Trying to understand

[Tlam99]

Somehow that sounds familiar.....

[HadToRegister]

 

 

 

That's not working well enough tho, that completely destroys any stable modlist possibility. Specially for mods that have any dependency and then that dependency gets removed. For any thing to become mainstream it needs to be reliable. There's nothing reliable about mods being able to be deleted at a person's whim. Reality is the right to delete mods wasn't a thing, it was just a privilege given by nexus to it's mod creators. The moment you host something here by their wording you give them the rights to keep, change and distribute your work as nexus sees fit.

 

 

Collections or mod lists are not doable as nexus envisions them (reliable and stable) without preventing uncontrollable things like mood swings or mistakes. By always keeping a stable version that has been tested and working there is a fallback for all users, at all times..

 

Reality is, some people will be mad about it for some reason or another, this happens every time there is change to anything. Most people don't like changes when they get used to something. I personally see the possible benefits of this step far outweighing any negatives.

 

Most mod authors wouldn't just delete their entire project over drama. That is actually a pretty rare occurrence, rare enough that it can be dealt with when it happens. For example, curseforge allows the deletion of mods, and it's not much of a problem because it's rare that mod authors do that, and since they already are in the habit of archiving they don't need to enforce that either. Sure, a mod being deleted over drama has happened before and caused many problems across some older packs for minecraft ... but to be frank, that is a small price to sacrifice to allow mod authors to have more control over their work and bring them comfort in knowing that have that ability.

 

I see where you are coming from but at the same time in my point of view I think that's a weird point to stand from a contributor in general. It's like donating my time and code to a git open source project and then expect to be treated specially and have the power to ruin the project for many more people. I feel like people that contribute and do these amazing free pieces of software should definitely be recognized and respected, but I disagree that they should have the tools to take their contribution away. Their contribution should be given with the knowledge that it is now public. That's how I've always looked at my contributions to several open source projects.

 

 

 

Whenever somebody new jumps in here and starts criticizing the mod authors about "Lack of respect" because they haven't read the previous 100 or so pages...ugh, having to explain it YET AGAIN.

WHO HAS BEEN A MEMBER SINCE YESTERDAY and is somehow trying to tell all of us who have been here since the early 2000s what is going on on the Nexus....UGH.

 

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS....

 

1. Nexus made a change where Nexus Mod Authors CANNOT DELETE THEIR MODS ANYMORE.

 

2. THREE DAYS LATER, They TOLD US about the change

 

THAT is ONE of the BIGGEST REASON WE ARE SO ANGRY, plus, having to wade through hundreds of posts of "IT'S UR FAULT MODDERS FOR UPLOADING HERE" and the "Leave NexusMods Alone!!!!" posts

 

 

 

 

[MarchinBunny]

 

I see where you are coming from but at the same time in my point of view I think that's a weird point to stand from a contributor in general. It's like donating my time and code to a git open source project and then expect to be treated specially and have the power to ruin the project for many more people. I feel like people that contribute and do these amazing free pieces of software should definitely be recognized and respected, but I disagree that they should have the tools to take their contribution away. Their contribution should be given with the knowledge that it is now public. That's how I've always looked at my contributions to several open source projects.

 

 

In truth, legally this is how most mods typically work, at least as far as I remember. When you make a mod for a game, you usually don't have ownership of it unless the mod in question doesn't use any tool or assets from the game in question. Meaning if you posted it, even if the site allowed you to delete it ... legally anyone could repost it. But most sites would still typically be against that just out of respect for the mod author. BGS games in particular are a bit more on the unique side due to their ToS, where BGS does allow mod authors to retain ownership, course with caveats like you can't sell it.

 

I will say though, I do agree modding works best when it's done in a manner where it's more open source, a contribution to a community rather than ... "I own this, it's mine ... I decide if you can have it or not".

But I mean ... it is what it is. As you can see, plenty of people feel that way, and it's not like they are wrong to do so. It's their right, even if I personally don't agree.

[HeyYou]

 

 

I see where you are coming from but at the same time in my point of view I think that's a weird point to stand from a contributor in general. It's like donating my time and code to a git open source project and then expect to be treated specially and have the power to ruin the project for many more people. I feel like people that contribute and do these amazing free pieces of software should definitely be recognized and respected, but I disagree that they should have the tools to take their contribution away. Their contribution should be given with the knowledge that it is now public. That's how I've always looked at my contributions to several open source projects.

 

 

In truth, legally this is how most mods typically work, at least as far as I remember. When you make a mod for a game, you usually don't have ownership of it unless the mod in question doesn't use any tool or assets from the game in question. Meaning if you posted it, even if the site allowed you to delete it ... legally anyone could repost it. But most sites would still typically be against that just out of respect for the mod author. BGS games in particular are a bit more on the unique side due to their ToS, where BGS does allow mod authors to retain ownership, course with caveats like you can't sell it.

