FishBiter Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) As other mod authors have said and I'll chime in: donations don't work.They work. Perhaps not if all you're interested in is money but they work just fine. If all you want is money pick another way, don't destroy our community. It's comments like these that show that the old knee-jerk reactions are still there, and people aren't actually paying attention to what Creation Club actually is. If you think it's going to destroy the modding community, then you haven't actually looked into how it works. Simply put: It won't. You can just relax. If the best mod authors, the ones who would actually be able to take advantage of Creation Club want to do so, then that is their right. Nobody can tell them otherwise - all you can do is say "Well, then I will just not use your great mods that I would normally say are 'must have in my load order'". That's fine too by the way, you don't have to pay for anything you don't want to pay for. Both parties are well within their rights to take their respective actions in this case. I know some people hate it - mostly the people who rode the wave of protest and felt like heroes during the curated workshop thing - but Bethesda figured out how to do it right this time. They looked at what the problems were, and figured out a way to avoid them. This is going forward, and it is going to work. I will happily pay money for some of those big mods I used to get for free - primarily because I donated upwards of 50$ to some of those mod authors who made some of those really big mods that took tons of work, that ended up being mods I couldn't play without. They did good work, and they deserve not just to get some paychecks for what they do, but also potentially a foot in the door in the game development industry - I would love to see some of these guys go pro, they deserve it. That's what this boils down to for me - these guys deserve what Creation Club offers. Also, it means that people who don't deserve it ( mod thieves, garbage pushers ) won't get something they don't deserve. PS - don't bother using my 50$ donations as justification that "donations work!". In nearly every single case the author responded by thanking me for being the only person to ever donate. Simply put, there's a reason the "Forever Free" slogan was so catchy, and that's because people generally don't want to give mod authors money. Edited June 25, 2017 by FishBiter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transient3292 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017  As other mod authors have said and I'll chime in: donations don't work.They work. Perhaps not if all you're interested in is money but they work just fine. If all you want is money pick another way, don't destroy our community.  It's comments like these that show that the old knee-jerk reactions are still there, and people aren't actually paying attention to what Creation Club actually is.  If you think it's going to destroy the modding community, then you haven't actually looked into how it works.  Simply put: It won't.  You can just relax.  If the best mod authors, the ones who would actually be able to take advantage of Creation Club want to do so, then that is their right.  Nobody can tell them otherwise - all you can do is say "Well, then I will just not use your great mods that I would normally say are 'must have in my load order'".  That's fine too by the way, you don't have to pay for anything you don't want to pay for.  Both parties are well within their rights to take their respective actions in this case.  I know some people hate it - mostly the people who rode the wave of protest and felt like heroes during the curated workshop thing - but Bethesda figured out how to do it right this time.  They looked at what the problems were, and figured out a way to avoid them.  This is going forward, and it is going to work.  I will happily pay money for some of those big mods I used to get for free - primarily because I donated upwards of 50$ to some of those mod authors who made some of those really big mods that took tons of work, that ended up being mods I couldn't play without.  They did good work, and they deserve not just to get some paychecks for what they do, but also potentially a foot in the door in the game development industry - I would love to see some of these guys go pro, they deserve it. That's what this boils down to for me - these guys deserve what Creation Club offers.  Also, it means that people who don't deserve it ( mod thieves, garbage pushers ) won't get something they don't deserve.   PS - don't bother using my 50$ donations as justification that "donations work!".  In nearly every single case the author responded by thanking me for being the only person to ever donate. Simply put, there's a reason the "Forever Free" slogan was so catchy, and that's because people generally don't want to give mod authors money.your argument is valid, Noone knows for sure what will happen, but the people arguing against it have seen what the creation club says, it's that not everyone is believing that Bethesda is being 100%truthful. you have to admit, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for a company to dance around technicalities over something that they know will piss a lot of people off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeArTBeaT15 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) Well maybe its still too early to judge, and Bethesda Softworks has explained a lot in great detail about their "Creation Club" , about free mods and mini DLC's within it.However that was only after the huge outcry from the public, and this raises some concerns and issues.It could be that Bethesda failed (intentionally or not) to properly explain that during E3. Some youtubers, like Gopher, which always shows gameplay and mods from Fallout and The Elder scrolls series on his channel (among other things), have suggested to give Bethesda the benefit of doubt, that this "Creation Club" might