Jpwolf69 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 In response to post #57152076. HeyYou wrote: In response to post #57138511. HeyYou wrote: We aren't saying it isn't possible, we are saying it isn't practical.I really don't understand how one could claim it's not practical. Even just downloading a group of recommended mods is more useful than having to download them individually because it saves time. Steam Workshop essentially does this, and it's very practical.Let's say a friend has made a load order and you want to play with the same load order. It's a lot easier and far more practical to have a button that would download all the mods in the load order, then have to do it individually. Even if you still needed to know about modding (like if it isn't able to do everything for you), this still makes the task considerably faster and easier. Can you give me a reason why that isn't practical? And how is it more practical to go to each mod individually to download them in such a case?Or another good example. The STEP guide. How is it not practical to have a button that would download all the mods you need? All it's doing is saving time. If you can go a step further and make it so it is able to do more than just download the mods where it's a one-click install, then it's even more practical.Modded Minecraft does this and it's the most popular way to mod because of literally how practical it is. Comparing a beth game to Minecraft, is like comparing a model T to a Bugatti veyron. The games are similar only in superficial ways. There is FAR more going on under the hood in beth games. Pretty much apples vs. hand grenades.I thought that some mods requires certain other mods in order for it to work properly and also there are mods that requires them to be placed specifically in the Load Order such as either above or below other mods. That is why there is a part on the Mod page called Description. This tells what the mod is and what it is used for and some mods use this as to how to install the mod and where to place it the Load Order. They also tell you how to uninstall the mod as well.It is always important to read the Description page before downloading the mod. Plus, it is also important to go to the Post page or even the Bug page to read if someone encounters any problem or problems with the mod. Because sometimes either the mod author or other mod authors can give helpful advice on how to resolve any issues. Remember, always read the Description Page First and then go to either the Post page or Bug page in case there are any problem or problems other people have encountered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarchinBunny Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 In response to post #57141956. AGreatWeight wrote: The only barriers that exist are the mod authors, Nexus, and those like you who like to make fallacious arguments against it that don't actually hold up to scrutiny.The rights of a mod author to allow/disallow redistribution of the content that they've created is not superseded by your (or anyone elses) convenience. Nexus tried it out, put it to the test, and realized that it will just create even more problems for everyone concerned, and ultimately isn't worth it. How ridiculous do you have to be to attempt to blame mod authors who assert their rights, Nexus who respects said rights, or those individuals who point out the dangers inherent in the very concept of modpacks, on the fundamental flaws of modpacks themselves?Just from the example with ModDrop, and various Youtubers (who considering their standing in the community, really should have known better) who openly violated mod author rights by illegally redistributing mods, against the wishes of the authors involved, circumventing the entire point of mod authors hosting their mods here at Nexusmods.Modding is not some sort of spectator sport, it demands investment of time and energy in order to learn best practices, as well as to get the most out of it. Modpacks actually create a disincentive for users to learn safe practices, by offering everything up in an all-you-can-eat buffet, free from concern. I won't even go into the disaster just waiting to happen regarding mod theft/piracy/illegal redistribution, as we already have those to deal with unfortunately, even at this stage. However, modpacks have the huge potential to encourage this kind of behaviour on a scale not yet seen.Modpacks fuel ignorance, and in the long term, this is a very bad idea, that proponents of modpacks seem blissfully unaware of, or unwilling to acknowledge. Of all the various forum threads here and in other places, I've not seen a single mention by those who champion modpacks, regarding the negative long-term consequences of implimenting such a plug-n-play system. Besides, we already have such a system in place that offers immediate access and convenience to users with none of the hassle, it's called Creation Club... and a large portion of users actively hate it, and continue to rail against it.Right now, as of this very moment, the only barrier to entry regarding using mods is a users knowledge (and willingness to learn) I've yet to see any real compelling argument from those in favour of modpacks that the subsequent problems that they will create, can be steadfastly and safely navigated, without infringing on the rights of others, or damaging the (delicate and fragile) ecosphere of the mod community here.I have every right to say what the barriers are whether