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Zaldir

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  1. Page two of Gamer.no 's interview with Todd Howard (Translation in the spoiler):

     

     

     

    How many characters can you kill? Is it possible to go on killing spree and wipe out entire cities?

    - Yes, you can wipe out virtually entire cities. I think there is one thing that everyone says that they will do, but nobody does. And it takes us months of development to make it possible. But yeah, we try to facilitate this as good as possible.

     

    In Oblivion, it was possible to find a unique unicorn. Is there such a thing in Skyrim too, such as an abominable snowman?

    - I will not reveal every easter egg of the game here! But yes, we have hidden content, and it's not a unicorn.

     

    Morrowind and Oblivion had huge development community among the players. Is there anything they have created which you have chosen to integrate into Skyrim?

    - Yep, a lot actually. Much of what goes on the balance sheet. For example, where quick progress should be, or how difficult the game is. One modification we've learned a lot from is actually very simple, and played on how archery works. It made bows harder to draw, but made them deal more damage. That is something you'll notice in Skyrim.

     

    In Oblivion game performance began to decline after a while. Have you fixed this?

    - This is actually something we sorted out with an update at Oblivion. I feel that we have much better grip on the platforms we are developing now. There is still a game people can come to play over 500 hours, and it is a challenge for us. We are much better, but can not guarantee that you can play so long without problems.

     

    Do you have core attributes such as strength and endurance in addition to the more specific?

    - Okay, so you have 21 different minor attributes. Then there are three core attributes: magic, health and stamina. A fan can come to say "you removed my eight core capabilities," and I reply "what do you want?". "I must have intelligence, because it affects my magic." Well, now you have a simple statistic of magic. Do you want to increase your skills in magic as you put points in magic, you do not have to detour through intelligence.

     

    Skyrim will be the first involvement many have with The Elder Scrolls series. Do you do anything to make the start of the series smoother?

    - We assume always that you have not played any of our previous games. All games are a game of their own. I think that this is easier to get into because of the way it starts. Many are probably introduced to our games because they are nice first-person games, is accustomed to the Call of Duty and thinking "alright, I will try role playing." Our experience is that these can handle the depth after a few hours.

     

    Do you have anything gameplay-wise outside of the game? For example, through websites or iOS applications.

    - This is something we've thought a bit about, and are currently playing around with.

     

    Is it possible to buy a house?

    - It is possible to buy a currently unspecified number of houses.

     

    Will the narrowing of the core characteristics make it easier to combine, for example, sword fighting with magic? Is it easier to be a hybrid?

    - It's up to you! You spend your points as you will, but to upgrade the various minor attributes through the new system, you need to have a certain number of points in the attribute. If you want to have the most awesome features you need to invest quite a bit in them. What our system first and foremost do is let you change your mind.

     

    How are sword fighting? Can you choose to hew to the left or right?

    - Yes, you choose the direction with the control stick. It is also possible to perform different combo attacks, jump back and stuff.

     

    Do you get special skills by upgrading an attribute or gaining a level?

    - It's by upgrading attributes. You invest points in them, and given the opportunity to select various special attacks and such things. It is basically like a regular skill-tree, just that there are certain requirements before you can open various tricks. What you typically do is to check for a special attack you like, before deciding whether to use, for instance the sword more often to unlock it.

     

    In previous games you could increase skills by casting "unlock door" fifty times on a door, and the like. Is this still possible?

    - We have resolved most of the issues. Some of the qualities we have, for example, rid of, like "Athletics" and "Acrobatics". For who creates a character and think "I'll role-play a guy who runs"? Much of the repetitive action program is usually just removed.

     

    How much freedom, the new game engine Gamebryo their counter?

    - Many believe Gamebryo is a game engine, it does not - it's a foundation. When we used it for Fallout 3 and Oblivion, we did a lot of graphics work with it, now we're doing everything our self. We notice it most in flexibility. If we want to add new magic effects, we have far more leeway for it now. We also have a new system to make trees now. We previously used Speed ​​Tree, which has been replaced with our own system that allows us to create more detailed flora.

    - a lot of so-called "middleware" is very good, and I like it well. We use such as Havok physics engine yet. The problem is that they must create solutions that work for everyone and we want something that is tailor-made for us in the greatest possible extent.