be a great platform for good mods (ik its hard to believe because of what they show in their trailer). This could be great if it turns out to be true.However, with recent issues plaguing Bethesda and other major publishers, we have every damn right to be deeply sceptical with them! Its a good thing Bethesda gets so much s*** from the public, because they were pushed to explain it with great details on how this would work. Remember , Bethesda Softworks is the same publisher that launched their crusades and bullying tactics against other indie developers over common english words like : scrools, prey and fallout.I WILL NEVER, EVER, given the benefit of doubt to Bethesda Softworks, and Bethesda Game studios for that matter, BECAUSE THEY DESERVE NONE OF IT! Proof is in their recent actions:Re-release of skyrim with none of the older bugs, that remained, fixed (although modders showed they can be fixed)The Fiasco of the previous paid mods attempt, where they completely rejected Steam's advice and greedy went to milk the modding community for more income, with no respect or responsibility what so ever.Countless cut content that was then released as paid dlc (seriously wtf so many settlement DLCs)and so on! If they do this, they better start acting like a game publishing company, and not like a bunch of pyramid scheme f*#@tards.Some may call us "a bunch of selfish cry-babies" but i see it more of a "check and balance system".They did? Do you have a link to this 'more information'? I would be very much interested in what they have to say. https://creationclub.bethesda.net/enI went to that page as soon as it was available, just to make a clear ideea of what will be.AND IT WAS BAD, in the beginning at least, since it only contained info on what type of mods you will get, how to join the group, and that pretty much it. Since the outrage (which should of been expected), they expanded on the details quite a bit. I still belive if this was left without us ranting at them, they would have pretty much included paid mods (though you never know in the future). At this point they are basically saying : " Ok guys , we're not gonna release as much original content for these 2 series of games in the future, instead we will let other developers, like obsidian, and external content creators (modders basically) do our work for us, while we just give it a thumb up or down during their development project stages, then cash in ." Its pretty much what Valve is doing at this point.I'm not saying this is bad, because if they actually do pay attention on the content release and make sure its not bugged or broken, and if it is then take responsibility for it, then we will get some great "mods". Problem is that this might affect future content they release, as we've seen (at least with fallout 4) , they didn't even make an effort to properly polish the game, which they, in my opinion, have unofficially relied on the modding comunity to bring some of those basic and necessary polishes , like junk mods (yeah cleaning some damned leafs or trash out of the house should of been a thing) or the countless patch fixes they never even attempted to make. Now i see future games like TES6 (if they ever make it, AND YES i am looking at you Valve, where is the next Half life?) , being released as a basic platform with countless "holes" to be filled by the creation club, in the attempt to milk even more money from us. Edited June 25, 2017 by HeArTBeaT15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Beth wanted a way to monetize mods. Creation club is their answer. They get full control, and, for a small investment, ALL the profit. I am not really seeing anything new on the website...... Not sure what this means for paid mods a la the first iteration. That would tend to dry up beths labor pool, so, I am not sure they are gonna go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowerguy360 Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 The last few posts bring me back to one of my points in my last post: Is Bethesda going to just pay the mod authors a small, lump sum, and then they just cash in on the royalties? Or is the mod author going to get a share of the "credits," and if so, how much of each dollar does a mod author earn for their work? I hate to say it, but it is almost a certainty that - in the end - Bethesda takes the lion's share of the profits from the mod author's work and ideas. I am all for the mod authors getting paid and getting a foot in the door to the industry, if this actually results in that. But I still feel like this is going to hurt the quantity and quality of free mods available, and I still feel like mod authors are going to be getting the short end of the stick with this arrangement. It feels very much like online news sites telling a writer that they will publish that writer's article, but they won't pay for that writer's work, because that writer will be getting exposure (which ultimately means nothing except non-payment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGreatWeight Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 No, it's not one of those "we can give you exposure" types of situation that certain unscrupulous companies/businesses/individuals try to fool creative people with (I've plenty of first hand experience of this) as that sort of thing would not be in Bethesda's best interests when it comes to Creation Club being a success. From all the information publicly available, it appears that Bethesda will treat mod authors accepted into Creation Club as contractors, so they will recieve payment whilst they work on content for Bethesda. In all likelihood, once work is complete, that content becomes the sole property of Bethesda & they will then sell it and profit from it - this is standard practice when it comes to contract work; you're paid whilst you work on whatever the project is, and when the project is complete you have no rights or ownership to the work, nor profits made from said work. There is no information available