Trying to understand

[Zanderat]

20 July Update: Based on feedback we've received from mod authors who would like to have some but not all of their mod files deleted, we're now offering partial deletion requests based on this form, subject to the 5 August deadline.

 

This changes nothing. Mod authors have always been able to delete any mod, up until the 5 August deadline. This is not an update as stated. Maybe it is a change in the form with a wall of text attached.

 

I am not a mod author but a mod user. I also try to help people with their game.

With the changes and prevaricating that is being put forward, I find that I cannot continue what I have been doing in the past. I will still visit the site, but I can no longer support the site.

Actually, you are quite wrong. Since the announcement, authors have only had the choice of deleting ALL their mods or leaving ALL their mods. Now with this change, they can choose which mods to delete or keep up until August 5th.

[MarchinBunny]

 

 

The point isn't your original context. The point is that even your own reference is using an example that allows authors to delete their content, like everyone does with a single exception.

 

Your demands for "reasons" is therefore baseless, but in the spirit of this ongoing thread, let me give you some:

1. I may have discovered a security issue in my mod. Many games run in privileged space for various reasons, and mods can have access to that space.
2. I may have included something embarrassing in my current version, such as comments I forgot to delete.
3. I have the right to be forgotten, and that includes my mod.
4. I may don't want to provide old versions of my mod because I want to support new developments in the modding scene and remove the option for supporting old stuff.
5. I may choose to license my mod to a hosting service that gives me a greater donation share to what my current hosting service does.
6. I may have accidentally included copyrighted content without permission from the original authors.
7. I have seen many authors uploading a file, and re-uploading a few moments later. Something clearly went wrong. There's absolutely no reason not to delete such mistakes.

 

Just because I referenced youtube doesn't mean you need to point out they allow content creators to delete their videos, when I never once even suggested they couldn't. You are just saying something I am already aware of. Plus, youtube isn't the same as Nexus, it's not an apples to apples comparison. A better comparison would be something like Curseforge. In which case, they do allow you to also delete your files ... but there is a pretty big difference. Minecraft mods rarely break mod lists. The only time such a thing could is if it's a library mod that another mod relies on (mind you when you load up minecraft it literally tells you the mod is missing it). The only other time a mod missing could cause problems is in cases where the mod list in particular heavily relies on it and there are a lot of recipe changes involving it.

 

Another difference is ... the mod authors over there don't typically delete their mods. Go on any mod page, go to the files section and scroll down at all the different versions of the mod still up. Alphas, betas, full releases ... all still there. Where as here, it's not that uncommon for mod authors to delete the previous version after uploading a new one. It's also far less rare for mod authors to just fully delete their entire mod over drama. Has happened, but definitely not as often as here.

 

Point being is the mods for BGS games in particular are very different and more finicky when you just remove one from your load order due to patches that typically need to be made for such a list to work properly. And I am going to be frank ... I think a big part of this decision in forcing archiving is due to trust issues, as in ... because of the past and the way mod authors have done things, it's very hard to trust them that they will not continue to do it. Especially considering there ARE mod authors here who just hate the idea of collections entirely. There are even a few mods that are removed literally saying that is the reason rather than not being able to delete their mods.

 

Now to discuss the reasons you are giving.

 

1. If you find a security issue, and it's soon after you released the file, it's unlikely it's going to be in any collections that quickly and remain accessible. If you find this security issue later, where many have already downloaded the mod ... at that point it really doesn't matter, it's already being used regardless. Your best option in that case would be to contact Nexus, and let them know of the circumstances, and maybe they can remove it and help notify collection curators. But I am going to say, most mods would not create a "security" issue, at least not by accident.

 

2. So? I don't really understand what you think someone would include in a mod that would be that embarrassing. Seems like an absurd reason. Just don't do it lmao. And if you do ... put something embarrassing in your mod that you didn't mean to leave in ... then contact Nexus and see if they can help you. They may allow you to delete it for that reason if it seems legitimate enough. But again, don't do it. That is dumb ... why would you put embarrassing crap in your mod?

 

3. You can't force people to forget, so I don't know what you even mean by this. Also ... If you want to take it back then don't offer it in the first place.

 

4. There really is no good reason to do this. I don't see how removing an older version of a mod would help in anyway for the newer version be supported in the modding scene. Plus, people will just use what they like to use ... why is that a problem. For example, if one user likes the older version of a house mod ... why is it such a problem they want to use that version? And if more people are downloading the older mod, then doesn't that suggest they like it better? Removing the old version doesn't change that, all it does is irritate people because now you are trying to force them to only use the version you want them too. And then it just leads to other people sharing the older mod through other ways like uploading it somewhere else.