you like it or not. It's not ridiculous when it's true.I also have every right to give my opinion and say they don't know what they are talking about when they say it wouldn't work well.ModDrop is only a good example of having it done wrong. The files were stolen and hosted somewhere else without the author's permission. What I am suggesting is a system that remains here on the Nexus. I got news for you, there is no violation of rights occurring if people are not hosting the files somewhere else and they are still receiving it from where their mod author posted it.The safe practices crap is only a Nexus / Skyrim elitest sort of excuse. In reality, there is nothing actually wrong with making something easier to use. Even if it does mean people don't learn these "best practices". If they don't need to learn it because it just works, then it doesn't matter. It's the same reason a person can drive a car but not understand how it works.Mod theft is not a problem because as I said the files are literally hosted here. It wouldn't be any more of a problem than it is now. The modpacks don't have the literal mods in it, it just has a list and grabs them directly from here. To me, it sounds like you didn't read a whole lot of the conversation that has been going on in here other wsie you would have known that. It also does not encourage it. Because again, the mods are not being redistributed in any way. You want an example of how it works, go to curse forge, download the Twitch client and install a few mods into a game they support. Then download a modpack. It all comes from the same source. The client downloads the files individually, it just has a list to go off of.As for modpacks fueling ignorance. I think that is a ridiculous argument. As I said, I don't need to learn how a car works in order to drive it. I don't have to build a car myself in order to have one. Buying a car may "fuel" ignorance, but unless you can explain why that ignorance is bad, it's a pretty terrible argument.There are no long time consequences to speak of. Again, go look at curse forge, they been doing for years and only good has come of it. You are just trying to make up crap in order to support your argument. But if it really had long-term consequences, then show me that is the case. Where have you seen these long term consequences, cause I got news for you. I don't see them in communities that have modpacks.Creation Club is hated because of very different reasons. Don't try to use that as an argument. They are paid for mods, that is a huge reason all on its own why people dislike it. Stop using fallacious arguments. You know the creation club is hated for other reasons, not because it plug n play .. I mean seriously I can't believe you attempted to use that as a point >.>. Such a dishonest argument. There is no damage, there is plenty of mod communities that use modpacks, the community here is just ridiculously uptight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarchinBunny Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 In response to post #57152076. #57164596 is also a reply to the same post.HeyYou wrote: In response to post #57138511. HeyYou wrote: We aren't saying it isn't possible, we are saying it isn't practical.I really don't understand how one could claim it's not practical. Even just downloading a group of recommended mods is more useful than having to download them individually because it saves time. Steam Workshop essentially does this, and it's very practical.Let's say a friend has made a load order and you want to play with the same load order. It's a lot easier and far more practical to have a button that would download all the mods in the load order, then have to do it individually. Even if you still needed to know about modding (like if it isn't able to do everything for you), this still makes the task considerably faster and easier. Can you give me a reason why that isn't practical? And how is it more practical to go to each mod individually to download them in such a case?Or another good example. The STEP guide. How is it not practical to have a button that would download all the mods you need? All it's doing is saving time. If you can go a step further and make it so it is able to do more than just download the mods where it's a one-click install, then it's even more practical.Modded Minecraft does this and it's the most popular way to mod because of literally how practical it is. Comparing a beth game to Minecraft, is like comparing a model T to a Bugatti veyron. The games are similar only in superficial ways. There is FAR more going on under the hood in beth games. Pretty much apples vs. hand grenades.Jpwolf69 wrote: I thought that some mods requires certain other mods in order for it to work properly and also there are mods that requires them to be placed specifically in the Load Order such as either above or below other mods. That is why there is a part on the Mod page called Description. This tells what the mod is and what it is used for and some mods use this as to how to install the mod and where to place it the Load Order. They also tell you how to uninstall the mod as well.It is always important to read the Description page before downloading the mod. Plus, it is also important to go to the Post page or even the Bug page to read if someone encounters any problem or problems with the mod. Because sometimes either the mod author or other mod authors can give helpful advice on how to resolve any issues. Remember, always read