     

    Can you remove the enemy's limbs?>

    - What should I say? Yes, there is a kind of system, but not like in Fallout 3

     

    Can you change your gender?

    - Changing gender? Do you mean choose? If so - yes, you can choose to be a man or woman. You can not change your sex later on.

     

    Would like to have sex huge impact on the game?

    - There will be some differences, but they are small. Some characters behave differently, but it will pretty much be the same game.

     

    Does the game change once you reach a really high level of experience, or do you just do more damage? Have you introduced any new systems for this?

    - The game changes! This was something we wanted to change, and is part of the reason why we introduced these special skills. There were special skills in Oblivion as well, four for each property, but they were unlocked automatically. In addition, there are a lot of new magic and the dragonshouts, so it will be very different.

     

    In the previous games shared many characters on the same voice acting. Have you improved it?

    - Definitely. We are continuously working on this since Morrowind and it was better in both Oblivion and Fallout 3 We have many more voice actors this time.

     

    How do actors react to this? Will they engage more?

    - Yes, it's something we've noticed. We can imagine, "Liam Neeson is a wonderful father to game shape," and actually be able to get with Liam Neeson in the team. It is probably because the series has become more known, but video games have generally been given more leeway in the collective consciousness. For many actors, it is cool to do voice acting for video games, and it's not about money. It's good art, and the agents tell them that it's good for their career.

     

    Can you say something about who we hear?

    - Well, Max von Sydow's announced. We will reveal a lot in the future, and you will probably be pleasantly surprised. I say this not just as a publicity stunt. Role list looks really interesting.

     

    Have you changed anything in the user sitting that you have not mentioned?

    - You have such as how the accused works when you sneak. Previously you only the extent to which you are discovered, now you see what mode the enemies are in, among other things, whether they are suspicious or aggressive. This is affected by sneaking your property.

     

    Are there children in the game?

    - Yes, there are children in the game.

     

    Can they be turned unconscious?

    - No, they can not be unconscious. This system is like in Fallout 3

     

    The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim published 11 November for PC, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3

    We watched the game at an event in Salt Lake City, USA. The trip there and stay was paid by developer Bethesda Softworks.

     

     

  2. The second part of Gamer.no 's interview with Todd Howard:

     

     

    Translation:

     

     

    SALT LAKE CITY (Gamer.no): We have just participated in an extensive press event sponsored by the American game publisher Bethesda Softworks. Here, we were able to look at alternative Prey 2 for the first time, in addition to talking with a veteran of the game's developers. The trip gave us the opportunity to finally play Rage though.

     

    The most anticipated, however, was the view of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, the sequel to the huge success, Oblivion. It gave us plenty of information about one of the biggest releases, and even better was when we got to take part in a one-hour question session with the game's producer - Todd Howard. Last week we published the first part of the massive group interview, here you have part two.

     

    Does the seasons change? Another thing: when you used the bow before you had a zoom effect, and that time went slower as you would shoot. Are these special abilities?

    - The seasons do not change, just the weather. In relation to the Archery-system the mentioned are two different abilities. They also have different levels so that you can get different degrees of zoom or slowdowns.

     

    Are there mounts in the game?

    - There are boats, but you can not sail them. In relation to horses and other mounts, it is something we want, but we are still experimenting with how. We definitely won't exclude them, but we will ensure that they add something to the game. Horses have evolved a lot in games, and we will do it properly if we choose to include them.

     

    What about factions in this game?

    - This we do not talk about yet.

     

    What was the idea behind designing skill tree look like constellations?

    - I worked with the interface and would take a step away from Excel spreadsheets and the typical system we find in RPGs. So I tried a number of options, including one where you look over your right shoulder to look at your weapons, left shoulder to check out the magic and the stars to see who you are. It was the foundation. In the previous Elder Scrolls games, we have also had the asterisk, and we would gather all these into one system.

     

    Can you say a bit about the differences between the caves?

    - We still make them using tile sets, and it's something we've done since Terminator: Future Shock. The difference is that we have become better at it. We have been better to make the environment more organic and uses several building blocks. There are many types of caves in the game: Overgrown moss caves and ice caves are a few of them. We also have a cave inside a glacier and Imperial fort. Altogether there are probably five or six general construction sets, but within them there is much variation.

     

     

    How do you design the game now compared to Oblivion?