 

5. BS ... I can't even think of a single hosting service that even does that. Nexus is the only modding source that I am aware of that actually donates to mod authors. And licensing? Since when do mod authors give out licenses? In most cases hey would just upload the thing to both places to double dip.

 

6. Contact nexus and I am sure they will help you with it. Like .. I don't understand why you seem to think they would keep files under any circumstance ... they literally said otherwise and files would still be removed in such cases. It's like you all ignore everything that is said.

 

7. If it was reuploaded right away, it will be inaccessible anyway. Again, it be unlikely someone would add it to a collection within such a short period of time. And even if someone did and it didn't work .. they would find out as soon as the tested the collection and would then look to fix it. Meaning it's not even likely it would ever stay in a collection if it didn't work.

 

 

 

 

You missed one.

 

8. One of the team members was found to have uploaded inappropriate images on another site and the rest of the team does does not want to be associated with that member any longer.

Referencing: Fallout: the Frontier. Would those files have been allowed to be deleted?

 

Again, nexus has specifically said they would delete mods in a case by case basis. Mods that break rules, or copyright issues .. .etc. Chances are, if there was something inappropriate in the mod ... they would have no problems allowing it to be removed.

[solonlost]

There's something I don't really understand about the functionality. It's no the opt-out (thought don't really understand why mods aren't being given an opt out either but that really isn't the main problem that I see).

 

I don't see anything about having an adequate versioning system. In other words, nexus doesn't track which version of which mod is compatible with which version of the game it's meant to mod.

 

Without a system to do this reliably, how are these collections ever supposed to actually work? Not only will they break every time there's a game update, which is largely unavoidable even if you had a versioning system (though a versioning system would be able to tell you when i's safe to update a game, or if you accidentally update, when you can resume playing because all the mods have been updated).

 

Without a reliable versioning system it seems to me that the whole collections feature will be largely useless as you have no way of knowing if the collection you select will actually work with the game version you're running. A mod that doesn't get updated, is, after all, as good as dead and will frequently break whatever collection it's a part of, and you won't know about it until you've tried installing that collection since it doesn't appear to be intended to keep track of such things.

 

The idea of collections seems like something that would save me a lot of time, but the point, without adequate version awareness, eludes me. Adequate version awareness seems like a hard prerequisite for anything like this to have a chance of actually being usable.

[showler]

If versioning is required, why would you assume it won't exist. The system hasn't even been released yet, even in beta form.

 

I mean, first of all the Collection could simply list what version it was built on. It will always work on that version. If the game is one where people cannot control the version, then they will need to use a Collection that updates with the game version.

 

For other games, it will be possible to freeze your game version to match your preferred Collection.

[MarchinBunny]

 

 

Nexus mods started in 2001/2 with one teeny who thought a fan site and later a mod sharing site would be cool. And with that, Nexus mods was born. It wasn't Nexus mods then, it was Morrowind Chronicles and TESSoucre. But it grew as more authors got together to share their mods with each other and to share what they knew. It was authors who created the foundation for nexus, and it is mod authors which keep it alive. Users are secondary and probably tertiary to the work of most mod authors.

 

 

The truth is ... if you ask anyone who has seen success within a group, they almost always will think they have contributed the most. It's a real thing, look it up. No one can seem to actually gauge their contribution as well as they seem to think they can ... and will more often than not attribute the success to themselves. And that is what I think is happening here. I think you are not really giving enough credit for all the work that has gone into a place like Nexusmods. But ... hey, I suggest you go give it a try yourself ... and maybe you will then understand.

 

Personally, I make mods for me. Not users, and certainly not for nexus. And when pressed, most authors will tell you the same. There are other sites where mod authors congregate to share our work with each other. Sites without users to tell us who and what we are. Sites where we can share what we learn and talk about mods and modding. Sites without the constant pestering of entitled users who think they are our sole reason for existence. The ONLY thing that nexus has going for it, is that it is the largest site of it's kind. But, it is certainly not the only site of it's kind. And no, I will not name them here, lest they be discovered and inundated by users like yourself.

 

 

It's fine to make them for yourself. But the moment you share them, is the moment it becomes for other users. And if you say otherwise, you are lying to yourself. There is literally no point in sharing something if you are not expecting others to use it. Also, many mod authors are quite frankly just as entitled because they think everyone owes them for their creation. The truth is no one owes mod authors anything because they were not hired to do it, they chose to do it themselves. Don't like the idea of sharing? Then stop doing it lol.

