Striker879

Now keep in mind that my hands on experience is with Oblivion not FO3 but it sounds to me like what you have is a situation created by deleteing a mod that was a master to a mod patch that was Merged and Disabled by WB when it built the last bashed patch before you deleted the Increased Spawns mod. My experience in Oblivion is that before you deleted Increased Spawns you should have rebuilt your bashed patch and before clicking the Build Patch button turn off the tick mark for Marts Mutant Mod-Zones Respawn. That will stop WB from Merging and Disabling the Mod-Zones Respawn ESP. Next you would disable both the Increased Spawns and Mod-Zones Respawn ESPs in WB, re-sort your load order with them disabled and then you could either leave them disabled (in case you want to easily re-enable them later) or delete both.

The Bevilex guide will give you a good overall idea. That guide is well organised for not only what to install (if you want of course) but also the order to install. If you find a mod that is not included on the Bevi guide then look for where in the install order similar type mods are included in the Bevi guide. Often figuring out install order is a case of detective work ... looking at what the mod adds to the game vs other mods you either intent to install or have already installed. Install order is largely a concern for replacer type mods (mods that change vanilla game assets but don't rely on an ESP to do so). The 'rule of one' applies and so the last installed wins. - Edit - Here's a copy/paste of a text file that is a copy/paste of a post by Arthmoor concerning install order (note that specifics mentioned may or may not apply for you): Install order by Arthmoor 1. Install the Unofficial Oblivion Patch. 2. Install QTP3 Redimized. 3. Install the UOP320+QTP3 Patch. 4. Install the UOP Supplementals. 5. Install your favorite UI mod. Darn, Immersive Interface, BTMod, or your custom package for this if you have one. 6. Install Enhanced Economy if you're going to use it. It has UI components so should go in early. 7. Install Dynamic Map if you're going to use it, for the same reason. It also has UI components. 8. Install RAEVWD if you're going to use it. 9. Install AWLS if you're going to use it. This has options to override some components of RAEVWD.

One of the problems with following a mod list is the differences in hardware between your machine and the machine of the person who set up the list. That is why testing is so important (and you'll notice the Bevilex points that out). Where you are doing your testing is a detail often overlooked. The tutorial dungeon is not a particularly stressing area of the game as far as making your computer earn it's keep, so if you are doing all of your install/test sessions while in the prison cell or in the sewers you will be getting a false sense of how well your machine is handling the strain. All that changes once you step out into the world of Cyrodiil. I suggest a tutorial dungeon run with not much more that OBSE installed (if you are going the Oblivion Character Overhaul v2 route then make that OBSE + Blockhead + OCO v2). Before you get the character finalization menus and exit the sewers make a save. This will be useful for future characters, saving you from going through the tutorial again. Exit the sewers and then immediately make another save (not overwrting the first ... having lots and lots of saves is your friend). This second save will be the one you will use to play the character after you create that character's load order. Do a little vanilla (or close to vanilla) exploring and get a feel for how your machine is handling the vanilla game. Tweak game settings and see how they affect game performance (and if you are on a laptop perhaps even stability). The more time you spend getting a baseline the better results you will have when piling on mods (testing after you have installed some mods has no value without a frame of reference). Now start installing Bevi's list ... and any skimping you do on testing you will pay for in increased troubleshooting time when you run into a kerflewy. Experienced mod installer types will be able to get away with installing a handful or more mods at a time and then test because they will understand what each of those mods affects, so when things go south they'll have a good idea of where to start unravelling the knot. Many years and many installs to become one of those, I'd suggest install one mod and test thoroughly (but then again I'm biased as that is still my mod install mantra).

NifSkope is an invaluable resource for what you are wanting to do as it will tell you where the mesh is expecting to find it's textures (invisible could be just a missing or wrongly placed normal map). All you do is open the NIF in NifSkope and then open the different branches of the NIF in the left hand panel and when you find the branch that has the little flower icon. Open it and take note of the path and file used for that part. You must have the texture files in exactly the path the NIF is designed to use.

Couldn't find any confirmation, but I think that problem is addressed by Wrye Bash (perhaps part of the Tweak Assorted option when building a bashed patch). Another option is Duke Patricks Basic Script Effect Silencer (don't use that myself, so I can't say much about it).