regarding the amounts that Bethesda will be paying contractors (outside devs/mod authors) as those participating have probably signed NDA's, however it'd be foolish to think that Bethesda will be paying a pittance; do you really think that content creators are going to get involved & sign on the dotted line if their not earning a reasonable (i.e. living) rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldiabs Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 No matter what way anyone tries to spin it, this is the official introduction of microtransactions into bethesda games. We all know from every other microtransaction driven game where that eventually leads. These 'creators' (internal or external) are helping issue in that change to the fallout and elder scrolls games. I'll not support any of them. Best of luck making money to them, whatever floats your boat. I still think it's jacked up no matter how you look at it or try to make it sound like a very select few modders are finally getting their fair pay day for their efforts. That's never what any of it was about (at least to most of us). Now it is. Bethesda finally found a way to bank on the efforts of the community (not the user community, the modding community). Well...more than before, even though the only reason their games last as long is because of the modding community. What's so funny about all of this is the external 'creators' are such a small, most likely insignificant part of it in the big scheme of things. They'll be nothing more than small time contractors for a microtransaction machine that's internal driven for the majority of the content. I'm sure a few of them will most likely walk away with a bit of cash for their efforts. Yay for them I guess. And despite what I've been told numerous times I am still not convinced they won't pursue dmca claims (which take about 30 seconds to fill out and send) if content by modders directly conflicts with something in their microtransaction club. Maybe not on these games due to how entrenched modding is, but what about future games and content? How long will it take for them to release the creation tools for future games to the community now? Time will tell there. Hope I'm dead wrong. They haven't exactly covered any of this from what I've read on their website. Think the full size dlc are rough now? Wait until the shareholders get a look at the time to profit margins of microtransactions vs full size dlc. How much content will be cut from future games to dribble out through their club? They even say a majority of the content is coming from their internal devs in the about section. Hahaha. Come on. Couldn't they have just done another full sized dlc with that dev time? Or drop it all for 5 bucks? Wonder why they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 No matter what way anyone tries to spin it, this is the official introduction of microtransactions into bethesda games. We all know from every other microtransaction driven game where that eventually leads. These 'creators' (internal or external) are helping issue in that change to the fallout and elder scrolls games. I'll not support any of them. Best of luck making money to them, whatever floats your boat. I still think it's jacked up no matter how you look at it or try to make it sound like a very select few modders are finally getting their fair pay day for their efforts. That's never what any of it was about (at least to most of us). Now it is. Bethesda finally found a way to bank on the efforts of the community (not the user community, the modding community). Well...more than before, even though the only reason their games last as long is because of the modding community. What's so funny about all of this is the external 'creators' are such a small, most likely insignificant part of it in the big scheme of things. They'll be nothing more than small time contractors for a microtransaction machine that's internal driven for the majority of the content. I'm sure a few of them will most likely walk away with a bit of cash for their efforts. Yay for them I guess. And despite what I've been told numerous times I am still not convinced they won't pursue dmca claims (which take about 30 seconds to fill out and send) if content by modders directly conflicts with something in their microtransaction club. Maybe not on these games due to how entrenched modding is, but what about future games and content? How long will it take for them to release the creation tools for future games to the community now? Time will tell there. Hope I'm dead wrong. They haven't exactly covered any of this from what I've read on their website. Think the full size dlc are rough now? Wait until the shareholders get a look at the time to profit margins of microtransactions vs full size dlc. How much content will be cut from future games to dribble out through their club? They even say a majority of the content is coming from their internal devs in the about section. Hahaha. Come on. Couldn't they have just done another full sized dlc with that dev time? Or drop it all for 5 bucks? Wonder why they didn't. Microtransactions imply that you will be buying something frequently, for whatever cost. That is not the case here. If you see a mod you like in the creation club, you buy it once, and it is yours forever and ever, amen. It's not like you are buying a consumable resource, or some such, that you have to refresh your supply of frequently. Not at all. Creation Club is additional Official content. They aren't going to be churning out something new, that everyone just must have, every ten minutes. You are buying trouble you don't have, and likely never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldiabs Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 No matter what way anyone tries to spin it, this is the official introduction of microtransactions into bethesda games. We all know from every other microtransaction driven game where that eventually leads. These 'creators' (internal or external) are