 

Finally, this current debacle isn't about much more than an aversion to Robin's duplicity. Robin has told authors since the days of Morrowind Chronicles and TESSoucre that Authors owned their work and would always have complete control over their content. Turns out, Robin lied. He has changed his mind and now feels perfectly entitled to take ownership or the content created by authors and to keep that appropriated content to improve his corporate profitability. Robin has gone from mod author, in it for fun, to entitled mod user, in it for himself and some money.

 

Nexus wouldn't have ownership of mods, they would simply have distribution permissions, literally given by the owner of the mod due to the agreement between the author and the site's ToS. It's entirely limited to this site. So to try and paint it like they are taking ownership is bullcrap and untrue.

 

​ So prattle on in your ignorance. Your posts demonstrate quite clearly you have no understanding or comprehension of the issues involved, the history behind the issues, or the people involved. They also demonstrate that you have no wish to actually understand the issues, but are here simply to troll.

 

 

You can keep calling it trolling all you like, it doesn't make it true. I am just a person who doesn't agree with you. Also, my comprehension of the issue is just fine.

[showler]

Anyone else just waiting for Aug. 5th when things will stabilize around here again?

[HadToRegister]

If versioning is required, why would you assume it won't exist. The system hasn't even been released yet, even in beta form.

 

I mean, first of all the Collection could simply list what version it was built on. It will always work on that version. If the game is one where people cannot control the version, then they will need to use a Collection that updates with the game version.

 

For other games, it will be possible to freeze your game version to match your preferred Collection.

 

 

People post these questions in the hopes that STAFF will answer them, but when you keep automatically "Answering" posts as if you're staff and know what's going on, you essentially "bury" the post where it won't be seen.

 

 

[MarchinBunny]

 

i wonder if that troll account you're communicating with is some sort of bot.

 

you will find it comments, with absolute impunity on a variety of topics that run into the tens of pages. every single time its response is 100% contrarian. doesn't matter the subject, it takes a side, ignores everything posted and denigrates every post it opposes.

it does this so often, and so consistently i really do wonder if it's some sort of automated system.

the tos claim that trolling is against the rules - yet this account seems to be somewhat immune to any kind of censure.

it amazes me that this account is there - like a virus - derailing conversations with posts of absolute nonsense, openly mocking anyone it opposes.

have a look at its history - it offers nothing other than contrarianism on every single post.

it truly is quite remarkable. like one of those twitter bots that pretend to be a living person.

 

Wow ... you are a mean person lol.

1. I am not a troll.

2. I am not a bot. Not even sure how you would think that is possible as bots are usually pretty easy to differentiate based on not typically being able to always give contextual responses. Not even going to go much further into this cause at this point you might as well be a conspiracy theorist.

3. Disagreeing isn't trolling, and I really have no idea why you constantly act like it is.

4. Context and location matters on whether or not I agree or disagree. Yes, here on Nexus on these particular subjects like this I disagree a lot because many in the thread disagree with me. But if I talk about this same exact subject, say ... on Reddit ... you will find I agree with a lot of people too because there are more people who have a similar viewpoint as me on this matter. In fact, almost any news article I read .. it seemed the most common comment below it involved how often mods vanish because of drama and how this was a much needed change.

 

Last but not least, disagreements always lead to more being said then when you agree with someone.

5. Derailing suggests I would be taking the thread off topic. But we are literally on topic, meaning it's not being derailed. Derailing a thread would be like me coming here and starting to talk about politics or some crap like that, entirely unrelated to the subject.

6. I don't really mock people. So not entirely sure what you mean. You are the one going around calling me a bot and troll, and mocking admins after they explain their position.

[LeelooMinai]

 

Â

i wonder if that troll account you're communicating with is some sort of bot.

 

 

Â

you will find it comments, with absolute impunity on a variety of topics that run into the tens of pages. every single time its response is 100% contrarian. doesn't matter the subject, it takes a side, ignores everything posted and denigrates every post it opposes.

it does this so often, and so consistently i really do wonder if it's some sort of automated system.

the tos claim that trolling is against the rules - yet this account seems to be somewhat immune to any kind of censure.

it amazes me that this account is there - like a virus - derailing conversations with posts of absolute nonsense, openly mocking anyone it opposes.

have a look at its history - it offers nothing other than contrarianism on every single post.

it truly is quite remarkable. like one of those twitter bots that pretend to be a living person.

Â

Wow ... you are a mean person lol.

1. I am not a troll.

2. I am not a bot. Not even sure how you would think that is possible as bots are usually pretty easy to differentiate based on not typically being able to always give contextual responses. Not even going to go much further into this cause at this point you might as well be a conspiracy theorist.Â

3. Disagreeing isn't trolling, and I really have no idea why you constantly act like it is.

4. Context and location matters on whether or not I agree or disagree. Yes, here on Nexus on these particular subjects like this I disagree a lot because many in the thread disagree with me. But if I talk about this same exact subject, say ... on Reddit ... you will find I agree with a lot of people too because there are more people who have a similar viewpoint as me on this matter. In fact, almost any news article I read .. it seemed the most common comment below it involved how often mods vanish because of drama and how this was a much needed change.