I'd look at things like your Cobl Tweaks - OOO.esp for another mod utilising COBL races (not saying that Cobl Tweaks - OOO.esp is the culprit ... it was just an easy to spot example of where I'd start looking). TES4Edit may be handy for checking contents of any candidates for added races, and Wrye Bash may be useful in showing any ESPs that have Cobl Main.esm as a master (though that info will also be available when using TES4Edit).

Don't know if anybody is still doing it for smoking or not but I stopped smoking via acupuncture. Had my last cigarette before going in to get it and haven't had a single craving for a cigarette in over 35 years since leaving the session. I went into the appointment being a total doubter who gave it almost no chance of success, but work was paying for it and my ex-wife was telling me how well it worked. Funny thing is it worked a treat for me and the ex-wife went back to smoking a couple of months after I got it done. The only thing I brought to the table was a sincere and deep desire to stop smoking, and the knowledge that I was completely incapable of stopping. Gotta be down before you can get up. For me, there are two problems with that. :smile: First: I am allergic to needles. I hate them with a passion, and the thought of someone sticking me with a multitude of them makes my skin crawl. :smile: Second: I am not that motivated to quit..... Nor do I really 'want to'..... I smoke about half a pack a day, much less than when I was younger..... The acupuncture was done with a laser in what I assume are the same acupuncture spots as the tradition method would use. It was primarily on the hands with one or two on the ears. I've always maintained that the reason for it's success with me was those head shots ... fried the right brain cells. HHHmmm..... Poked with needles, or shot with a laser???? Decisions, decisions...... :D LOL ... I have had one other experience with acupuncture the traditional way (the little needles hooked up to the 'cow fence' power source method). In retrospect if I had to choose again I guess I'd go with the laser (which is just one more way I've fried brain cells over the years). Plus the 'cow fence' experience brought back old memories of working a dairy farm, my first experience with a job that I knew I would never willingly do again.

Don't know if anybody is still doing it for smoking or not but I stopped smoking via acupuncture. Had my last cigarette before going in to get it and haven't had a single craving for a cigarette in over 35 years since leaving the session. I went into the appointment being a total doubter who gave it almost no chance of success, but work was paying for it and my ex-wife was telling me how well it worked. Funny thing is it worked a treat for me and the ex-wife went back to smoking a couple of months after I got it done. The only thing I brought to the table was a sincere and deep desire to stop smoking, and the knowledge that I was completely incapable of stopping. Gotta be down before you can get up. For me, there are two problems with that. :smile: First: I am allergic to needles. I hate them with a passion, and the thought of someone sticking me with a multitude of them makes my skin crawl. :smile: Second: I am not that motivated to quit..... Nor do I really 'want to'..... I smoke about half a pack a day, much less than when I was younger..... The acupuncture was done with a laser in what I assume are the same acupuncture spots as the tradition method would use. It was primarily on the hands with one or two on the ears. I've always maintained that the reason for it's success with me was those head shots ... fried the right brain cells.

When you say "deleted the original ini file" are you talking about Oblivion.ini (found in your Users\[username]\My Documents\My Games\Oblivion\ folder) or are you talking about Oblivion_Default.ini (found in your game's Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion folder)?

Don't know if anybody is still doing it for smoking or not but I stopped smoking via acupuncture. Had my last cigarette before going in to get it and haven't had a single craving for a cigarette in over 35 years since leaving the session. I went into the appointment being a total doubter who gave it almost no chance of success, but work was paying for it and my ex-wife was telling me how well it worked. Funny thing is it worked a treat for me and the ex-wife went back to smoking a couple of months after I got it done. The only thing I brought to the table was a sincere and deep desire to stop smoking, and the knowledge that I was completely incapable of stopping. Gotta be down before you can get up.

But Salty you are ignoring what is truly at the bottom of this ... filthy rich guys are getting filthier rich from it, so it must be OK!!

+1 :thumbsup: for 1ae ... I'm still chuckling minutes after the first read (and second, and third ...).

I'd start with 3b and 3c on your load order list.

I don't have birds flying overhead in my game, so it's coming from one of your mods. All I hear is birdsong when passing by the places that Bethesda placed the sound trigger. Not all mods will repond 100% appropriately from a console triggered weather change ... even one of my own personal use mods has inconsistent behaviour when testing using console controlled weather (or maybe there is always some inconsistency, not really an issue for me as the package conditions that check weather are only there to approximate somewhat realistic behaviour ... I mean people do sometimes go outside even though it's raining or snowing).

