Patreon page for our Donation Points system

[Arthmoor]

In response to post #60914602. #60914912, #60915742, #60916482 are all replies on the same post.

SkylerModder wrote: Ok, I am immediately confused by this. The TOS places relatively strict limitations on how/where a mod author can put their own personal patreon links in a mod description/etc, but somehow THIS is ok?

Someone (Dark) want to please help me make some sense of this? Because this feels very strongly of "Do as we say, not as we do"...

Dark0ne wrote: Here are where donations are mention in our ToS in the context of your post:

Please ensure you are respectful when talking about donations and do not "over do it". An example of "over doing it" would be having a banner or blurb of text talking about donations at the top of your mod description before you've even described what your mod does, or regularly reminding your users in the comment section of your file pages to donate. Tactful discussion of donations would be informing your users they can donate and how to donate somewhere towards the bottom of your file description and/or in your readme file, acknowledging and thanking those users who have donated and who have explicitly agreed to having that information shared with others, a single sticky post in your file comments reminding users they can donate and responses to your users who have specifically asked you how they can donate to you.

What are you struggling with, exactly? The rules are in place to prevent mod authors from plastering Patreon/Donation links all over their mod descriptions to the detriment of the actual point of the mod description -- explaining what your mod does.

Can you explain how us adding a link on the site to a Patreon page to directly support this initiative is confusing you?

SkylerModder wrote: Well, either I have alzheimer's or this section was added since the last time I read the TOS:

Tactful discussion of donations would be informing your users they can donate and how to donate somewhere towards the bottom of your file description and/or in your readme file, acknowledging and thanking those users who have donated and who have explicitly agreed to having that information shared with others, a single sticky post in your file comments reminding users they can donate and responses to your users who have specifically asked you how they can donate to you.

because I don't remember that being there at all. ¯\_(:/)_/¯

Can you explain how us adding a link on the site to a Patreon page to directly support this initiative is confusing you?

2 things: 1) That the initiative needs "supporting" at all is confusing to me, as I was under the impression that Nexus already gets (very) ample funds from all the advertisements and so on it pulls in as it is. 2) In a general sense, I suppose the confusion largely stems from that the Author Donate link is right up top of the website, but that the TOS prevents a mod author having their own link at the top of their mod description. Just seems a bit conflicting, I guess. Maybe I'm wrong. idk. Like I said, I'm confused. ¯\_(:/)_/¯

edit: Apparently unicode characters can't be in a post, because reasons. >:|

Dark0ne wrote: That section of the TOS has been there since June 2016.

As for why it's "needed" -- it's explained in this news post and on the Patreon page. It isn't "needed", we're already donating a considerable sum ourselves when we don't have to. This is for users of the site to get involved in the process and "chip in".

@SkylerModder You're reading way too much into a simple situation. Edited June 12, 2018 by Arthmoor

[AugustaCalidia]

@SkylerModder

 

 

In a general sense, I suppose the confusion largely stems from that the Author Donate link is right up top of the website, but that the TOS prevents a mod author having their own link at the top of their mod description. Just seems a bit conflicting, I guess. Maybe I'm wrong. idk. Like I said, I'm confused.

 

 

NexusMods is a modding website, not a mod. Dark0ne is the site owner, not a mod author. The ToS applies to mods and mod authors.

[DaedalusMachina007]

Trying to do a Patreon for the 'Mod Author Donation Pool' is really scummy. Not happy about that.

 

Let the Mod Authors put donate buttons on their individual mod pages if they want instead of trying to act as an arbiter of it, Nexus.

 

There's ZERO transparancy on ANY of this and the 'Donation Points' system is still supposedly in the 90 day 'trial' period so where is the money going?

 

If Nexus wants to start up a Patreon for the site, then just do that instead of trying to say it is for Mod Authors!

 

Once again, Nexus is completely TONE DEAF when it comes to understanding their own modding community.

 

Anyone who wants to make money from this stuff can fire up Unity/Unreal and make their own games instead of trying to profit off of the IP/work of others (which is already a legal grey area as it is).

 

If authors are permitted a button to link to their own personal patreons, that would be cool. Same with the donation button on the mod pages. Nexus does NOT need to be the one to decide to whom and where the money goes. What a sham!

 

I already had to deal with a severe sharp decline of downloads on my mods with the 'mandatory login' requirement even for files under 2 MB. I didn't care about donation points and yet they forced this change on everyone. Ugh.

I wanted to help charity, but if I opt-out of the donation points system it still doesn't permit the mods to be downloaded by others without an account.