    - In Oblivion we let the visual designers take care of the caves, also we had a couple of specific "level designers" who went over them afterwards. There was nothing wrong with them, but they could have been better. So now we have eight-nine who are really talented. At last count we had about 120 real caves, and more than 100 common points of interest outside. The game is actually too big.

     

    Is there a set number of dragons in the game?

    - No, there is an unlimited number of dragons. One of our designers actually put into a random event I came by, where I ended up being chased by three days and I thought "who the hell did this?". I felt like Frodo in Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers and was really frightened. So I asked him to remove it. But no, dragons are generated automatically (in addition to that there are a number of specific dragons, of course).

     

    Are all dragons aggressive towards the player?

    - All dragons speak, it's actually what they do when they are spouting fire. Fighting games is debating for these creatures. There are some dragons who speak the "common tongue" and make themselves understood to people. I will not divulge more right now.

     

    Can you say something about the fauna in the game? We've seen fish in the rivers and dragons, are there other animals?

    - Yes! We have a couple of designers who only work with "world interaction." Say you lose a sword. It happened once before we let you zoom in on the weapons that I would inspect the appearance of a sword. So I throw it on the ground, and before I know it it's one that picks it up and give it back to me because he likes me. Another example of world interaction is how we have wolf packs that hunt mammoths, and it takes us fifteen minutes to implement something like that.

     

    When you killed the dragon you said you had to take his soul. Can you elaborate on this?

    - It's a very interesting topic, but I am unfortunately not allowed to talk about it yet!

     

    Why did it take five games before we got to see dragons?

    - Everyone asks us about - multiplayer and dragons. For one thing, we think that it is a bit cliché. We have never seen a game dealing with dragons as Jurassic Park dinosaurs handles. We would do it properly. What happens if they chase me? How does a city if I take it with me there? How does it feel to fight a dragon? When we first decided to include them, Skyrim was the right setting.

     

    Can you say a bit about the factions and reputation system?

    - This is also something we do not talk about yet.

     

    Is there a skill for voice capabilities, such as persuasion game in Oblivion?

    - It's a skill for it, but there is no such persuasion wheel. We do not talk much about it yet, but I can say that it is a far simpler system and not a mini-game.

     

    How do you lockpicking?

    - It is a mini game for it. I hate the concept of mini-games! "It's also a mini game for battle!". What I mean is that if it is a skill for it so there must be some kind of interaction into the picture, so it is not a roll.

     

    Inventory system looks very good, but can you compare objects?

    - Right now there is support for it, but it is a bit halfway through. You will see green and red arrows indicating whether items are up-or downgrades, but you have to compare objects individually. We want to organize it in a list where you see all the objects that are better than your current one.

     

    Can you say something about Alchemy? Is it improved from Oblivion?

    - It's improved, but we choose to elaborate on it at a later date.

     

    What can you say about the game's cities? In Fallout 3 a screenshot from cities were very iconic. In Oblivion, they were less recognizable. Have you worked with this?

    - Definitely! We have five major cities, and they are very, very unique. Have you seen the trailer? There you will see a couple of them. Furthermore, we have nine different regions, each ruled by its earl. Five of these are cities, and four with some smaller villages. It's probably eight or nine small towns combined.

     

    What items are found, are they random or fixed?

    - We vary it. Sometimes we want to give you a special item that fits with the area you are in. Sometimes you get random objects that match the level of the area you are in, like in Fallout 3 The enemies will drop a corresponding amount of different items as in our other games.

     

    You have talked about that the dialogue system is simplified, and that one gets much of the backstory by passive conversations. Can you say more about this?

    - One thing we've noticed is that few wants to lose something, then we will arrange it so often that you have a dialogue choices that are like "Do you want to hear my life story?". Sometimes they give you the background story of a cave for instance, and then we feel it is better to present it as a normal conversation that you can only listen to.

     

    Does crime work in the same way as in Oblivion, with burglary and theft and such?

    - It's a little different, they share many similarities, which I unfortunately can not talk about yet.

     

    Is there a way to determine the characteristics and weaknesses of different monster?

    - In relation to the interface - no. We try to collect that into books. For example you can find literature about the various enemies that give you information about their weaknesses. We try to package it into a more gentle way than "this is stronger, it is weaker" like many games do.