Thanks Drake ... the missing collision part makes sense. I've seen other troubleshooting threads where the person said they could click it in the console to find the mod index number, in all likelyhood they weren't using the UOP. My only experience seeing the missing mesh error was on my current character, and the UOP was the first 'mod' installed on his load order. I was mostly expecting to find them as it was outlined in the mod description/mod comments for the alt start mod I used with that character (no sense in mentioning which as it relies on a mod that now has 'unobtainium' status). In my case it was simply a matter of extracting the problem mod's BSA (was one of those 'problem reading the BSA' things).

Marker.Error.nif is what the game uses when it can't find the mesh it was expecting. If you use OBMM to browse Oblivion - Meshes.bsa you'll find it in the file path Meshes\Marker_Error.nif (same as if you download the UOP to a folder and then extract the download you will find it's replacement for the vanilla game Marker_Error.nif in the extracted download's Meshes\Marker_Error.nif ... it works as a simple replacer same as HGEC or Roberts Male, or countless other replacer mods). Marker_Error.nif doesn't cause the missing mesh, it is the error indication that the game uses to tell you that you have a missing mesh in one of your mods. Marker_Error.nif can't tell you which mod is missing a mesh, just that one of your mods is missing a mesh. I don't know this for certain, but I think that if the game didn't have something to display instead of the missing mesh it would just crash (and you'd be stuck scratching your head trying to figure out why). An example of a fairly common situation that happens when the game has no way to signal an error ... if you install a UI replacer mod and then uninstall it (but don't follow the instructions on fixing your Oblivion.ini) when you try to start the game after unistalling the UI mod it will just crash. It crashes because it is missing fonts for the menus that it is looking for (they are defined in Oblivion.ini, which the UI mod installation changed to match the fonts it uses, but then when you uninstalled the UI mod it removed the fonts). The game developers never considered the possibility of UI replacers, and so never developed an error code for missing menu fonts so that the game could gracefully inform you of the problem. Marker_Error.nif is the error code for a missing mesh, black or invisible texture is the error code for missing normal map, pinkish purple texture for missing colour maps, parts extending to infinity for missing bone weights/rigging (though that one may not be an actual intended error code, and could be just the game engine doing the best it can with a bad situation). RefScope (that I linked above) is one tool for finding out which mod has the missing mesh, another possble tool is FormID Finder. Where you see the missing mesh error code can also be a clue (example, if it's only out in the forests then I'd start troubleshooting with any mods you have that affect trees/bushes/shrubs etc). Just an FYI ... the version of the Marker_Error.nif mesh that comes included with the UOP is 64KB in size ... the one that is in Oblivion - Meshes.bsa is 4KB in size. The one from the UOP has a whole bunch of information telling you what it is, the one from the vanilla game is just a big exclamation mark. You can use BSA unpacker to extract Marker_Error.nif from Oblivion - Meshes.bsa (it is the same tool as you have incorporated into OBMM ... just pulled out to act as a standalone utility). You can use NifSkope to view those and other mesh NIFs.

OK ... maybe I was missing your point. I thought you were just referring to the Marker_Error.nif (which will only display if you in fact have an ESP that references a particular mesh but the game can't find it). So are you saying that you are seeing either the vanilla giant exclamation mark or the UOP's star with the WTF text in game? RefScope can be used to track down the culprit mod. I've never used it myself as I just open the console and then click on the base of the error mesh (can sometimes take a little clicking around to find the right spot). The referenceID of the object will be displayed at the top of the console screen, and the first two digits of that correspond to the originating mod's spot in the load order (displayed as hexadecimal, which is a pita to convert to decimal ... I just look in Wrye Bash on the Mods tab and each active mod's load order hex number is displayed along with the ESP name).

