An update on Vortex development

[telewin]

So about 2-3 weeks of waiting and Vortex will be testable for the rest of the community. YEAY. :)

I can wait, I look forward to see what Vortex can do and I DO look forward to play Fallout 4 and Skyrim again, but this time with Vortex.

 

Cheering you on. :)

[Deleted133263User]

 

In response to post #56822411.

~ The only barriers that exist are the mod authors, Nexus, and those like you who like to make fallacious experienced arguments against it that don't actually hold up to scrutiny.

 

 

My bold and correction - FTFY :). Your scrutiny is selectively biased.

 

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My my, there are quite a few unnecessarily dramatic responses in this topic.

 

If Nexus and Tannin think its a worth while addition to implement, they will add it.

 

Calm your tits, its just a mod manager for games, anyone would think you were arguing Trumps sanity :P

 

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@Tannin - Is there any chance Vortex will be able to support Wrye Bash Wizard scripts ?

 

The reverse is being planned for inclusion in a future version of Wrye Bash (GandaG who did pyfomod is now on the team), in that it may well support mods with FOMod scripting, and so would be able to support any mod on nexus without the need to necro long gone Authors from their peace, and there would no longer need to be authors understanding and incorporating both scripting methods (which we currently do if we wish to ensure our mod can be installed by whatever mod manager is being used).

 

There are a lot of mods out there that are still one or the other, the most prolific unfortunately being FOMods with a wide variety of ideas on packaging logic (or rather confusing mess for anyone trying to follow the scripting to determine where every file should go and what choices to make where needed for any other mod manager being used instead). Beermotor has been making a sterling effort on conversions recently, but this is not a common practice across all games.

 

Ideally, all mod managers supporting the two main scripting methods would be great, defaulting to native scripting when both are present in the mod.

 

I realise this is not insignificant, and would be a low priority.

[Deleted133263User]

+ One more for @Tannin

 

Could you please NOT include a warning about Fake esm (ie an .esp flagged as .esm) - Nexus Mod Manager still does this apparently and its a PITA.

 

The amount of times this comes up in the Unofficial Patch comments from people not understanding it and requesting advice from the Unofficial patch team is ridiculous.

 

Its a valid modding technique, and in the case of the unofficial patches is necessary.

[MarchinBunny]

In response to post #56964611.

alt3rn1ty wrote:

 

In response to post #56822411.

~ The only barriers that exist are the mod authors, Nexus, and those like you who like to make fallacious experienced arguments against it that don't actually hold up to scrutiny.

 

 

My bold and correction - FTFY :). Your scrutiny is selectively biased.

 

--------------

 

My my, there are quite a few unnecessarily dramatic responses in this topic.

 

If Nexus and Tannin think its a worth while addition to implement, they will add it.

 

Calm your tits, its just a mod manager for games, anyone would think you were arguing Trumps sanity :P

 

--------------

 

@Tannin - Is there any chance Vortex will be able to support Wrye Bash Wizard scripts ?

 

The reverse is being planned for inclusion in a future version of Wrye Bash (GandaG who did pyfomod is now on the team), in that it may well support mods with FOMod scripting, and so would be able to support any mod on nexus without the need to necro long gone Authors from their peace, and there would no longer need to be authors understanding and incorporating both scripting methods (which we currently do if we wish to ensure our mod can be installed by whatever mod manager is being used).

 

There are a lot of mods out there that are still one or the other, the most prolific unfortunately being FOMods with a wide variety of ideas on packaging logic (or rather confusing mess for anyone trying to follow the scripting to determine where every file should go and what choices to make where needed for any other mod manager being used instead). Beermotor has been making a sterling effort on conversions recently, but this is not a common practice across all games.

 

Ideally, all mod managers supporting the two main scripting methods would be great, defaulting to native scripting when both are present in the mod.

 

I realise this is not insignificant, and would be a low priority.

Your fix is just plain wrong. You can't just make a claim without backing it up. That is why it's called a fallacious argument. If you want to actually make a decent argument please don't start it with being rude. Back it up with actual evidence like I have. I will do it again and again as much as I have to. Curse is a website that exists with a client that literally does what others are suggesting is not possible here. This is a fact whether you like it or not, and you trying to "correct" what I wrote for me does not change this. If we are talking about experience, there is a massive site called Curse you can go ahead and ask.

Also, you clearly don't know what selective bias is cause you are using the term wrong. Selective bias is like if you are doing a study but instead of choosing at random to participate in this study, you select individuals that will skew the results more in your favor. Seriously, if you can't even learn to use a dictionary, don't you try to correct me. >.>

Also, calm your tits is a terrible response. The reason things are getting heated is because of people who come here trying to slap the idea down without any good reason to do so. They come here presenting arguments that really are not very good or are a none issue.

The other reason is because of rude comments like yours. Edited January 23, 2018 by Brabbit1987

[Deleted133263User]

Ookay mea culpa, I am such a horrible person, and stand in fear of your tirade of corrections (apologies if there is anything grammatically wrong here :rolleyes: )

https://xkcd.com/386/

 

Edit : PS "Calm your tits" was not directed at yourself (hence the dividing line splitting up the response ----- ), but if the cap fits ..

