An update on Vortex development

[Ethreon]

In response to post #56051751.

ozoak wrote:

 

In response to post #56044656.

ozoak wrote:

I think everyone who's mentioned "mod packs" in this thread is using it as convenient naming only - I don't believe any of those people are actually suggesting downloading, combining and republishing the mods.

I'd be more inclined to call the concept a "playlist", because I believe what people would like to see is something that has more in common with that principle than what we typically call a modpack.

And I don't see how it *wouldn't* be possible, if not in the core utility but at least through the API that has been spruiked a couple of times.

It would essentially be a sub-set of a profile, simply an ordered list of ID's with min version numbers without the rest of the profile data.

Will Vortex be smart enough to alert users when mods listed in a profile are missing? I hope so, because even without playlists of mods users will from time to time screw up and manually delete mods when they shouldn't.

So a very non-complex solution would be: create profile, import playlist, Vortex alerts user to which mods are missing (all, or assuming the user may have already downloaded some, only some of), uses Vortex to download them.

None of us know the specifics, of course, of what the API will allow but if it allows interactions with the Profiles, then as I said, I can't see how it wouldn't be possible.

It'll be interesting to see what the API is capable of when it get launched.

Congratulations, you now have a broken game.

 

 

Fairly certain that you're not comprehending what I'm suggesting.

Why on earth would a game break by having an ordered list of mods with version info as a template for what is required?

It would be a trivial logic to work through:

* create new profile

* import mod list

* check if any mods in imported list are available because they have been previously downloaded

** If mod has not been downloaded, mark mods as "missing, requires download"

 

If Vortex is already linking, and not copying/moving, mods then I am hoping it would already have a mechanism to detect if a mod downloaded has gone missing.

 

Why would the game break?

To me this seems like an attempt to break your game by downloading and installing a bunch of games someone put together as a list. While I'm sure this can be done, I don't see it not being used by unexperienced or clueless users and breaking their games easily. Whoever makes such list would also have to make sure the patches required for compatibility are included, and I assume you'd then install everything yourself. All in all, while good, this sounds like an easy game breaking feature. But I'm sure someone can make a module since Vertex is advertised as allowing such.

[ThD17gj692]

In response to post #56028336. #56040656 is also a reply to the same post.

ThD17gj692 wrote: I'm not technical nor a mod creator, so my question may be naive. My favorite Fall Out game is FO3, however, after upgrading from Win 7 to Win 10, I can only get about 10 to 20 minutes of playtime using all the mods I like (140 including merged mods) before my game crashes. Before the upgrade, I could play several hours before crashing.

Will Vortex extend play time? That is, will the game engine perform as if there are no mods added? It seems to me that a major reason for creating MO was to deal with all the problems of the buggy game engine used for Skyrim. Of course, this may not be the case, but if you only have a choice of a few mods you don't really need a mod manager, but if there are thousands of mods to choose from, then a manager is essential.

Only the Bethesda games have thousands of mods to choose from and Skyrim has the most. So all the merits of virtualization aside, will these games perform better using Vortex? I hope so and plan to find out because I will use Vortex to rebuild my FO3, NV and Skyrim games as soon as it becomes available.

Rogdonlp wrote: ThD17gj692

If you are using the Fallout Stutter Remover and installed the Fall Creator W10 update your FO3 crashes are most likely due to the fact that the W10 update made changes to W10 that were incompatible with the settings in your Fallout Stutter Remover ini file. See the discussion here: http://forum.step-project.com/topic/12717-problems-with-fallout-stutter-resmover/

My FO3 was crashing and freezing. I changed the ini file and my problems are gone.

Good Luck

Thanks very much for responding. I haven't played FO3 in over a year because I'm waitng for Vortex to rebuild my game. I did just change " Fallout Stutter Remover.ini" (per your advice): "iDefaultMode = 1" and "fMaximumFPS =0". in anticipation of rebuilding FO3.

Happy Holidays

[ozoak]

 

In response to post #56051751.

 

 

 

ozoak wrote:

In response to post #56044656.

 

 

 

ozoak wrote:

I think everyone who's mentioned "mod packs" in this thread is using it as convenient naming only - I don't believe any of those people are actually suggesting downloading, combining and republishing the mods.

I'd be more inclined to call the concept a "playlist", because I believe what people would like to see is something that has more in common with that principle than what we typically call a modpack.

And I don't see how it *wouldn't* be possible, if not in the core utility but at least through the API that has been spruiked a couple of times.

It would essentially be a sub-set of a profile, simply an ordered list of ID's with min version numbers without the rest of the profile data.

Will Vortex be smart enough to alert users when mods listed in a profile are missing? I hope so, because even without playlists of mods users will from time to time screw up and manually delete mods when they shouldn't.

So a very non-complex solution would be: create profile, import playlist, Vortex alerts user to which mods are missing (all, or assuming the user may have already downloaded some, only some of), uses Vortex to download them.

