Trying to understand

[Gruffydd]

 

...

Reality is the right to delete mods wasn't a thing, it was just a privilege given by nexus to it's mod creators. The moment you host something here by their wording you give them the rights to keep, change and distribute your work as nexus sees fit.

...

 

Reality is that even though the ToS may have said that, we were told repeatedly by multiple sources that it was basically just boilerplate, and that it was not how the Nexus operated.

Now they've done a complete 180 on their stated policies of over a decade, in support of a new business model, in the least supportive and most dismissive way possible.

Now they're saying to authors well, that boilerplate is now reality no matter what we said before, and hey, look at that, it lets us claim every single right that you as copyright holder have over your material, forever.

So yes, by the wording of the ToS, maybe it was a "privilege" that the Nexus "let" authors delete their own work. But you know what? It's a privilege for the Nexus to be given our work, that we've worked to long and hard to produce with no material benefit for doing so, in the first place. Without the mods there is no Nexus. And you know what? It's also a privilege for users to be given the results of our work - for free I might add - as well, even though so many apparently see it as something that they have a right to, that they're entitled to, and that they demand that we produce for them. So, if you're going to toss around what a "privilege" it was that Nexus was "allowing" us to remove our own work from the site, be aware there are other privileges that you're taking for granted.

 

We, the mod authors, do not work for the Nexus. We are not required to host our work here. There are multiple other sites on which we can host our mods that will partner with us instead of exploiting us to advance their business model. We don't even have to host our mods anywhere. If we want, we can take them down entirely, and then nobody except those we personally give them to gets to use them. They're our mods. We own the copyrights (see: copyright.gov, the Bethesda CK EULA, and the "Copyright and You" thread here on the Nexus in the Rules section) and anything we grant to others is the privilege, not what they allow us to do with our own work.

 

So, if now the Nexus can't or won't respect us enough to see us as partners instead of an asset to be exploited, then we can and will take our work elsewhere, and a number of us have done so.

[Gruffydd]

 

The people that would use easy installations and 1 click mod lists weren't ever going to communicate and/or learn how to mod by current means. These are the overall majority that wouldn't read a guide or even attempt to make a nexus account if it wasn't necessary for downloading mods.

 

This does not fill me with a desire to give up my rights over my own work to a for-profit company so that these people can have an easier time using mods.

[frontaldnd]

If all you can see from this is nexus exploiting you and how this move is a terrible thing then there is nothing to be discussed here. You keep bringing up lack of respect like they badmouthed you or committed a great crime to you. Reality is they want modding to move forward instead of stagnating in a way that they see fit.

If it's the right or wrong way only time will tell, but if you can't see the possible positive outcome from this move then that's it. Good luck with your future endeavors wherever they may be.

 

Nexus has never mentioned you working for them or owing them anything. They simply told you their vision for nexus. You might disagree with it, but the way you talk about it clearly shows that you aren't going to compromise or even attempt to look at the positives this might bring. There is no point discussing a subject with someone that can only see negatives.

[MarchinBunny]

 

That's not working well enough tho, that completely destroys any stable modlist possibility. Specially for mods that have any dependency and then that dependency gets removed. For any thing to become mainstream it needs to be reliable. There's nothing reliable about mods being able to be deleted at a person's whim. Reality is the right to delete mods wasn't a thing, it was just a privilege given by nexus to it's mod creators. The moment you host something here by their wording you give them the rights to keep, change and distribute your work as nexus sees fit.

 

 

Collections or mod lists are not doable as nexus envisions them (reliable and stable) without preventing uncontrollable things like mood swings or mistakes. By always keeping a stable version that has been tested and working there is a fallback for all users, at all times..

 

Reality is, some people will be mad about it for some reason or another, this happens every time there is change to anything. Most people don't like changes when they get used to something. I personally see the possible benefits of this step far outweighing any negatives.

 

Most mod authors wouldn't just delete their entire project over drama. That is actually a pretty rare occurrence, rare enough that it can be dealt with when it happens. For example, curseforge allows the deletion of mods, and it's not much of a problem because it's rare that mod authors do that, and since they already are in the habit of archiving they don't need to enforce that either. Sure, a mod being deleted over drama has happened before and caused many problems across some older packs for minecraft ... but to be frank, that is a small price to sacrifice to allow mod authors to have more control over their work and bring them comfort in knowing that have that ability.

[MarchinBunny]

 

Making it "more accessible and easier [for a user] to experience a modded game" while providing no benefit to the authors yet introducing aspects that many see as negative is not the solution. It only benefits one side of what should be a symbiotic relationship, and turns the other side into a resource rather than a partner. There's a term for that kind of relationship, too, and it's not a pretty one.

 

Making anything easier to use is a benefit to everyone, including mod authors. It just depends on how you want to look at it. If you only focus on the negatives and none of the positives, of course it's going to seem bad.

Let me list some benefits just to show you.

1. It's going to bring way more people into modding, meaning more endorsements, more downloads, possibly more donations.

2. It will introduce a lot of people into modding and some of those individual may become curious and start creating mods themselves.