 

Any chance of getting back on topic now mister angry ?, or are my questions @Tannin going to go past on yet another page of useless arguing ?

Edited January 23, 2018 by Guest

[MarchinBunny]

In response to post #56982131.

alt3rn1ty wrote:

Ookay mea culpa, I am such a horrible person, and stand in fear of your tirade of corrections (apologies if there is anything grammatically wrong here :rolleyes: )

https://xkcd.com/386/

 

Edit : PS "Calm your tits" was not directed at yourself (hence the dividing line splitting up the response ----- ), but if the cap fits ..

 

Any chance of getting back on topic now mister angry ?, or are my questions @Tannin going to go past on yet another page of useless arguing ?

Lol, that's a pretty funny comic panel.
And if the "calm your tits" was not directed at me, then sorry. The line didn't necessarily indicate it wasn't directed at me.

[HeyYou]

We aren't saying it isn't possible, we are saying it isn't practical.

[MarchinBunny]

In response to post #57138511.

HeyYou wrote:

We aren't saying it isn't possible, we are saying it isn't practical.

I really don't understand how one could claim it's not practical. Even just downloading a group of recommended mods is more useful than having to download them individually because it saves time. Steam Workshop essentially does this, and it's very practical.

Let's say a friend has made a load order and you want to play with the same load order. It's a lot easier and far more practical to have a button that would download all the mods in the load order, then have to do it individually. Even if you still needed to know about modding (like if it isn't able to do everything for you), this still makes the task considerably faster and easier. Can you give me a reason why that isn't practical? And how is it more practical to go to each mod individually to download them in such a case?

Or another good example. The STEP guide. How is it not practical to have a button that would download all the mods you need? All it's doing is saving time. If you can go a step further and make it so it is able to do more than just download the mods where it's a one-click install, then it's even more practical.

Modded Minecraft does this and it's the most popular way to mod because of literally how practical it is. Edited January 29, 2018 by Brabbit1987

[AGreatWeight]

 

The only barriers that exist are the mod authors, Nexus, and those like you who like to make fallacious arguments against it that don't actually hold up to scrutiny.

The rights of a mod author to allow/disallow redistribution of the content that they've created is not superseded by your (or anyone elses) convenience. Nexus tried it out, put it to the test, and realized that it will just create even more problems for everyone concerned, and ultimately isn't worth it. How ridiculous do you have to be to attempt to blame mod authors who assert their rights, Nexus who respects said rights, or those individuals who point out the dangers inherent in the very concept of modpacks, on the fundamental flaws of modpacks themselves?

Just from the example with ModDrop, and various Youtubers (who considering their standing in the community, really should have known better) who openly violated mod author rights by illegally redistributing mods, against the wishes of the authors involved, circumventing the entire point of mod authors hosting their mods here at Nexusmods.

Modding is not some sort of spectator sport, it demands investment of time and energy in order to learn best practices, as well as to get the most out of it. Modpacks actually create a disincentive for users to learn safe practices, by offering everything up in an all-you-can-eat buffet, free from concern. I won't even go into the disaster just waiting to happen regarding mod theft/piracy/illegal redistribution, as we already have those to deal with unfortunately, even at this stage. However, modpacks have the huge potential to encourage this kind of behaviour on a scale not yet seen.

Modpacks fuel ignorance, and in the long term, this is a very bad idea, that proponents of modpacks seem blissfully unaware of, or unwilling to acknowledge. Of all the various forum threads here and in other places, I've not seen a single mention by those who champion modpacks, regarding the negative long-term consequences of implimenting such a plug-n-play system. Besides, we already have such a system in place that offers immediate access and convenience to users with none of the hassle, it's called Creation Club... and a large portion of users actively hate it, and continue to rail against it.

Right now, as of this very moment, the only barrier to entry regarding using mods is a users knowledge (and willingness to learn) I've yet to see any real compelling argument from those in favour of modpacks that the subsequent problems that they will create, can be steadfastly and safely navigated, without infringing on the rights of others, or damaging the (delicate and fragile) ecosphere of the mod community here.

[HeyYou]

 

In response to post #57138511.

 

 

 

HeyYou wrote:

We aren't saying it isn't possible, we are saying it isn't practical.

I really don't understand how one could claim it's not practical. Even just downloading a group of recommended mods is more useful than having to download them individually because it saves time. Steam Workshop essentially does this, and it's very practical.

 

Let's say a friend has made a load order and you want to play with the same load order. It's a lot easier and far more practical to have a button that would download all the mods in the load order, then have to do it individually. Even if you still needed to know about modding (like if it isn't able to do everything for you), this still makes the task considerably faster and easier. Can you give me a reason why that isn't practical? And how is it more practical to go to each mod individually to download them in such a case?

 

Or another good example. The STEP guide. How is it not practical to have a button that would download all the mods you need? All it's doing is saving time. If you can go a step further and make it so it is able to do more than just download the mods where it's a one-click install, then it's even more practical.

 

Modded Minecraft does this and it's the most popular way to mod because of literally how practical it is.

 

Comparing a beth game to Minecraft, is like comparing a model T to a Bugatti veyron. The games are similar only in superficial ways. There is FAR more going on under the hood in beth games. Pretty much apples vs. hand grenades.