If you delete the UOP version of Marker_Error.nif the game will just use the one found in Oblivion - Meshes.bsa ... so you'll see the exclamation mark instead of the UOP star with the WTF message. The error mesh is used any time you install a mod that uses an ESP to display a new mesh in the game but don't install all of the meshes that the ESP assigns in the game. Let's say you download Joe's Really Cool Armor mod (that adds new armor to the game) and when you install it you mess up and forget to install the Data\Meshes\JoesReallyCoolArmor\JoesArmorContainer.nif (that JoesReallyCoolArmor.esp places in the IC Market District, along with 40,000 other mods that add armor to the game). You go to the Market District to get the armor from the chest and where the mod description says it's supposed to be you only see ... 1) a big yellow exclamation mark or 2) a big greyish star that says WTF!? I'm a missing Mesh! In case one you either don't have the UOP installed or have deleted the file Oblivion\Data\Meshes\Marker_Error.nif after you installed the UOP ... in case two you have installed the UOP and then moved on to other things on your To Do list.

LOL ... the one folder I didn't look in! That is the mesh the game uses when displaying a missing mesh error. The vanilla game uses a giant exclamation mark ... the UOP replaces the exclamation mark with a big star that says "WTF!? I'm a missing Mesh!" (just so you get the idea I guess). If you delete it the game will just use it's exclamation mark.

What is the full folder path to Marker_Error.nif ... I'm not having any luck finding it in the UOP extracted download.

The console code to force weather thunderstorm is fw 38ef1 (Oblivion:Console is a valuable UESP Wiki resource for troubleshooting and testing ... just be aware that it is entirely possible to break your saveline so limit yourself to testing and troubleshooting until you gain some familiarity with what happens after you do what in the console).

The 'Natural Weather' is probably referring to Weather - All Natural (Arthmoor was involved in it's development at some time in the past ... plus Enhanced Weather is the precursor to Weather - All Natural). The Weather - All Natural mod page has been curated by different individuals over the years, and AndalayBay (the last person taking care of the mod page) passed it on to the NexusModsCaretaker some time ago. It is the most recent of the main weather mods that I know of. I don't use either Natural Environments or Weather - All Natural myself ... I use Enhanced Weather, in part because it had a compatibility fix for the alternate start mod I used for my current character (no need to go into details regarding that as it requires a version of a mod that is no longer available). Wrye Bash is a mod manager (and much more) and is the only way to get a bashed patch. A bashed patch is something that Wrye Bash creates to allow conflicting mods to work together. Without a bashed patch your only option to get conflicting mods to work together is create a patch yourself using the Construction Set. Older versions of Wrye Bash had two methods for creating the bashed patch ... one that used a patching mechanism that was written using the C programming language (C-Bash) and one that uses the same method as is currently the only supported method P-Bash (one that uses the Python library of programming functions). One of the options available via the bashed patch is called a filter or merge filtering. It allows you to use a patch which covers many different mods without installing all of the mods that the filter patch covers (so for example you could have Castle Seaview from that list but none of the other mods and merge filtering using Wrye Bash will see the one mod that is supported you have installed and ignore all the rest). That is all just background info for you as you don't have any of the mods that Storms and Sounds Patches supports, so you don't need to use it. The Storms and Sounds Patches doesn't add anything ... it is just so that those listed mods can benefit from the interior stuff. On the upside Ranger, you won't need to venture down the Wrye Bash rabbit hole just yet (providing you don't install one of those listed mods that is).

One trick I've learned when testing/troubleshooting AI package changes/additions is to try to keep far enough away from the NPC that they aren't turned looking at you. My experience is they are less likely to re-evaluate their packages when they are turned looking at your character as if they're waiting for you to speak.

Oblivion evaluates AI packages by parsing down the list. Rowley's top package is an generic eat at editor location from 8pm until midnight. His editor location is inside the Wawnet Inn just past the fireplace on the way to the upper section (you'll see his LairVileTarisStool there). He does go indoors for that package as I have seen him in there. He also has an eat at editor location at noon for two hours (so once again he'll go indoors and eat on his stool). Rowley's main package is a travel package that takes him out to LairVileOutdoorHangout (his stool hidden in the crate). It is set to run any time no other package is running that is above it in his package list (which is the eat packages). He also has a default wander package, but it will never run because the travel package is above it in his list and that one will always be run before his default wander (it's there more as a safeguard ... NPCs should always have a default package to run when all else fails).

Do not use Grass Overhaul_xUL_Imperial_Isle_patch.esp ... you would only use that ESP if you have Unique Landscapes installed (in which case you would have the master file it is looking for xulIperialIsle.esp). Before you create the OMOD from the downwloaded ZIP extract it to a folder and remove any things that are not needed (such as the UL patch). You can then re-ZIP it and proceed with creating your OMOD.