3. You have fewer people trying to mod manually, and as such you end up having fewer people with problems with their load order due to not knowing what they are doing. This means, mod authors are less likely to have to deal with users who don't know what they are doing. This is even more true if problems that do occur are directed at the curators ... which from my understanding is how Nexus is going about it.

4. Collections create more opportunities and idea that may have not been thought up before, and may lead to joint projects by authors to create something even better.

5. Collections incentivize mods playing nice together, and it becomes way more beneficial to make sure mods are as compatible as can be.

6. It increases the possibility of your mod being noticed as it may end up being included in a collection which may lead to many users learning about your mod where as before it was under the radar. There are tons of amazing mods that just sometimes never get the attention they deserve. Collections just add another layer that can create a great opportunity for such cases.

 

And I am sure there are more I didn't list. There are tons of positives, you just have to take a step back and stop being negative.

[HadToRegister]

 

 

List curators won't be paid. Not like an employee at any rate. They will be similar to mod authors, in that they author a list, and upload that, which the tool (vortex) can then install the mods in that list, and to some users game. :smile:

 

 

They'll just do what current Mod List makers do, and start a patreon.

One that's makes an "Adult" mod list makes around $189/mo from subscribers.

 

(And before the usual trolls jump in, I KNOW the mod lists can't be paywalled,, there's no need to jump in here and try and correct the hell out of me, for something that doesn't need correcting, so calm yourselves)

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

List curators won't be paid. Not like an employee at any rate. They will be similar to mod authors, in that they author a list, and upload that, which the tool (vortex) can then install the mods in that list, and to some users game. :smile:

 

 

They'll just do what current Mod List makers do, and start a patreon.

One that's makes an "Adult" mod list makes around $189/mo from subscribers.

 

(And before the usual trolls jump in, I KNOW the mod lists can't be paywalled,, there's no need to jump in here and try and correct the hell out of me, for something that doesn't need correcting, so calm yourselves)

 

A selection of mod authors also have patreons.... Nothin' new there either.

[Tlam99]

A modlist is more ore less a DLC, no relationship to modding at all.

The users indirect pay for this DLC, their contents are free for the distributor

what guarantees a good margin.

[axonis]

Reality is the right to delete mods wasn't a thing, it was just a privilege given by nexus to it's mod creators.

That sounds like the reality of another universe. Reality in our planet is:

 

1. ModDrop gives authors the right to delete their work.
2. ModDB gives authors the right to delete their work.
3. YouTube gives authors the right to delete their work.
4. Vimeo gives authors the right to delete their work.
5. Fictionaut gives authors the right to delete their work.
6. Twitter gives authors the right to delete their work.

The right of authors to delete their work was always "a thing".

[frontaldnd]

 

 

That's not working well enough tho, that completely destroys any stable modlist possibility. Specially for mods that have any dependency and then that dependency gets removed. For any thing to become mainstream it needs to be reliable. There's nothing reliable about mods being able to be deleted at a person's whim. Reality is the right to delete mods wasn't a thing, it was just a privilege given by nexus to it's mod creators. The moment you host something here by their wording you give them the rights to keep, change and distribute your work as nexus sees fit.

 

 

Collections or mod lists are not doable as nexus envisions them (reliable and stable) without preventing uncontrollable things like mood swings or mistakes. By always keeping a stable version that has been tested and working there is a fallback for all users, at all times..

 

Reality is, some people will be mad about it for some reason or another, this happens every time there is change to anything. Most people don't like changes when they get used to something. I personally see the possible benefits of this step far outweighing any negatives.

 

Most mod authors wouldn't just delete their entire project over drama. That is actually a pretty rare occurrence, rare enough that it can be dealt with when it happens. For example, curseforge allows the deletion of mods, and it's not much of a problem because it's rare that mod authors do that, and since they already are in the habit of archiving they don't need to enforce that either. Sure, a mod being deleted over drama has happened before and caused many problems across some older packs for minecraft ... but to be frank, that is a small price to sacrifice to allow mod authors to have more control over their work and bring them comfort in knowing that have that ability.

 

I see where you are coming from but at the same time in my point of view I think that's a weird point to stand from a contributor in general. It's like donating my time and code to a git open source project and then expect to be treated specially and have the power to ruin the project for many more people. I feel like people that contribute and do these amazing free pieces of software should definitely be recognized and respected, but I disagree that they should have the tools to take their contribution away. Their contribution should be given with the knowledge that it is now public. That's how I've always looked at my contributions to several open source projects.

 

I also mentioned mistakes. Some games (bannerlord for example) give you the choice of selecting what version of the game you want to download on steam. This means that the most recent version of a mod file doesn't work if you want to play on an older version of the game. Having all versions backed up and easily to obtain without the risk of a mod creator "cleaning up" or deleting older versions for X or Y reason is paramount for such examples.

 

Also you mention that it is rare, but you recognize that the times that you noticed it happening (mod makers deleting mods out of drama/etc) it had quite a large impact on the whole modpack/collection ecosystem. Why risk it? I think nexus did a poor job with how much time they gave people to adapt to the changes but i don't disagree with them drawing a line and openly stating "this is how we are doing this, you are welcome to join us and if you don't want to, good luck wherever you go". It's much cleaner than any potential problems that might come further down the line otherwise that might force the changes later.