Managing the Load Order...

[z4x]

Not sure if its right topic, but is there an option to change priority of mods (not plugins)? Aka what overrides what? Also if there is way to see conflicts?

[Reidlos]

Vortex needs an advanced mode, loot isn't a 1 stop shop even started by the loot team. For basic everyday use by New comers it's great but if they flat out refuse to throw a bone to mod makers and heavy duty mod users [with knowledge of how this works] that's a good chunk of the community they are flipping the finger to.

 

Vortex is looking good overall but will dead for a subset of us

[SkunkMonkey]

Not sure if its right topic, but is there an option to change priority of mods (not plugins)? Aka what overrides what? Also if there is way to see conflicts?

 

 

Not sure if its right topic, but is there an option to change priority of mods (not plugins)? Aka what overrides what? Also if there is way to see conflicts?

 

If there is a conflict, a red lightning bolt will appear next to the dependencies icon in the list. If the lightning bolt is green, it means there are conflicts but a rule has been set to address it. Clicking on the dependencies icon will show what overrides are set.

 

Vortex needs an advanced mode, loot isn't a 1 stop shop even started by the loot team. For basic everyday use by New comers it's great but if they flat out refuse to throw a bone to mod makers and heavy duty mod users [with knowledge of how this works] that's a good chunk of the community they are flipping the finger to.

 

Vortex is looking good overall but will dead for a subset of us

 

What do you mean by "Advanced mode"? A little elaboration on that will go a long way in determining what might be changed to address your issues. As it stands, your post really doesn't do much other than sound like whining.

 

I happen to be an advanced/heavy mod user and I find that Vortex does what I need and allows me to create profiles with over 200 mods.

[Dahveed]

Yeah sorry but OP is being completely ridiculous.

 

Not being able to manually sort my load order is utterly idiotic.

 

I just xfered all my Oblivion mods over using the transfer tool and the very first thing I tried to do was drag-and-drop mods to start sorting my load order, and I couldn't figure out how to do it. I googled it because surely I was missing something. Surely a brand new mod manager which is supposed to eventually replace my other managers one day and set the new standard would have something so utterly basic.

 

Apparently I was wrong. What a disaster.

 

I mean this is like going to a movie theatre and they don't have chairs. It's THAT level of idiocy.

[Grestorn]

Dahveed, you're just wrong. On so many levels. Manual ordering of plugins is bound to cause problems.

 

Just try to understand the principle before you judge. Especially before you call other people idiotic.

[Dahveed]

@Grestorn

 

I'm sorry for the harsh language but that's truly what I think. Taking away our ability to do perhaps the most basic, fundamental thing in modding is an absolute disaster.

 

I don't want other people deciding for me what my load order will be. Of course I'm open to suggestions, and I think generally speaking tools like LOOT are fantastic guides. But ultimately I am the one who should be in control.

 

I understand the underlying premise, but less user control is a terrible idea. The beautiful simplicity of the "drag and drop" technique is where all mod managers should remain, and I won't budge on that.

 

If Vortex releases without this basic feature I'll definitely NEVER use it.

[Grestorn]

The point is, there is no compromise between an algorithmic sort and a manual sort. The algorithmic sort would always override and change a manual sort and people would complain about that. So why even allow it?

 

Secondly, there are clear technical rules that make certain sortings necessary. Many people don't know about these and there's no easy way to show them, too. How should manual sorting make this obvious?

 

Actually the way NMM did it, was the horrible way. Just because there was no other way back then. LOOT and the previous tool (forgot its name) were created much later, when NMM was already established, and they were only added as an afterthought to it. People who didn't use them ran into problems sooner or later, causing endless frustrations.

 

And lastly, you still have all the control over the sorting process you'd want to have. I just don't get it, why anyone would ever want to try to sort manually instead of spending 5 minutes to understand how they can achieve a certain sorting they - for whatever reason - want to have.

[sopmac45]

I like Vortex simplicity, just setup my rules in the MODS tab, let Vortex to auto-sort my plugins and place all my patches in the Dynamic Patches group. Vortex is fast, simple, reliable and straight to the point. I am not missing the drag and drop function from NMM at all.

 

From the time I install my last mod to the time I place my patches in the Dynamic Patches group, is not longer than 3-5 minutes and after that, I am playing my game, which is running perfectly fine. In my case, I do prefer less control because Vortex is doing much better than me.

[Dahveed]

Because it's MY COMPUTER, not YOUR COMPUTER, and I can do whatever i damn well please?

 

I hate this mentality that "big brother knows best" and wants to prevent stupid ol' me from having control over my own s#*!.

 

Also, even if we assume that you are correct, what happens when the algorithms make mistakes? When a new mod comes out and doesn't nicely fit into the categories? That these "rules" don't apply properly? The program just flat out breaks and puts my mod in the wrong place?

 

No, I'm not letting a computer program have the final say. If I see a clear mistake, a mod that is out of place, I don't want to wait for an algorithm to fix it and I don't want to tinker with some settings for 20 minutes. I just want to look at the mod and say to myself "I don't want that there" and just drag and drop it.

 

I truly don't understand why anyone would be against this. Unless you think I'm too dumb, despite having modded dozens of games for the past 7 years. Big Brother knows best, eh?

[Dark0ne]

The inherent issue is that this "most basic of features" has been the cause of countless user created issues due to a lack of understanding over how load orders work, and how best to set them up. This wouldn't necessarily be a problem if the general user was able to be more understanding that many of the issues with their game not working as intended is, typically, actually due to how they've set things up, and not the mods or mod authors fault. However, as it stands, mod authors have to deal with A LOT of support issues directed against them and/or their mods that actually stem from load order issues because users think they're more advanced and knowledgeable than they actually are.

 

Your posts here showcase the sort of rudeness mod authors have to deal with daily. Being blamed for things due to a clear lack of understanding on the users part.

 

Vortex still enables you to organise your load orders how you see fit, but it does it in a different way. For 95% of users the way Vortex approaches load orders will be more efficient, more hands-off and more "newcomer" friendly while, generally, providing a less buggy gaming experience right off the bat. For those 5% of users who want or need more granular control, they can do so using the grouping system provided.

 

We're not going to do things just because "that's how its always been done", nor are we going to do things differently just to be different. With Vortex, we've come up with a system we think is going to be better for the vast majority of users, if they're open to trying a different way than they were originally used to.

 

We are trying to move away from the "accepted norms" of Bethesda modding that has resulted in some very bad habits forming in core parts of the community. Bad habits like the incessant and often unnecessary need to mess with load orders to the smallest detail that has lead to users unwittingly breaking the game entirely without them even knowing, and mod authors simply telling their users to put their mods "at the bottom" of their load orders because it's easier that way and it means they have to deal with less issues (but potentially other mod authors have to deal with more), which in itself, can cause issues as well.

 

We understand how load orders work and we understand that, sometimes, automated systems and algorithms aren't going to cut it and you ARE going to need some granular control over your load order. Users still have that, it's just being dealt with differently to the drag and drop system of previous mod managers.

 

If that means you're out then..fine. But we've had several users (some who were even ruder) who've had your initial reaction to the lack of a drag and drop system in this very thread who now use Vortex officially as their only mod manager and say they now completely understand why we've done it this way and like it. We'd like to work on making our tools better for those people, rather than those people who want to cling to other ways of doing it for no reason other than "that's the way it's always been done".