 

Maybe ModDB might be a better place to host things or I'll pop up stuff on my own website.

Edited June 12, 2018 by DaedalusMachina007

[Tabris999]

In response to post #60913897.

Scallawag wrote: Recommend some way to have a tag or some sort of badge that indicates how much of a donator someone is on Patreon. Maybe for the forum also? It might help get higher donations.

I feel this could end up making some authors priorize requests by donors over other users. It could also make some people think authors owe they something for being large donors.

[TheBaconOverlord]

In response to post #60913897. #60922977 is also a reply to the same post.

Scallawag wrote: Recommend some way to have a tag or some sort of badge that indicates how much of a donator someone is on Patreon. Maybe for the forum also? It might help get higher donations.

Tabris999 wrote: I feel this could end up making some authors priorize requests by donors over other users. It could also make some people think authors owe they something for being large donors.

Most modders generally appreciate donations and put those donors' requests on the forefront as a matter of courtesy anyway.

The second one probably wouldn't happen, but they would be wrong if they felt that way.

But, it was just a suggestion to help you guys get more donations. There has to be some form of incentive if you want more than $1 each.

[TheBaconOverlord]

In response to post #60914602. #60914912, #60915742, #60916482, #60916597 are all replies on the same post.

SkylerModder wrote: Ok, I am immediately confused by this. The TOS places relatively strict limitations on how/where a mod author can put their own personal patreon links in a mod description/etc, but somehow THIS is ok?

Someone (Dark) want to please help me make some sense of this? Because this feels very strongly of "Do as we say, not as we do"...

Dark0ne wrote: Here are where donations are mention in our ToS in the context of your post:

Please ensure you are respectful when talking about donations and do not "over do it". An example of "over doing it" would be having a banner or blurb of text talking about donations at the top of your mod description before you've even described what your mod does, or regularly reminding your users in the comment section of your file pages to donate. Tactful discussion of donations would be informing your users they can donate and how to donate somewhere towards the bottom of your file description and/or in your readme file, acknowledging and thanking those users who have donated and who have explicitly agreed to having that information shared with others, a single sticky post in your file comments reminding users they can donate and responses to your users who have specifically asked you how they can donate to you.

What are you struggling with, exactly? The rules are in place to prevent mod authors from plastering Patreon/Donation links all over their mod descriptions to the detriment of the actual point of the mod description -- explaining what your mod does.

Can you explain how us adding a link on the site to a Patreon page to directly support this initiative is confusing you?

SkylerModder wrote: Well, either I have alzheimer's or this section was added since the last time I read the TOS:

Tactful discussion of donations would be informing your users they can donate and how to donate somewhere towards the bottom of your file description and/or in your readme file, acknowledging and thanking those users who have donated and who have explicitly agreed to having that information shared with others, a single sticky post in your file comments reminding users they can donate and responses to your users who have specifically asked you how they can donate to you.

because I don't remember that being there at all. ¯\_(:/)_/¯

Can you explain how us adding a link on the site to a Patreon page to directly support this initiative is confusing you?

2 things: 1) That the initiative needs "supporting" at all is confusing to me, as I was under the impression that Nexus already gets (very) ample funds from all the advertisements and so on it pulls in as it is. 2) In a general sense, I suppose the confusion largely stems from that the Author Donate link is right up top of the website, but that the TOS prevents a mod author having their own link at the top of their mod description. Just seems a bit conflicting, I guess. Maybe I'm wrong. idk. Like I said, I'm confused. ¯\_(:/)_/¯

edit: Apparently unicode characters can't be in a post, because reasons. >:|

Dark0ne wrote: That section of the TOS has been there since June 2016.

As for why it's "needed" -- it's explained in this news post and on the Patreon page. It isn't "needed", we're already donating a considerable sum ourselves when we don't have to. This is for users of the site to get involved in the process and "chip in".

Arthmoor wrote: @SkylerModder You're reading way too much into a simple situation.

Arthmoor, actually he's right and it's a bit confusing. I've seen people get their mods removed due to Patreon links, but now they are allowed to remind people that they can donate to the larger "pot" of Patreon funds.

I'm not sure which is right or why, but it's definitely a bit of a kick in the teeth for those modders that have been penalized for this in the past.

[TheGrimblade]

I can get behind this, and I am sure you guys are doing everything on the up and up over here, but I just want to be sure... Are the game companies okay with this? Did you guys reach out to see if they viewed this as a loophole in their system that was going to upset them. I think it should be okay, but I just want to know that it won't get shut down in a month. Thanks, this is a great idea!

[DtheHun]

In response to post #60929452.