     

    Can you finally sleep in someone's bed when they are dead?

    - This is actually on our to-do list, and I have personally suggested it!

     

    Have you considered being able to ride on dragons?

    - Have we considered it? Yes. We allow it right now? No. But we can come to support it at some point.

     

     

  3. Translation:

     

     

    SALT LAKE CITY (Gamer.no): We have just participated in an extensive press event sponsored by the American game publisher Bethesda Softworks. Here, we were able to look at alternative Prey 2 for the first time, in addition to talking with a veteran of the game's developers. The trip gave us the opportunity to finally play Rage though.

     

    The most anticipated, however, was the view of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, the sequel to the huge success, Oblivion. It gave us plenty of information about one of the biggest releases, and even better was when we got to take part in a one-hour question session with the game's producer - Todd Howard. Last week we published the first part of the massive group interview, here you have part two.

    Does the seasons change? Another thing: when you used the bow before you had a zoom effect, and that time went slower as you would shoot. Are these special abilities?

    - The seasons do not change, just the weather. In relation to the Archery-system the mentioned are two different abilities. They also have different levels so that you can get different degrees of zoom or slowdowns.

     

    Are there mounts in the game?

    - There are boats, but you can not sail them. In relation to horses and other mounts, it is something we want, but we are still experimenting with how. We definitely won't exclude them, but we will ensure that they add something to the game. Horses have evolved a lot in games, and we will do it properly if we choose to include them.

     

    What about factions in this game?

    - This we do not talk about yet.

     

    What was the idea behind designing skill tree look like constellations?

    - I worked with the interface and would take a step away from Excel spreadsheets and the typical system we find in RPGs. So I tried a number of options, including one where you look over your right shoulder to look at your weapons, left shoulder to check out the magic and the stars to see who you are. It was the foundation. In the previous Elder Scrolls games, we have also had the asterisk, and we would gather all these into one system.

     

    Can you say a bit about the differences between the caves?

    - We still make them using tile sets, and it's something we've done since Terminator: Future Shock. The difference is that we have become better at it. We have been better to make the environment more organic and uses several building blocks. There are many types of caves in the game: Overgrown moss caves and ice caves are a few of them. We also have a cave inside a glacier and Imperial fort. Altogether there are probably five or six general construction sets, but within them there is much variation.

     

     

    How do you design the game now compared to Oblivion?

    - In Oblivion we let the visual designers take care of the caves, also we had a couple of specific "level designers" who went over them afterwards. There was nothing wrong with them, but they could have been better. So now we have eight-nine who are really talented. At last count we had about 120 real caves, and more than 100 common points of interest outside. The game is actually too big.

     

    Is there a set number of dragons in the game?

    - No, there is an unlimited number of dragons. One of our designers actually put into a random event I came by, where I ended up being chased by three days and I thought "who the hell did this?". I felt like Frodo in Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers and was really frightened. So I asked him to remove it. But no, dragons are generated automatically (in addition to that there are a number of specific dragons, of course).

     

    Are all dragons aggressive towards the player?

    - All dragons speak, it's actually what they do when they are spouting fire. Fighting games is debating for these creatures. There are some dragons who speak the "common tongue" and make themselves understood to people. I will not divulge more right now.

     

    Can you say something about the fauna in the game? We've seen fish in the rivers and dragons, are there other animals?

    - Yes! We have a couple of designers who only work with "world interaction." Say you lose a sword. It happened once before we let you zoom in on the weapons that I would inspect the appearance of a sword. So I throw it on the ground, and before I know it it's one that picks it up and give it back to me because he likes me. Another example of world interaction is how we have wolf packs that hunt mammoths, and it takes us fifteen minutes to implement something like that.

     

    When you killed the dragon you said you had to take his soul. Can you elaborate on this?

    - It's a very interesting topic, but I am unfortunately not allowed to talk about it yet!

     

    Why did it take five games before we got to see dragons?

    - Everyone asks us about - multiplayer and dragons. For one thing, we think that it is a bit cliché. We have never seen a game dealing with dragons as Jurassic Park dinosaurs handles. We would do it properly. What happens if they chase me? How does a city if I take it with me there? How does it feel to fight a dragon? When we first decided to include them, Skyrim was the right setting.