 

I will say though, I do agree modding works best when it's done in a manner where it's more open source, a contribution to a community rather than ... "I own this, it's mine ... I decide if you can have it or not".

But I mean ... it is what it is. As you can see, plenty of people feel that way, and it's not like they are wrong to do so. It's their right, even if I personally don't agree.

 

The Bethesda ToS for the Construction set, (and the EULA) specifically state that mod authors OWN their work. There is no ambiguity there at all. As a matter of fact, I would challenge you to come up with a couple games that DON'T grant ownership to the author. Sure, they can't SELL it, but, they STILL OWN IT.

[xrayy]

If all you can see from this is nexus exploiting you and how this move is a terrible thing then there is nothing to be discussed here. You keep bringing up lack of respect like they badmouthed you or committed a great crime to you. Reality is they want modding to move forward instead of stagnating in a way that they see fit.

If it's the right or wrong way only time will tell, but if you can't see the possible positive outcome from this move then that's it. Good luck with your future endeavors wherever they may be.

 

Nexus has never mentioned you working for them or owing them anything. They simply told you their vision for nexus. You might disagree with it, but the way you talk about it clearly shows that you aren't going to compromise or even attempt to look at the positives this might bring. There is no point discussing a subject with someone that can only see negatives.

 

nexus uses the short term advantage of their surprising 180 turn and the 5 week ultimatum, which is not only too short but it came also too late for the surprised modders because the old deletion mechanism was already not functional at all. many of them still do not know about this 180 turn but this all doesn`t matter. seems you do not understand that nexus changed things surprisingly and not the modders who trusted nexusmods for a decade. there is nothing postiive regarding this surprising nexus 180 degree turn and all this has nothing to do with mod collections but with with a business model goal which seem to be easier to reach in a shorter period of time. so where is the positive ? no new mods equals no new mod collections and a destroyed community is positive ? i can not see any positive aspect.

[MarchinBunny]

 

Also you mention that it is rare, but you recognize that the times that you noticed it happening (mod makers deleting mods out of drama/etc) it had quite a large impact on the whole modpack/collection ecosystem. Why risk it? I think nexus did a poor job with how much time they gave people to adapt to the changes but i don't disagree with them drawing a line and openly stating "this is how we are doing this, you are welcome to join us and if you don't want to, good luck wherever you go". It's much cleaner than any potential problems that might come further down the line otherwise that might force the changes later.

 

Yep, I mean you are not wrong. There are even reddit threads about it that you can read. It really screwed up a ton of things to where not only did many packs no longer work (very popular packs too, some of which were built around the mod), but it also lead to other mods getting messed up too, as I think that particular mod author made some libraries many mods relied on. Took a while to recover from that, and some popular packs to this day just ... don't work anymore, or were never updated because they couldn't be with that author's mod.

 

Actually, I have to say though and make this clarification, I believe it was curseforge who removed all their mods due to the mod author breaking the ToS and writing code in his mods to prevent a user who made a joke from using any of their mods. All drama because one individually made a joke about how an ore in his mod looked too similar to diamond ore. But point is ... ya, the removal of mods can be disastrous for such a system.

 

But it's not like it can't be dealt with when it happens. Sure some packs may break entirely and never be updated, but generally speaking, most decent curators will work things out, and rework things.

[MarchinBunny]

 

 

In truth, legally this is how most mods typically work, at least as far as I remember. When you make a mod for a game, you usually don't have ownership of it unless the mod in question doesn't use any tool or assets from the game in question. Meaning if you posted it, even if the site allowed you to delete it ... legally anyone could repost it. But most sites would still typically be against that just out of respect for the mod author. BGS games in particular are a bit more on the unique side due to their ToS, where BGS does allow mod authors to retain ownership, course with caveats like you can't sell it.

 

I will say though, I do agree modding works best when it's done in a manner where it's more open source, a contribution to a community rather than ... "I own this, it's mine ... I decide if you can have it or not".

But I mean ... it is what it is. As you can see, plenty of people feel that way, and it's not like they are wrong to do so. It's their right, even if I personally don't agree.

 

The Bethesda ToS for the Construction set, (and the EULA) specifically state that mod authors OWN their work. There is no ambiguity there at all. As a matter of fact, I would challenge you to come up with a couple games that DON'T grant ownership to the author. Sure, they can't SELL it, but, they STILL OWN IT.

 

You didn't read what I said did you? Because I literally said the same thing you just did. And this is how I know some of you just run on emotions and don't bother to read anything.

Edit: Here .. I enlarged it substantially for you.

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

In truth, legally this is how most mods typically work, at least as far as I remember. When you make a mod for a game, you usually don't have ownership of it unless the mod in question doesn't use any tool or assets from the game in question. Meaning if you posted it, even if the site allowed you to delete it ... legally anyone could repost it. But most sites would still typically be against that just out of respect for the mod author. BGS games in particular are a bit more on the unique side due to their ToS, where BGS does allow mod authors to retain ownership, course with caveats like you can't sell it.