None of us know the specifics, of course, of what the API will allow but if it allows interactions with the Profiles, then as I said, I can't see how it wouldn't be possible.

It'll be interesting to see what the API is capable of when it get launched.

Congratulations, you now have a broken game.

Fairly certain that you're not comprehending what I'm suggesting.

Why on earth would a game break by having an ordered list of mods with version info as a template for what is required?

It would be a trivial logic to work through:

* create new profile

* import mod list

* check if any mods in imported list are available because they have been previously downloaded

** If mod has not been downloaded, mark mods as "missing, requires download"

If Vortex is already linking, and not copying/moving, mods then I am hoping it would already have a mechanism to detect if a mod downloaded has gone missing.

Why would the game break?

To me this seems like an attempt to break your game by downloading and installing a bunch of games someone put together as a list. While I'm sure this can be done, I don't see it not being used by unexperienced or clueless users and breaking their games easily. Whoever makes such list would also have to make sure the patches required for compatibility are included, and I assume you'd then install everything yourself. All in all, while good, this sounds like an easy game breaking feature. But I'm sure someone can make a module since Vertex is advertised as allowing such.

 

 

Less abrupt and combative than last time, so I can work with this :smile:

 

I agree with the conclusion, but not the scope of your premise? I completely agree, a mod playlist could be unplayable or degrade the experience (and in case I wasn't clear I wasn't suggesting adding a mod playlist to an already ordered loadout would work - it would need to be a clean profile with the user having an option to add further mods afterwards) however if a playlist was a category on Nexus, and they had comments/forum just like mods, then they would be no more and no less prone to not working or blindsiding someone who employs one than any single mod. I haven't bothered to look at how they're being categorised but there are users already uploads "mods" which are just lists of other mods they assert work well together.

 

Is there a difference between individually downloading 5 mods and downloading a playlist which links 5 mods? In terms of known compatibility etc.

Sure, some mods provide patches but many do not. I think someone who didn't bother to read the description and at least view recent comments would have equal chance either way of causing issues for their gameplay.

 

I spent the best part of 3 hours last night going through the remainder of my 'go to' list of mods and getting their (now) released SSE conversion or downloading alternatives to them [side note, pretty pleased - around 90% over the line]. That's around 200 mods, and only a small % of those offer compatibility patches - the vast majority are (or at least were) a roll of the dice. Just looking at that core group of mods I probably have downloaded/tried/tested twice that trying to find workable combos.

 

Theoretically if I pumped out a playlist, it would be more stable than starting from scratch. Think also things like STEP if there was a playlist 'core' to kick things off.

Mod playlists definitely wouldn't be the answer to everything, but IMO totally doable and no less risky than 'suck it and see' approach to adding mods, and just like with all mods - use at own risk, the key would be having feedback via comments so users could gauge how well they've worked for others.

Edited December 17, 2017 by ozoak

[Rogdonlp]

In response to post #56028336. #56040656, #56055571 are all replies on the same post.

ThD17gj692 wrote: I'm not technical nor a mod creator, so my question may be naive. My favorite Fall Out game is FO3, however, after upgrading from Win 7 to Win 10, I can only get about 10 to 20 minutes of playtime using all the mods I like (140 including merged mods) before my game crashes. Before the upgrade, I could play several hours before crashing.

Will Vortex extend play time? That is, will the game engine perform as if there are no mods added? It seems to me that a major reason for creating MO was to deal with all the problems of the buggy game engine used for Skyrim. Of course, this may not be the case, but if you only have a choice of a few mods you don't really need a mod manager, but if there are thousands of mods to choose from, then a manager is essential.

Only the Bethesda games have thousands of mods to choose from and Skyrim has the most. So all the merits of virtualization aside, will these games perform better using Vortex? I hope so and plan to find out because I will use Vortex to rebuild my FO3, NV and Skyrim games as soon as it becomes available.

Rogdonlp wrote: ThD17gj692

If you are using the Fallout Stutter Remover and installed the Fall Creator W10 update your FO3 crashes are most likely due to the fact that the W10 update made changes to W10 that were incompatible with the settings in your Fallout Stutter Remover ini file. See the discussion here: http://forum.step-project.com/topic/12717-problems-with-fallout-stutter-resmover/

My FO3 was crashing and freezing. I changed the ini file and my problems are gone.

Good Luck

ThD17gj692 wrote: Thanks very much for responding. I haven't played FO3 in over a year because I'm waitng for Vortex to rebuild my game. I did just change " Fallout Stutter Remover.ini" (per your advice): "iDefaultMode = 1" and "fMaximumFPS =0". in anticipation of rebuilding FO3.

Happy Holidays

I just reinstalled FO3 using MO and the STEP Guide "http://wiki.step-project.com/User:Kelmych/Fallout3" Everything worked fine. You don't have to wait for Vortex if you don't want to. Also, it may take them a few months to iron out the problems that are bounded to appear.