     

    Can you say a bit about the factions and reputation system?

    - This is also something we do not talk about yet.

     

    Is there a skill for voice capabilities, such as persuasion game in Oblivion?

    - It's a skill for it, but there is no such persuasion wheel. We do not talk much about it yet, but I can say that it is a far simpler system and not a mini-game.

     

    How do you lockpicking?

    - It is a mini game for it. I hate the concept of mini-games! "It's also a mini game for battle!". What I mean is that if it is a skill for it so there must be some kind of interaction into the picture, so it is not a roll.

     

    Inventory system looks very good, but can you compare objects?

    - Right now there is support for it, but it is a bit halfway through. You will see green and red arrows indicating whether items are up-or downgrades, but you have to compare objects individually. We want to organize it in a list where you see all the objects that are better than your current one.

     

    Can you say something about Alchemy? Is it improved from Oblivion?

    - It's improved, but we choose to elaborate on it at a later date.

     

    What can you say about the game's cities? In Fallout 3 a screenshot from cities were very iconic. In Oblivion, they were less recognizable. Have you worked with this?

    - Definitely! We have five major cities, and they are very, very unique. Have you seen the trailer? There you will see a couple of them. Furthermore, we have nine different regions, each ruled by its earl. Five of these are cities, and four with some smaller villages. It's probably eight or nine small towns combined.

     

    What items are found, are they random or fixed?

    - We vary it. Sometimes we want to give you a special item that fits with the area you are in. Sometimes you get random objects that match the level of the area you are in, like in Fallout 3 The enemies will drop a corresponding amount of different items as in our other games.

     

    You have talked about that the dialogue system is simplified, and that one gets much of the backstory by passive conversations. Can you say more about this?

    - One thing we've noticed is that few wants to lose something, then we will arrange it so often that you have a dialogue choices that are like "Do you want to hear my life story?". Sometimes they give you the background story of a cave for instance, and then we feel it is better to present it as a normal conversation that you can only listen to.

     

    Does crime work in the same way as in Oblivion, with burglary and theft and such?

    - It's a little different, they share many similarities, which I unfortunately can not talk about yet.

     

    Is there a way to determine the characteristics and weaknesses of different monster?

    - In relation to the interface - no. We try to collect that into books. For example you can find literature about the various enemies that give you information about their weaknesses. We try to package it into a more gentle way than "this is stronger, it is weaker" like many games do.

     

    Can you finally sleep in someone's bed when they are dead?

    - This is actually on our to-do list, and I have personally suggested it!

     

    Have you considered being able to ride on dragons?

    - Have we considered it? Yes. We allow it right now? No. But we can come to support it at some point.

     

     

  4. Rofl GI took the post that i linked yesterday, moreover you forgeted that there will be friendly dragons. On this point i think they said somewhere that you can speak with hostiles NPC so why do they precise "to the point of holding conversations with the player" when they talk about firendly dragons... That's strange... And will worry me...

     

    I realy hope that the "avenging god immediately lightning bolts your face off" for harming children will be in :thumbsup: But personaly i would rather see church falling on the player (as the old Dunjon Master that i am :P)

     

    I did not forget it, we already knew it. :D

     

    I guess you can talk to a dragon, and then when the conversation ends, the dragon will attack you?

  5. But since the Devs use the UESP as cannon, we can assume these dragons comes from Akavir as well, just like the ones that came to Cyrodiil before did. :) (Since they have "returned"...)

     

    Just an interesting excerpt from Mysterious Akavir:

    Ka Po' Tun is the "Tiger-Dragon's Empire". The cat-folk here are ruled by the divine Tosh Raka, the Tiger-Dragon. They are now a very great empire, stronger than Tsaesci (though not at sea). After the Serpent-Folk ate all the Men, they tried to eat all the Dragons. They managed to enslave the Red Dragons, but the black ones had fled to (then) Po Tun. A great war was raged, which left both the cats and the snakes weak, and the Dragons all dead. Since that time the cat-folk have tried to become the Dragons. Tosh Raka is the first to succeed. He is the largest Dragon in the world, orange and black, and he has very many new ideas.

     

    "First," Tosh Raka says, "is that we kill all the vampire snakes." Then the Tiger-Dragon Emperor wants to invade Tamriel.

