VulcanTourist Posted October 19, 2020 Author Share Posted October 19, 2020 To me, Reddit is like hanging out in front of the 7-11 in order to get sex advice from the local teens hanging out in front of the ice machineI "hang out" there with the express purpose of trying to dispel some of this stupidity and otherwise help a few people. r/skyrimmods is just about the only subreddit that I spend any time reading. I've had a dormant Reddit account for 4 years, but since becoming active in that subreddit a month ago I've gone from essentially 0 "karma" to over 1000. I hope I've done some good. I'm building up an archive of canned replies regarding Vortex and a few other issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AugustaCalidia Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 @VulcanTourist As they say in BoS land, ad victoriam! I really like your forum name. Quite original. Why are avatars illogical? I would have thought "non-logical" to be more apt. :smile: But I stray from the topic of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanTourist Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 @VulcanTouristI really like your forum name. Quite original.It's globally original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannin42 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 There are other reasons Vortex has this reputation of being buggy:- One problem is that it had a huge number of users right out of the gate. Other mod managers grew their userbase over time and so when they were still very buggy only few users (in absolute numbers) would report it. With Vortex any bug that affects 1% of the user lead to dozens of reports on different platforms making everything look more serious than it was.- Also NMM had the tendency of suppressing errors, that would then only appear in a log, if at all. Sometimes that's ok and the error doesn't actually affect users, that's true for many of the Vortex error messages as well. But sometimes they have long-term effects that would then break things when the user uninstalls a mod, updates NMM or when we try to migrate NMM -> Vortex.Both MO and Vortex in particular are built such that any unexpected behavior gets reported. This does invoke the impression that they have more bugs than NMM when really they are just more visible - and get fixed.- Finally my insistence on not running Vortex as admin is part of the problem. At this point I'm putting security over convenience which leads to a lot of error reports that are actually problems with the system setup but because Vortex reports them (whereas NMM was run as admin and thereby caused the problems instead of running into them) they're attributed to Vortex.- Electron-based applications in general have a bad reputation with a lot of people, mostly undeserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanTourist Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 There are other reasons Vortex has this reputation of being buggy:- One problem is that it had a huge number of users right out of the gate. Other mod managers grew their userbase over time and so when they were still very buggy only few users (in absolute numbers) would report it. With Vortex any bug that affects 1% of the user lead to dozens of reports on different platforms making everything look more serious than it was.- Also NMM had the tendency of suppressing errors, that would then only appear in a log, if at all. Sometimes that's ok and the error doesn't actually affect users, that's true for many of the Vortex error messages as well. But sometimes they have long-term effects that would then break things when the user uninstalls a mod, updates NMM or when we try to migrate NMM -> Vortex.Both MO and Vortex in particular are built such that any unexpected behavior gets reported. This does invoke the impression that they have more bugs than NMM when really they are just more visible - and get fixed.- Finally my insistence on not running Vortex as admin is part of the problem. At this point I'm putting security over convenience which leads to a lot of error reports that are actually problems with the system setup but because Vortex reports them (whereas NMM was run as admin and thereby caused the problems instead of running into them) they're attributed to Vortex.- Electron-based applications in general have a bad reputation with a lot of people, mostly undeserved. Would you want or mind that from-the-horse's-mouth information being shared in debates about the two, where relevant? I know you might not have prepared it as though it was a press release, but I'd like to have more information with which to be persuasive. Also, regarding the "run as admin" issue: does this relate to merely using a user account with Administrator rights, or explicitly starting Vortex with Run As Administrator? (I would expect you meant the latter, but just confirming.) What issues arise from that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorKaizeld Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Also, lets not forget Dark0ne can see the download stats for each manager and unless something changed Vortex is vastly more popular. Like I think it was 87% vortex? Can't remember, someone go give Dark some coffee and ask him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark0ne Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Answered this recently on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/ivtok8/growl_200_more_bears_update/g5zi0g0/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deleted34304850 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 To me, Reddit is like hanging out in front of the 7-11 in order to get sex advice from the local teens hanging out in front of the ice machineI "hang out" there with the express purpose of trying to dispel some of this stupidity and otherwise help a few people. r/skyrimmods is just about the only subreddit that I spend any time reading. I've had a dormant Reddit account for 4 years, but since becoming active in that subreddit a month ago I've gone from essentially 0 "karma" to over 1000. I hope I've done some good. I'm building up an archive of canned replies regarding Vortex and a few other issues. I admire your tenacity with this. Honestly I do. However a large part of me visualises "King Canute" here. Not your fault, there are just some blindingly stupid folks out there who don't want to deal in facts on any topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorKaizeld Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Answered this recently on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/ivtok8/growl_200_more_bears_update/g5zi0g0/ cool thanks. I knew I was off. Would be neat to see a regularly updating chart of that. Statistics are fun. So with that information it shows why Vortex would appear buggy. A loooot more people use it which means more report problems. In other words people accuse it of failure due to its success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickysaurus Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 From my experience too, we also find that if users encounter a single bug when they first try Vortex (sometimes as long ago as the beta) they don't bother to report that issue and instead swear blinding to anyone who will listen that Vortex doesn't work. The other use case is the user will go to Reddit/some random Discord and ask for help with Vortex rather than reporting it either through the app itself or on one of our monitored support channels (the forum, Discord, in-app feedback). We can't fix the things we don't know aren't working properly. As an example, I'm currently investigating a potential problem with Stardew Valley in Vortex, but as far as I know, nobody has ever actually reported the problem I was recently made aware of on the off chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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