 

Last but not least, disagreements always lead to more being said then when you agree with someone.

5. Derailing suggests I would be taking the thread off topic. But we are literally on topic, meaning it's not being derailed. Derailing a thread would be like me coming here and starting to talk about politics or some crap like that, entirely unrelated to the subject.

6. I don't really mock people. So not entirely sure what you mean. You are the one going around calling me a bot and troll, and mocking admins after they explain their position.Â

Just to explain this to you - because you obviously donât understand why people are upset with you. You belittled everyone here who still talks about this, who isnât in agreement with your opinion by saying how pathetic we are that we still talk about this here. Yet you are continue to talk here as well again, and a lot. That was the exact moment where you lost everyone here in this thread. You made fun of us, belittle us. You undermined yourself by doing so. Yet you wonder why nobody has a serious discussion with you. The lack of self reflection is what people rubs the wrong way here. I actually think you are not trolling. I think you lack empathy and self awareness. You think you are the only reasonable person here. You arenât thou, you are ignorant. Scroll back a bit and read your first message again. Itâs funny because you are now the person that you belittled in your entry comment. Which speaks volumes about you as a person. You point at the splinter in everyoneâs eye, and yet you are blind for the wooden beam in your own eye.

[jenncave]

 

Just because I referenced youtube doesn't mean you need to point out they allow content creators to delete their videos, when I never once even suggested they couldn't. You are just saying something I am already aware of. Plus, youtube isn't the same as Nexus, it's not an apples to apples comparison. A better comparison would be something like Curseforge. In which case, they do allow you to also delete your files ... but there is a pretty big difference. Minecraft mods rarely break mod lists. The only time such a thing could is if it's a library mod that another mod relies on (mind you when you load up minecraft it literally tells you the mod is missing it). The only other time a mod missing could cause problems is in cases where the mod list in particular heavily relies on it and there are a lot of recipe changes involving it.

 

Another difference is ... the mod authors over there don't typically delete their mods. Go on any mod page, go to the files section and scroll down at all the different versions of the mod still up. Alphas, betas, full releases ... all still there. Where as here, it's not that uncommon for mod authors to delete the previous version after uploading a new one. It's also far less rare for mod authors to just fully delete their entire mod over drama. Has happened, but definitely not as often as here.

 

Point being is the mods for BGS games in particular are very different and more finicky when you just remove one from your load order due to patches that typically need to be made for such a list to work properly. And I am going to be frank ... I think a big part of this decision in forcing archiving is due to trust issues, as in ... because of the past and the way mod authors have done things, it's very hard to trust them that they will not continue to do it. Especially considering there ARE mod authors here who just hate the idea of collections entirely. There are even a few mods that are removed literally saying that is the reason rather than not being able to delete their mods.

 

3. You can't force people to forget, so I don't know what you even mean by this. Also ... If you want to take it back then don't offer it in the first place.

 

 

"Minecraft mods rarely break mod lists"

Breaking a mod list is not my problem as a mod author. It is the mod list maker's responsibility.

 

"Another difference is ... the mod authors over there don't typically delete their mods. Go on any mod page, go to the files section and scroll down at all the different versions of the mod still up. Alphas, betas, full releases ... all still there. Where as here, it's not that uncommon for mod authors to delete the previous version after uploading a new one. It's also far less rare for mod authors to just fully delete their entire mod over drama. Has happened, but definitely not as often as here."

And? Is this supposed to mean something?

 

"Point being is the mods for BGS games in particular are very different and more finicky when you just remove one from your load order due to patches that typically need to be made for such a list to work properly. And I am going to be frank ... I think a big part of this decision in forcing archiving is due to trust issues, as in ... because of the past and the way mod authors have done things, it's very hard to trust them that they will not continue to do it. Especially considering there ARE mod authors here who just hate the idea of collections entirely. There are even a few mods that are removed literally saying that is the reason rather than not being able to delete their mods."

And? That sounds definitely like a mod list maker's problem. Why should I give up my rights? If I don't ask someone to put my file(s) in their list, why would it be on me to give up my rights cause they chose to do that.

 

3. You can't force people to forget, so I don't know what you even mean by this. Also ... If you want to take it back then don't offer it in the first place.

This is your weakest argument if you could even call it that. Try saying that to an automotive maker who wishes to recall a particular vehicle. It is their right to do so.