Also, Gamerpoets has released a 13 part Youtube series on modding FO3. You may not want to use his mod list, but the setup information is very good. Also, he has the latest 'proper' way to clean the DLC esms.

Have fun. Edited December 17, 2017 by Rogdonlp

[mcdanielskh]

In response to post #56027081.

BeowulfSchmidt wrote:

 

In response to post #55826861. #55826971, #55827211, #55963086, #55981276 are all replies on the same post.

The way I understand Symbolic Links is that they are like advanced shortcuts .

Not sure how the links will be implemented but my guess is that Links to the actual mod files will get inserted into the Data directory at game startup via Vortex and when the game exits those links get deleted leaving a clean Data folder that way you can have multiple profiles and such without problems.

 

 

WRT what symbolic links are, that's pretty much correct. To running programs, at least with regard to opening, reading and writing contents, they are the file to which the link points.

 

Honestly, if I were doing this, I'd be tempted to investigate making the Data folder itself a link, and have separate "Data" folders for each profile, then fill each of those profile data folders with links to the individual files, which would be in still other locations. That way, switching profiles is a matter of changing the Data directory link, and not copying. The heavy lifting (relatively speaking) of filling up a profile data folder with the appropriate stuff would be handled interactively with the user, rather at game start up time.

 

I haven't done much with links though, so I don't know the performance characteristics, and how well links to links to links are handled.

Sure, I agree. Anything to keep/ or return the data folder to "Stock" just makes good Sense. I would like to believe that they are pursuing this effort in Vortex is some manner maybe like what you suggested. Like you, I don't know a lot about links or how they are going to use or not use them. I just hope its better then NMM was.

[Galschar]

I can't wait for Vortex to be available so I can start modding Fallout 4. I am currently testing mods so I can make a mod setup list but I would like to use Vortex as the mod manager when I start playing the game :) Edited December 18, 2017 by Galschar

[JimmyRJump]

There must be something wrong with me, but I'm actually looking forward to this. One of the things I hope (and almost pray) for is that the plug-ins list in Vortex has the possibility to be viewed alphabetically so that someone like me who's always hovering near the max allowed plug-ins can find a plug in an instant...

[Syfexx]

In response to post #56028266. #56029941, #56037291, #56037296, #56037301, #56037306, #56037311, #56041476 are all replies on the same post.

ErusPrime wrote:

With the new mod manager will there be functionality for distributed modpacks via nexus? I know developers don't want third party distribution but nxm is the distribution. The entire system is already in place to have curated lists of mods and configurations that doesn't violate the distribution requirements of the author and gives a nice little one click instead of having to download manually, merge and patch, load order, CTD, google it, find nothing helpful, ask on reddit/discord/forums, get told to google it, say f*#@ it and go play something else.

Ethreon wrote: Mod packages are not allowed according to the rules, not because of technical limitations.

ErusPrime wrote: I feel like you don't understand what I mean when I say mod pack. What I mean when I say mod pack is that nexus has the technology in place to create curated collections of mods without changing distribution. Say I want all the Sim Settlements mods. I go to each page, hit download, configure and load order and all that stuff. With a collection, you only have to distribute the links. A list of those links in a format readable by vortex. One click, all the mods, no broken rules.

ErusPrime wrote:

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ErusPrime wrote:

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ErusPrime wrote:

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ErusPrime wrote:

I think I just found a bug.

Ethreon wrote: If you are posting, press Submit once and wait. This isn't a bug, just server lag.

Mod packs are not allowed, regardless of what you want to call them or how you think they should be done. Even if they were to pursue this and now allow it, what you want would simply not work.

Why wouldnt it work ? i cant see how a collection of mods that work together that can be downloaded with the click of a single button wouldnt work? i doubt any author would have problems letting ppl link their mods for a vortex readable format.

[tajetaje]

OK, this is kind of a repost/summation of all the "modpack" comments so far but here it goes:

It seems that the most functional application of this idea is to have a simple text file or the like, formatted so that vortex can read it, with direct download links that could simply be fed into vortex's download manager. A simple handler for mods that have been removed is all that might be required to address the problem of pulled mods. I, as a semi-decent programmer, see no issue with this whatsoever, nor a rule conflict present.

[Behelit79]

In response to post #56088421.

tajetaje wrote: OK, this is kind of a repost/summation of all the "modpack" comments so far but here it goes:
It seems that the most functional application of this idea is to have a simple text file or the like, formatted so that vortex can read it, with direct download links that could simply be fed into vortex's download manager. A simple handler for mods that have been removed is all that might be required to address the problem of pulled mods. I, as a semi-decent programmer, see no issue with this whatsoever, nor a rule conflict present.

Don't know, all this "modpack" thing seems to me just an extreme lazy feat. No offense but there is already an horde of people that doesn't even read mod descriptions, give them a list with just direct download links and they wouldn't even visit the mods pages anymore.