helping issue in that change to the fallout and elder scrolls games. I'll not support any of them. Best of luck making money to them, whatever floats your boat. I still think it's jacked up no matter how you look at it or try to make it sound like a very select few modders are finally getting their fair pay day for their efforts. That's never what any of it was about (at least to most of us). Now it is. Bethesda finally found a way to bank on the efforts of the community (not the user community, the modding community). Well...more than before, even though the only reason their games last as long is because of the modding community. What's so funny about all of this is the external 'creators' are such a small, most likely insignificant part of it in the big scheme of things. They'll be nothing more than small time contractors for a microtransaction machine that's internal driven for the majority of the content. I'm sure a few of them will most likely walk away with a bit of cash for their efforts. Yay for them I guess. And despite what I've been told numerous times I am still not convinced they won't pursue dmca claims (which take about 30 seconds to fill out and send) if content by modders directly conflicts with something in their microtransaction club. Maybe not on these games due to how entrenched modding is, but what about future games and content? How long will it take for them to release the creation tools for future games to the community now? Time will tell there. Hope I'm dead wrong. They haven't exactly covered any of this from what I've read on their website. Think the full size dlc are rough now? Wait until the shareholders get a look at the time to profit margins of microtransactions vs full size dlc. How much content will be cut from future games to dribble out through their club? They even say a majority of the content is coming from their internal devs in the about section. Hahaha. Come on. Couldn't they have just done another full sized dlc with that dev time? Or drop it all for 5 bucks? Wonder why they didn't. Microtransactions imply that you will be buying something frequently, for whatever cost. That is not the case here. If you see a mod you like in the creation club, you buy it once, and it is yours forever and ever, amen. It's not like you are buying a consumable resource, or some such, that you have to refresh your supply of frequently. Not at all. Creation Club is additional Official content. They aren't going to be churning out something new, that everyone just must have, every ten minutes. You are buying trouble you don't have, and likely never will. mi·cro·trans·ac·tionˌmīkrōtranˈzakSH(ə)n/noun a very small financial transaction conducted online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 No matter what way anyone tries to spin it, this is the official introduction of microtransactions into bethesda games. We all know from every other microtransaction driven game where that eventually leads. These 'creators' (internal or external) are helping issue in that change to the fallout and elder scrolls games. I'll not support any of them. Best of luck making money to them, whatever floats your boat. I still think it's jacked up no matter how you look at it or try to make it sound like a very select few modders are finally getting their fair pay day for their efforts. That's never what any of it was about (at least to most of us). Now it is. Bethesda finally found a way to bank on the efforts of the community (not the user community, the modding community). Well...more than before, even though the only reason their games last as long is because of the modding community. What's so funny about all of this is the external 'creators' are such a small, most likely insignificant part of it in the big scheme of things. They'll be nothing more than small time contractors for a microtransaction machine that's internal driven for the majority of the content. I'm sure a few of them will most likely walk away with a bit of cash for their efforts. Yay for them I guess. And despite what I've been told numerous times I am still not convinced they won't pursue dmca claims (which take about 30 seconds to fill out and send) if content by modders directly conflicts with something in their microtransaction club. Maybe not on these games due to how entrenched modding is, but what about future games and content? How long will it take for them to release the creation tools for future games to the community now? Time will tell there. Hope I'm dead wrong. They haven't exactly covered any of this from what I've read on their website. Think the full size dlc are rough now? Wait until the shareholders get a look at the time to profit margins of microtransactions vs full size dlc. How much content will be cut from future games to dribble out through their club? They even say a majority of the content is coming from their internal devs in the about section. Hahaha. Come on. Couldn't they have just done another full sized dlc with that dev time? Or drop it all for 5 bucks? Wonder why they didn't. Microtransactions imply that you will be buying something frequently, for whatever cost. That is not the case here. If you see a mod you like in the creation club, you buy it once, and it is yours forever and ever, amen. It's not like you are buying a consumable resource, or some such, that you have to refresh your supply of frequently. Not at all. Creation Club is additional Official content. They aren't going to be churning out something new, that everyone just must have, every ten minutes. You are buying trouble you don't have, and likely never will. mi·cro·trans·ac·tionˌmīkrōtranˈzakSH(ə)n/noun a very small financial transaction conducted online. Please define "very small". a buck? Less? More? Again, this is buy it once, and you are done. it isn't something you need to refresh on a regular basis. There aren't going to be any 'repeat' sales here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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