the Description Page First and then go to either the Post page or Bug page in case there are any problem or problems other people have encountered.The games don't have to be similar to make a point. The modding is complicated in both games, but it ultimately would work the same. @Jpwolf69Plenty of mods in Minecraft require other mods. It's a mod pack, they include the mods the other mods need. It's not complicated. In fact, the curse/twitch client will download required mods automatically. If you install a mod that requires a library, it will also download that library.Load order is also not a problem, it's just a file that tells the client what order to place mods in. It's literally a copy and paste sort of job. Not complicated. I can take all the information one one load order, and all the mods and copy it over to a different computer and it will work fine as long as I am not missing anything that is required.There is a lot of ways one can do this and make it work. The biggest difference between Curse and Nexus is Curse keeps all old files, while Nexus allows the mod author to decide if they want to remove it or not. There are several ways to solve this problem.1. You no longer allow mod authors to delete old files. This is not a way they want to go about it because it takes away a bit of control. However, it is a way that still exists.2. The modpack just installs the latest version of the mod. This can work quite often, at least in the case of Skyrim and Fallout because most updates to mods don't typically break entire games. This is more of a problem with updating during an already existing game, which is something most people who use mod packs likely would not do. Only if there is a game breaking bug that an update is needed.3. The best solution besides solution 1 is to use notifications and choices. If a mod authors delete a version of their mod, it will notify anyone who has included it in a mod pack that they made. This will help those who make mod packs keep things up to date, and aware of any possible issues. Then when a person downloads a pack with a version of a mod missing it will give two options. One, download the new version, or two, don't install the mod. In the case of option two the client would check to see if there are any required mods and also not include those unless they are needed for another mod. The load order will be the same just minus those mods. These two options would work the majority of the time for a game like Skyrim and Fallout.The only other issue with modpacks is there are a lot of mods that generate unique files. The solution here would be to include those unique files in the mod pack. So the user does not have to generate it themselves. The exception being things like DynDOLOD. I would say that just can't be included in a modpack. Sacrifices will have to be made for those who want to go the modpack route, but to people who never modded before and are not very good at it, I think they wouldn't care all that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted1205226User Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Isn't this thread about Vortex development? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFiNo Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Isn't this thread about Vortex development?It started out to be, but it appears......is the term hijacked correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmm200 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Given that we have a large set of mods installed with NMM 0.63.14, hard links and all, how hard is it going to be to switch over to Vortex? what about switching back to NMM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarchinBunny Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 In response to post #57171721. pixelhate wrote: Isn't this thread about Vortex development?Well, it is still about Vortex. The whole modpack debate has to do with a feature some people want to be a part of Vortex. I mean, at the very least it's related. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
len4ik Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Old designe is better !!! ??????? ?????? ??????!! ??? ??????????!!! ?????? ?? ?????, ???????????? ??????????! ?????? ????? ??????? ???????? ? ???????? ? ????. ????? ??? ?????((((( ??????????, ?? ????????? ?????? ??????!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fujin92 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Old designe is better !!! ??????? ?????? ??????!! ??? ??????????!!! ?????? ?? ?????, ???????????? ??????????! ?????? ????? ??????? ???????? ? ???????? ? ????. ????? ??? ?????((((( ??????????, ?? ????????? ?????? ??????!!!this type of comment doesn't help nor is funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragthemercenary Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I've been a member of the Nexus for years, now, and this is the first time I've heard of Vortex. Is this being developed for Skyrim? It would be absolutely great, if it was. A group of mods to download to a vanilla game, all of which function well together, and make the game more stable. It's a dream come true (after many years of learning how and when to add certain mods). I've got the computer to handle just about anything. My favorite game is still Skyrim. Please tell me whether I understand Vortex, or not, and let me know how it's progressing. Thanks ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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