 

I will say though, I do agree modding works best when it's done in a manner where it's more open source, a contribution to a community rather than ... "I own this, it's mine ... I decide if you can have it or not".

But I mean ... it is what it is. As you can see, plenty of people feel that way, and it's not like they are wrong to do so. It's their right, even if I personally don't agree.

 

The Bethesda ToS for the Construction set, (and the EULA) specifically state that mod authors OWN their work. There is no ambiguity there at all. As a matter of fact, I would challenge you to come up with a couple games that DON'T grant ownership to the author. Sure, they can't SELL it, but, they STILL OWN IT.

 

You didn't read what I said did you? Because I literally said the same thing you just did. And this is how I know some of you just run on emotions and don't bother to read anything.

Edit: Here .. I enlarged it substantially for you.

 

I specifically mentioned that as a counter-point to what you were claiming. I don't bother reading thru your complete word salads any more, as you are basically stating the same thing over and over again, maybe in a slightly different way.

 

And where are the examples of game companies that DON'T grant ownership of mods to their authors? I note you didn't answer that part.

[frontaldnd]

And where are the examples of game companies that DON'T grant ownership of mods to their authors?

 

Didn't blizzard do that with warcraft III reforged?

[Gruffydd]

 

 

Making it "more accessible and easier [for a user] to experience a modded game" while providing no benefit to the authors yet introducing aspects that many see as negative is not the solution. It only benefits one side of what should be a symbiotic relationship, and turns the other side into a resource rather than a partner. There's a term for that kind of relationship, too, and it's not a pretty one.

 

Making anything easier to use is a benefit to everyone, including mod authors. It just depends on how you want to look at it. If you only focus on the negatives and none of the positives, of course it's going to seem bad.

Let me list some benefits just to show you.

1. It's going to bring way more people into modding, meaning more endorsements, more downloads, possibly more donations.

2. It will introduce a lot of people into modding and some of those individual may become curious and start creating mods themselves.

3. You have fewer people trying to mod manually, and as such you end up having fewer people with problems with their load order due to not knowing what they are doing. This means, mod authors are less likely to have to deal with users who don't know what they are doing. This is even more true if problems that do occur are directed at the curators ... which from my understanding is how Nexus is going about it.

4. Collections create more opportunities and idea that may have not been thought up before, and may lead to joint projects by authors to create something even better.

5. Collections incentivize mods playing nice together, and it becomes way more beneficial to make sure mods are as compatible as can be.

6. It increases the possibility of your mod being noticed as it may end up being included in a collection which may lead to many users learning about your mod where as before it was under the radar. There are tons of amazing mods that just sometimes never get the attention they deserve. Collections just add another layer that can create a great opportunity for such cases.

 

And I am sure there are more I didn't list. There are tons of positives, you just have to take a step back and stop being negative.

 

 

1. It's going to bring way more people into modding, meaning more endorsements, more downloads, possibly more donations.

Endorsements and downloads are fun stats, but meaningless. Donations are rare enough as to be nonexistent. Donation points are a dribble at best for the vast majority of mod authors.

More users does not directly benefit mod authors. It does directly benefit NexusMods.

2. It will introduce a lot of people into modding and some of those individual may become curious and start creating mods themselves.

This also does not benefit current mod authors in any way. It does directly benefit NexusMods.

3. You have fewer people trying to mod manually, and as such you end up having fewer people with problems with their load order due to not knowing what they are doing. This means, mod authors are less likely to have to deal with users who don't know what they are doing. This is even more true if problems that do occur are directed at the curators ... which from my understanding is how Nexus is going about it.

Maybe. I personally didn't have very many people reporting load order problems. In fact, I can't remember the last time I did.

4. Collections create more opportunities and idea that may have not been thought up before, and may lead to joint projects by authors to create something even better.

Wishful thinking. I don't see the causal relationship there.

5. Collections incentivize mods playing nice together, and it becomes way more beneficial to make sure mods are as compatible as can be.

It's not the obligation of mod authors to try to make mods "play nice together". Mods will conflict. Always have. Always will. You're modifying game code. If two people modify the same code, there's conflict. Expecting authors to somehow coordinate with all other authors to make the mods "play nice together" is unrealistic at best.

6. It increases the possibility of your mod being noticed as it may end up being included in a collection which may lead to many users learning about your mod where as before it was under the radar. There are tons of amazing mods that just sometimes never get the attention they deserve. Collections just add another layer that can create a great opportunity for such cases.

No, it increases the possibility that the user doesn't even know they're using that mod, since they installed a Collection based on its overall hype and didn't even bother to read which mods are included before pressing their one-button-install. Given that many users don't even bother to read a mod's description, comments section, bug reports, or readme files before installing (and then complaining to the author that it's "broken"), I give this a very high probability.