TheGrimblade wrote: I can get behind this, and I am sure you guys are doing everything on the up and up over here, but I just want to be sure... Are the game companies okay with this? Did you guys reach out to see if they viewed this as a loophole in their system that was going to upset them. I think it should be okay, but I just want to know that it won't get shut down in a month. Thanks, this is a great idea!

If I remember well, games of objecting companies can be left out from the system. I doubt it would be advantageous for them, even though for Bethesda games there's no 100% certanity in subjects involving both mods and money.
Edited June 13, 2018 by DtheHun

[DtheHun]

In response to post #60921067.

Augusta Calidia wrote:

@SkylerModder

 

 

In a general sense, I suppose the confusion largely stems from that the Author Donate link is right up top of the website, but that the TOS prevents a mod author having their own link at the top of their mod description. Just seems a bit conflicting, I guess. Maybe I'm wrong. idk. Like I said, I'm confused.

 

 

NexusMods is a modding website, not a mod. Dark0ne is the site owner, not a mod author. The ToS applies to mods and mod authors.

Grabbing the core essence 10/10

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #60922387.

DaedalusMachina007 wrote: Trying to do a Patreon for the 'Mod Author Donation Pool' is really scummy. Not happy about that.

Let the Mod Authors put donate buttons on their individual mod pages if they want instead of trying to act as an arbiter of it, Nexus.

There's ZERO transparancy on ANY of this and the 'Donation Points' system is still supposedly in the 90 day 'trial' period so where is the money going?

If Nexus wants to start up a Patreon for the site, then just do that instead of trying to say it is for Mod Authors!

Once again, Nexus is completely TONE DEAF when it comes to understanding their own modding community.

Anyone who wants to make money from this stuff can fire up Unity/Unreal and make their own games instead of trying to profit off of the IP/work of others (which is already a legal grey area as it is).

If authors are permitted a button to link to their own personal patreons, that would be cool. Same with the donation button on the mod pages. Nexus does NOT need to be the one to decide to whom and where the money goes. What a sham!

I already had to deal with a severe sharp decline of downloads on my mods with the 'mandatory login' requirement even for files under 2 MB. I didn't care about donation points and yet they forced this change on everyone. Ugh.
I wanted to help charity, but if I opt-out of the donation points system it still doesn't permit the mods to be downloaded by others without an account.

Maybe ModDB might be a better place to host things or I'll pop up stuff on my own website.

There's ZERO transparancy on ANY of this and the 'Donation Points' system is still supposedly in the 90 day 'trial' period so where is the money going?

The article is very clear about where the money is going. Money received from Patreon in June goes towards the July pot. Money received from July goes to the August pot. And so on, and so forth. Authors can see how much money we're receiving from this Patreon and then see we've added it to the next month's pot. Ergo, it's very transparent.

How is there zero transparency? Please explain.

If Nexus wants to start up a Patreon for the site, then just do that instead of trying to say it is for Mod Authors!

Huh? We already have a Premium Membership system tied into the site. We don't need a Patreon for the site.

Once again, Nexus is completely TONE DEAF when it comes to understanding their own modding community.

What exactly makes us tone deaf? We've engaged with our mod authors for well over a decade, hearing what they have to say about paid modding, donations and Patreon pages over many years and threads. We've discussed the plans for this system and adapted them based on user feedback a year in advance of actually releasing it. If that makes us tone deaf then, uh...ok?

If authors are permitted a button to link to their own personal patreons, that would be cool. Same with the donation button on the mod pages. Nexus does NOT need to be the one to decide to whom and where the money goes. What a sham!

They are. And nothing has changed there.

However, this is an entirely different system that supplements and compliments the other, it doesn't replace it. We're permitted to do whatever we damn well please with our own money, and we've decided to donate some of it to the mod authors who want to partake in this system.

I already had to deal with a severe sharp decline of downloads on my mods with the 'mandatory login' requirement even for files under 2 MB. I didn't care about donation points and yet they forced this change on everyone. Ugh.

You have one file on the site. Not sure what the plural on "mods" is, but here are your stats: https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy12/mods/37?tab=stats

That graph doesn't correlate with what you're saying. You're at the exact same rate of downloads as you were getting before we released the update to turn off guest downloading. The only bumps in your download stats occurred when you released updates to your files, which makes sense, as people who used your mod would be coming back to grab the update, increasing the download stats. Nothing to do with guest downloading being removed at all.

Maybe ModDB might be a better place to host things or I'll pop up stuff on my own website.

If you feel that strongly about the situation then yes, those options are open to you. Edited June 13, 2018 by Dark0ne