure there will be another announcement once we cross that bridge.

Ok, I'm looking forward to it.

Huge thanks for your reply and all your work.

Except ui is not a joke and should be explained where explanations are needed.

I hope it will offer a dark layout for those of us that have sensitive eyes, no matter how it will look. MO had that and it was great.

[CyniclyPink]

In response to post #43215990. #43217010, #43217495 are all replies on the same post.

jfisha wrote: I, for one, am personally so happy to hear this news. M.O. is a great tool, and still what I use for my Skyrim modding needs. I use NMM for Fallout 4.

I can understand the casual modders worries about M.O. At first glance, it does look very intimidating, but with people like Gopher making very informative and detailed videos on how to use it, this 40 year old man is now very comfortable with it. I know you young guys will have no problems.

Can't wait to see what you guys release. If M.O. is what Tannin can do during his free time, it's going to be awesome to see what he can develop as a full time project.

Best of luck, guys. Excited

Charmareian wrote: You do know there is a build of MO for Fallout 4? I use it and have had no issues

HadToRegister wrote: Yea, I've tried to download that version for Fallout 4, but it refuses to install, and gives me an error every single time because it complains it couldn't connect to a server, so I gave up on it.
Why write a program that people can't even download?

I agree. There is a bit of a learning curve with MO, but it's well worth it. I'm 63 and I figured it out.