     

     

  6. So - as I thought - there is no official source saying "dragons came from Akavir" (I will not consider an UESP page an official source)? It seems to me that too many people see "dragons lived on Akavir" and draw a conclusion that the tamrielic ones had to come from there...

     

    Well, you may not think of it as official, but Bethesda do. :P

     

    They use UESP to find the lore of previous games, so I would say it's quite cannon.^^

  7. Dragons are a "believed-to-be-extinct" Akaviri race. Their population in Akavir was killed by the Tsaesci, whereas the dragons in Vvardenfell were overrun by the invading cliff racers. (Akavir is also known as the "Dragon Land" because it's the origin of Dragons.)

     

    Learn about the land of Akavir and the lore & stories about the Dragons.

  8. You can buy the GameInformer Magazine at Gamestop stores. :)

     

    Don't have gamestop stores in australia, where else could I get it?

    norway has gamestop stores I know because im norwegian Rogaland/sandnes/hommersåk

     

    vet ikke hvor du bur da :-P men er normalt gamestop butikker i kjøpesentre gameinformer kan jo kjøper på 7eleven også da :-) eller noen annen som mixen butikk :-)

     

    You're answering to a 5 month old post^^

    And he lives in Australia, so Gamestop stores in Norway won't help much.. :P

  9. Speaking of the undead I just installed the mod, gates of aesogard or what ever its called. :)

     

    aah, I beta tested that - what a great mod!

    ...Haven't tried it after it was released though. :P

  10. Also no finishing moves. That would have been a good idea.

     

    Personally, I'm looking forward to the inclusion of finishing moves. Mostly just because of assassinations. It always bothered me the only thing I was able to do with the Blade of Woe (during A Knife in the Dark) on Rufio was do a pitiful slash. In future play-throughs, I just ended up shooting him with a bow.

    There are finishing moves, but not finishing attacks if you know what I mean.

    Your character may do a special animation for the killing blow, instead of a normal attack.

  11. No game will ever have 100% stability, as TheSkyrimBlog indicated.

     

    But with a new engine, made in-house at Bethesda (yes, it's a rewritten GameBryo Engine, but every key feature is new^^) I think they have better chances of finding and fixing stability/performance issues, and they can more easily tweak the engine to suit things better. :)

  12. I think this is a great idea, and I think that if a Nexus was made for it, the community around M&B would grow a lot, and people would be coming here instead of the MBRepository! :)

     

    Looking at the Warband list of mods, there are around 150 finished mods in total, which is very few, but I do think it would grow if a Nexus was made for it.

    One of the main reasons there are so few finished mods is because of compatibility between them. Most mods are not compatible with each other, and has to be run as separate modules (Which is made extremely easy with the module manager of the game^^).

    However, there are compilations of most, if not all mods out there, combining the most popular ones into one fully compatible one! :D

     

    At least I think a Mount & Blade Nexus (Both Warband and Vanilla) would be more successful than that of the DANexus, not that it's so hard to beat DA though.^^

  13. The default name is still Bendu Olo.

    GameRant have somehow mistaken Dovahkiin for a name, instead of what it really is, a group of people who can consume the soul of a dragon, and use dragonshouts. This just proves that we can not trust in everything that is listed on their list, since they have clearly not been paying attention at all.. :P

     

    For instance:

     

    "Weapon skills have been replaced by perk trees." - This is not true. Perks is an addition to weapons skills. Weapon skills are still in, as "One Handed" & "Two Handed".

     

    "If you land a clean hit on a foe, they will take additional damage over time." - This is quite misleading. What they are talking about, is a perk for axes.

  14. Skyrim's got natural looking women, and Bethesda is based in America.. I'd say 18+ ^^

     

     

    We need more games made in Scandinavia guys! Full nudity and gore at 15+!! :P

     

    Are you sure? My copy of Demon's Souls says 17+ on it for "blood and violence" and I'm from Sweden, but I barely thought about the gore when I played it so it couldn't have been that bad.

     

    It was just a joke. :P

    It would have been like I said if the ratings was controlled by Scandinavians. :)

  15. Okay, so every mob is invisible, but that's quite a minor deal.

     

    It's always night, which makes the invisible mobs a little worse...

     

    The core of my castle is gone, and with it, my ENTIRE storage... Any reason why exactly these blocks are gone?

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